Brian Sanders: The Third Place, Hunting with the Hadza, & Community for Our Health | MMP #206
Brian, what's going on, brother?
Speaker 2:Oh, Harry. I'm fired up.
Speaker 1:We've got places to be today.
Speaker 2:I know. Let's get through this, man. I gotta get outside and get in the heat.
Speaker 1:Yeah. We've we've got to, we've got a nice little road trip up to a hunt that we're doing together, and we thought it'd be a good idea just to do a little time capsule and talk through sort of how it all came together, why we're doing it, and then talk through some of your experiences too. So I'm excited for this one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man.
Speaker 1:Your sec your second appearance on the Meat Mafia podcast too.
Speaker 2:I love it. Thanks for having me back.
Speaker 1:So one of the things that I was excited to talk to you about is what you're doing in Austin specifically when it comes to community building. That's sort of how this hunt came together. So you reached out to us and through the Sapien Center, which is this physical location that you've created, you reached out and said, hey. We're hosting this hunt. And I was immediately like, this sounds awesome.
Speaker 1:Like, I I need to do this. And I've never been. So I was excited to go because you explained it as there's this guy who's gonna be leading us through the hunt. He's gonna teach us exactly, like, from zero to one how to actually go through it
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Walk everyone through the basics, and go along with someone who's already been on a hunt before. Like, it's such a valuable and unique experience. So, one, thanks for the invite. And two, just really curious about how you thought about starting the Sapien Center and what what was the reason behind it?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it's about community. Right?
Speaker 2:Like, sometimes I'll give a tour and I'll fall in the trap of, like, oh, we have a cold plunge and we have a sauna and we have co working. But it's like that's I mean, those are just physical things. What real people want is the community. And I started thinking about this, well, years ago, right, that I wanted to build something like this. I think every kid has a dream.
Speaker 2:Right? It's like, I'm gonna have my own clubhouse.
Speaker 1:And, you know,
Speaker 2:you're like, you grow. Totally. And you probably had a fort and a clubhouse when you're, like, 10. Right? And it's like, this is the ultimate fort and clubhouse for adults.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Where you can invite your friends over, play, do do all the fun things.
Speaker 2:Exactly. That's what we do there. We play. Right? It's like adult version of playing is doing workouts together and jumping in the cold plunge together and sitting around a fire.
Speaker 2:Like, we have a fire pit in the middle of Austin.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know? And it's like you're kind of in the city, but you're kinda not.
Speaker 1:Yeah. One of the coolest things that I've noticed about Sapien Center is when people come in from out of town, I've had so many people come up to me like, have you been to the Sapien Center place? Like, have you heard about the Sapien Center place? Like, there's like a there's a little bit of an allure about it because whether it's through social media or just like a bunch of different events being hosted there that people have seen, People are really interested in this concept of, like, getting together, creating events that are interesting and kinda outside the mainstream idea of what an event would look like, centered around booze or partying or whatever it is. So it's it's unique.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. We're not centered around that. I mean, it's mostly sober events. And, oh, we'd love to have out of town out of town Gaston.
Speaker 2:I mean, I wanna make it bigger than just the Sapien Center. It's like, alright. There's a lot of people listening that aren't gonna come to Austin, but it's like, that's why the community aspect is so important or, like, how can you build this in your own town? Right? Like, how do you cultivate this community when you don't maybe you're not gonna have all the money to do a whole savings center or the Right.
Speaker 2:Time it takes to do that. So, yeah, it's it's what we've lost, I think, in The US. Maybe in other countries, they're a little more social, community family oriented. Right. You've been to Europe probably.
Speaker 2:Yeah. You've seen, like, they they stay together forever. Right? They're Definitely. Living the houses together with the all the different generations.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:We don't do that. And so I brought this up to you quickly beforehand, that idea of a third place or third space. And this was kinda popularized at 1989 by this guy Ray Oldenburg, and we lost it. He he made this whole argument that's like, this is we've completely lost this. We used to have first place, home.
Speaker 2:Second place, work. Third place used to be a town square, a library, the town pub, the church. Right? This is where people got together, and this is one of the big reasons why I think we had a better life back then, and we lived longer. Of course, we're eating more real food and, you know, there's a lot of other factors.
Speaker 2:But if you look at the blue zones, it's like, why do these people live long? A lot of it was about the sense of community and sense of purpose and staying together. And we could get back to Blue Zones later, but the idea of a third space has been lost. Right?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. The idea of sharing experience with people who have shared values is pretty far hard to find in today's world. Like, there there are like, you were joking before we hit record, like, you know, there's Sixth Street, which is
Speaker 2:I mean, yeah.
Speaker 1:Maybe you could make the argument that everyone who's going out on Sixth Street has shared values, but the experiences are kinda lost because there's so many different, I mean, so many different variables that are just make it so much different than what you are explaining those third places would be, which is a town square, a library, a church where you're actually focused on building relationship and having deeper levels of conversation. I mean, Sixth Street
Speaker 2:I think it's good. That's the opposite. If people don't know Austin, Sixth Street is where all the bars are, and it's exact opposite of what it used to be. So it's like it's technically a third space, and you are going out after your work or you're, you know, going away from your home, but it's just just meaningless interactions. And, I mean, yeah, I don't know anyone who's had meaningful relationships on Third Street.
Speaker 2:Sure, you could take someone home for the night, but this is obviously not meaningful.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I think it's a huge part of being healthy is having community, having these, relationships. And I was also saying before we started, like, who who's the expert in community? Like, there's no one talking about we we have all the people on diet. We have all the people on the exercise and movement. We have the sleep experts.
Speaker 2:Right? We both have podcasts. Right? So we we have all these people on, but who's talking about community? Well, it's not like there's facts
Speaker 1:and theories. And who's not just talking about it building it? Because they're I mean, people want this stuff, but if people aren't building it, then it can't actually come together. So, like, kudos to you for Yeah. Going and doing it.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah. And it's it's a big endeavor. Yeah. Right? And I'm in personal debt from it.
Speaker 2:You know? It's not easy. So I understand why people have not done it, and we do have plans to go into different cities and do this. Right? So I get DMs all the time.
Speaker 2:Like, where's the next city, or can you do it here? Can you do it there? So Colorado and Florida, a lot of people have been reaching out. And if anyone's in Saint Pete, that seems to be kind of a hotbed for freedom, health, you know, just just the same wavelength of people that wanna be healthy and wanna have community, and they're just gathering in Florida and St. Pete.
Speaker 2:I don't know if you've heard about that
Speaker 1:at all. Not really. What have you what have you observed about the Sapien Center since you've started it? Like, what have been some of the highlights highlight moments where you're like, okay. This is actually turning into something?
Speaker 2:Oh, wow. Yeah. In the beginning, just, yeah, I I didn't know. It's like you if you build it, they will come.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's kind of like a whole it's like fingers crossed. And then the first event we had was last summer be when it was a construction site before it was open at all. It was KetoCon, and there was a pile of gravel, like, nothing was built. I rolled out some artificial grass, and we hung some lights. And, like, a 50 people came, and it was amazing.
Speaker 1:And I remember.
Speaker 2:You remember you ever hang up with Bill Schindler and stuff and the all that all these speakers from KetoCon, and it was so fun. Like, I I couldn't even sleep that night. I was just like, this it it worked. Were you just
Speaker 1:you must have been blown away.
Speaker 2:Absolutely blown away. It was probably one of the best nights of my whole life.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:Like, I really think about that because it was the first time that I Yeah. I just built something and it was there. I don't know if people have been married. I've not been married. But if you're the bride and the groom, you're the people of the hour, you're glad handing or you know, everywhere you go, it's like you know, it's and that's what it was like for me.
Speaker 2:Like, every minute on the dot, like, someone knew came up to me and was like, oh, this is amazing. What's you know?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I felt like I was getting married that day just like having 100 conversations and, like, it was incredible.
Speaker 1:So what type of events since that first event that was at or at not at KetoCon, but it was event event after KetoCon. What type of events have you had that have stood out as meaningful, that have brought more people into the community?
Speaker 2:Yeah. We've done a lot. We've done so many different types of events. We'd actually had one. So doctor Peter is the one taking us hunting.
Speaker 2:He's been hunting since he was, like, five years old. He started early. I mean, he's been hunting for forever, and he goes hardcore. Like, he he's the one that he'll get with a crossbow a compound bow, get, like, a bull moose, and take two days to, like, get it back home.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:Like, hike in, hike out, get half the animal back, get go back and get the rest, and go back again.
Speaker 1:Where does he go from that?
Speaker 2:He I'll go all over.
Speaker 1:Dang.
Speaker 2:Yeah. We'll talk to him this weekend, but Okay. Cool. He knows the whole thing. So we did event with him
Speaker 1:Nice.
Speaker 2:Semi recently where we he shot a deer, got a doe the night before. He was so confident he'd get one. He's just like, don't worry. We we had, like, 12 people waiting, and he's just like, I got it. And of course, he gets it, shows up, and we just take over the savings center, and we put tarps down, and we disappear the animal.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:Disappeared it. Like, all that was left was the spine.
Speaker 1:That's crazy.
Speaker 2:We had the spine and the skull left. Like, everything was used. We ate all the organs throughout the day. He explained how to skin it, get the organs out, all the, you know, the safety stuff, like, how to cut it. We I somehow, I was the chef of the day.
Speaker 2:Like, I barely got to see what was going on. I'm, like, all of a sudden, I'm a chef, and I'm smoking different deer meats. I'm doing, like, all these things.
Speaker 1:Gotta wear different hats if you're if you're the man in charge.
Speaker 2:It's fun. We learn a lot, but we ate the brains at the end. Like, he Thanks. He showed us how to crack open the skull and we got in there. We cooked them now.
Speaker 2:We we I cooked them with some butter and some lemon, a little bit of salt. It was really good. It tasted like pudding. It's like a license.
Speaker 1:What's the name for that? There I feel like there there is a name for Oh.
Speaker 2:It's a I don't know.
Speaker 1:So how'd you come across him? What was what
Speaker 2:was the story there? That's the magic of the Safeman Center. Like, if you build these communities, people come out of the woodwork. You know? It's like everything yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. All these good things have happened just by throwing stuff out in the world. Yeah. That's another thing. It's like, oh, I have a podcast.
Speaker 2:I have a Instagram. I didn't have an agenda. Well, I started making my film, Food Lies
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Which we probably talked about the first episode so people can go back.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Go go back and listen. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And check out the intro. The intro is is really, quality stuff. It took us a long time. It's on YouTube. But I just started doing these projects, and then things happen that, you know, like, people come out of the woodwork, and it's been so valuable for me.
Speaker 2:That's part of this message of communities. If you start doing something interesting that resonates with people, then they will come and find you.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's community and creation at the same time because the creation part is it's valuable for you because you're able to put your vision into reality and actually have an impact beyond just thinking about how cool it would be
Speaker 2:to have
Speaker 1:a place. But you can share those values, the great conversations, experiences like carving up a deer. I mean, that's like Mhmm. You can't you can't really find that anywhere else. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And, I mean, people are interested in that sort of thing. And, I just think it's so cool, the idea of creation. It's something that Brett and I talk a lot about with our show. You know, having done, like, 200 little over 200 episodes in a year, the our ability now to actually, like, come across people who we would never be able to come across and have a conversation with them is just on on a totally different level. And if you told us that a year ago that we would be able to have conversations with people who are just really, like, changing the world, doing really cool things, my mind would have been blown.
Speaker 1:So it's just that creation element, just acting on it, it it has gravity to it. People people come into to your world that you would never expect.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I encourage people to do that. Not everyone has to have a podcast. Yeah. I mean, there there's there are a lot of podcasts out there.
Speaker 1:Of them.
Speaker 2:And there's only so many hours in the day to listen to them. But it everyone has a passion, and it and you can do something without having a podcast or a physical space. And so before I had the savings center, I was like, I don't have a space yet, but that doesn't mean I can't do events. Yeah. So I just would have meetups, and I just use other people's spaces.
Speaker 2:Right? And then just invite people, be a organizer.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Then now what's cool about the savings center is I'm allowing other people to do that. So all of our members, they pitch me events and they can have their own event. And so there's this lady I don't know what's the proper term, girl, lady, woman, this nice female. She because I don't wanna she's not old, but you know what I mean? She's a respectable woman.
Speaker 2:She does neurographics, and she's really interested in the brain and science. And she's, like, really smart, and she does this art, like, experience with with art and drawing and your brain and goal setting and how your brain works. And it's incredible, and people love it. And she would never be able to do that unless well, she probably could. But she did I just allowed her to have it at Sapien, and that that's the type of stuff that happens is, like, well, who knows what that is?
Speaker 2:She just invented a whole new thing, and now she has a community, and they met again last night.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's that's so cool. And to your point about the community building, we've been doing a run on Tuesdays and then just grilling at our place on Saturdays and just keeping it consistent. And as long as you keep it consistent, people are dying to just have something to go to. So, I mean, I'm sure you felt that with Sapien Center.
Speaker 1:People are now probably just thirsty for more events and wanna come check out the the new, like, crazy thing that's happening in the world of alternative health.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Well, I'll tell you a story about Austin. That's kinda why I moved to Austin Yeah. Is I knew this stuff was happening, that other people were doing this. So there's this guy, Anthony.
Speaker 2:Well, there's two Anthonis that kinda that brought me here a little bit. But one of them had this coffee meetup. And every Saturday morning, this was a couple years ago, two and a half years ago, during COVID, they would just have a hangout at, like, I don't know, was it 10AM to 1PM? Mhmm. And they just bring different coffee companies in to give away free coffee, and it just grew.
Speaker 2:And it was consistent, and it was beautiful. So this is what Austin's about. I met people there that I'm still great friends with. It's incredible what you can do, and they just did it out of their place.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. The consistency is kind of the key. You need to create, like, the order so people can expect and have confidence and trust that it's gonna be there. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:But, like, to your point, like, with the run group that we started, there was a kid last week who was like, this is officially, like, a part of my week. Like, I just Mhmm. I know I'm doing this on Tuesdays, which is cool because we've probably been doing it for, like, twelve weeks. And just see I mean, seeing the impact that that can have, like, people I see the same people every Tuesday morning. Like, it's that third place concept.
Speaker 1:Right? Mhmm. Where you can share, you know, an hour or so in a different place outside of work in the home and just have that really great experience that's, builds the bond over time.
Speaker 2:I just want everyone to think of what they're passionate about
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And, like, figure out a way to do it and just be the organizer. Like, again, you don't have to have a podcast. You don't have to dedicate your life to this, but you can do something to build that community. And that's what's missing. I'm telling you, you just everyone just goes back home to their little apartment and they just live in their own little space Yeah.
Speaker 2:And it's crazy. It's like that's the best times in your life are with other people.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:I even did this thought experiment. This this goes beyond a little bit. This even into money and, like, possessions and why you don't even need to worry about that stuff. Like, I did a thought experiment of okay. What if I had an arbitrary insane amount of money?
Speaker 2:Right? What if you had a hundred million dollars? Someone just it just fell into your lap. What would you do? Like, what would your ideal day be?
Speaker 2:Like, what would it be like? Like, envision what your day would be like. Like, I don't wanna hear, like, oh, I'm in a mansion and there's, like, a yacht. I mean, some some that can be part of it maybe. But, like, what do you wanna experience?
Speaker 2:Like, what is the most ideal day?
Speaker 1:Mine personally would honestly be so similar to what I'm doing now. That's exactly
Speaker 2:what I'm saying. Right? Like, well, tell me because so Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I mean, it would I would probably have a moderately nicer place to live and, like, maybe, like, if my car is 200,000 miles, I would get a little bit of a nicer car. And then I would honestly I would do so much of the same stuff. Like, I wake up, go to the gym at, like, five or 06:00. So maybe get, like, you know, sonic cold plunge gym. Like, that's a huge part of my day.
Speaker 1:And then, I mean, I would still be doing all the same things, podcasting, working on building brands, thinking about how we can improve the food system, different projects in that in that realm. I mean, that's those are, like, all the things that I'm interested in doing and would just continue to do those. I don't think that my life would redirect all that much if I had a hundred million to put in the bank.
Speaker 2:That's what I'm saying. It's like you could skip ahead to that. It's like Yeah. I mean, it's it's fun to, yeah, try to build brand, and I'm into that too. And, you know, I wanna build some things.
Speaker 2:But, like, once I get there, I'm still gonna be doing the same things, and I'm gonna be just as happy. Yeah. But you also gotta think about so then what else? Like, what what who would you spend time with or what else would go on?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think building building community, building family, like, you know, starting a family, that that sort of thing is definitely, things that come to mind. Just trying to bring more people into the world of, like, kind of the world that we're living in where it's like you don't need to be attached to a corporate job, kind of helping people cultivate confidence in themselves and belief in themselves to start working on projects that have meaning to them. Like, one thing that's been impactful for me over the past year is, like, actually going to church and building a relationship with my pastor who's also part of this run group that I'm a part of.
Speaker 1:Like, that wouldn't leave my life at all. That would still be in it if I had a hundred million dollars.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And the, yeah, the the reason I bring that up is, like, he's taught me a lot about the importance of not only having a mentor, but also having someone to teach down to. Mhmm. So, I mean, again, these are these are all things that, like, money just doesn't even affect. Like, you can do that today.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And then what would you do for eat like, for dinner? Like, who would be there? Like
Speaker 1:The same stuff. I mean, I would I would be growing steak. I would be inviting friends over. Like, I was telling you, we do these steak Saturdays. We get a bunch of steaks from either Whole Foods or Shirttail Creek.
Speaker 1:We invite, like, five to 10 people over on Saturdays. And, I mean, we basically do that during the week anyways, but we just don't invite a whole lot of people over. But, or, like, you know, you know what the usual meals look like, ground beef and all that stuff. But, like, I really I take to this what you're talking about very much because it's how I've lived the past twelve months. Like, I left my corporate job to intentionally start, like, a fresh new life, new experience in Austin.
Speaker 1:And I was like, money aside, just, like, focus on what you wanna be doing because I'd kind of fallen into the trap of, like, thinking that I needed to save money to have these future experiences. And it was really like, no. Just start living that way as soon as you possibly can, and then the your life will start to gain traction around that stuff, and you'll see those improvements. And, I mean, I wouldn't change what I do today for anything.
Speaker 2:That's what I'm saying. I mean, the exact same thing. It's the ultimate goal, well, is to have the community. It's, like, that's what matters most when you die. Right?
Speaker 2:People say that a lot. It's like, you didn't people don't say they wanted to spend more time in the office. Yeah. That's fine. They wanna spend more time with family.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Right? What another ultimate goal in life is is to be without want. I've been thinking about this a lot lately. Like, what like, if you have there's people that have a hundred million dollars and they still have want.
Speaker 2:Right? They're just constantly, oh, I need a bigger yacht now.
Speaker 1:That's the saddest that's the saddest thing to see because you know that there's there's basically no way out of that for them at that point.
Speaker 2:Oh, they're doomed. And they'll get they'll try to get more money, and then they'll be less happy because they won't have something else that someone else has. So without want means that you probably have community. You it's not really about possessions probably. Maybe some people are obsessed with possession.
Speaker 2:I don't care. I don't have a watch. I don't have nice clothes. I don't have a nice car. I I mean, I have a old car that I like and is nice in my eyes.
Speaker 2:Yeah. But I I don't need new things. It's just about being I I'm in I'm without want now. And I'm sure. I'm not saying that I don't want anything.
Speaker 2:Right? But it's not like I'm I'm like, man, I need to get this money so that I can get this new car. I'm like, my car is great. Yeah. So I don't know.
Speaker 2:People should, like, try to find ways to do this and do thought experiments and think, like, how how can I get there now without having to have all this stuff?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Curating your lifestyle is a massive unlock. Like, trying to just put the things in your life that you're envisioning as quickly as possible. An an example of this is, I recently joined a gym on off South Congress called The Collective, and it has a really interesting group of people. It's a social club, and all these people are in the entrepreneurial space.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. And for me, I was hesitant to make the decision to actually join the club, but there was so much benefit in terms of the people who are there, like, what they were doing. They're all, like, you go in the sauna, they're completely inspiring. It's like going in the sauna at Sapien Mhmm. Or Squatch.
Speaker 1:Basically I mean, any of the communities that we're a part of in Austin, you just come across all these inspiring people, but it was a higher price tag. And so I just looked at it as an investment, but that that has now been, like, a massive part of, like, my morning routine. Like, I go over there. The community there is great. And, just being able to kinda just, like, stomach the cost and think of it as something that is an investment in, like, your lifestyle and
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Making you happy, and those things are definitely worth it.
Speaker 2:It is. And it's about the people. Again, it's like, yes, you were in a sauna, and so that is a physical thing. But what mattered was the people. And then I was thinking about the savings center or any of these places.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That it's all the same concept. It's, like, let's reverse engineer a place where people can bond and grow together. So it's like, yes, you have to have, say, a gym and a sauna and a cold plunge and co working. These are kind of just physical things that facilitate the end goal Yeah.
Speaker 2:Which is creating chance opportunities to meet people and just create like, you you can't do that if you're just home in your apartment. You need the like, I just connected with a couple of people yesterday. It's just who's showing up to the savings center. And then this other investor guy, like, showed up, and then we're hanging out, and these people are talking. Like, it's it's amazing.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And it all comes down to the community. It's the people. And sometimes, yes, you have to invest in that. But I wanted to get back to the the blue zone stuff too because Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like, this community stuff is so important. Right? It's like, why do people live long in these blue zones? And there's a guy, Dan Buener, that wrote a book about it, and his bias was vegetarianism.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right? And he went around the world trying to basically retrofit his bias into what was happening. And so he cherry picked different places and, like, cherry picked even when he went to he won't like, he even went to a place during Lent when they gave up meat. You know? It's like, no one's eating meat just for this month.
Speaker 2:Surprise. Yeah. It's like then they're crushing meat nonstop every other month of the year. Yeah. And one of these places is Sardinia and, I think oh, is it Sardinia?
Speaker 2:Yeah. There there's some Greek islands.
Speaker 1:In, Greece. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And I think Bill Schindler just went there and also my friend Mary Ruddock. I don't know if you
Speaker 1:No. I don't know who that is.
Speaker 2:She's great. She took us to Africa, which we can get
Speaker 1:into some Africa. Yeah. We'll get into it in a sec.
Speaker 2:So she she's been going around to all these blue zones and I and I went to, Nicoya Peninsula. That's in Costa Rica. It's another one of these blue zones. And all that they find is people eating animals nose to tail. And you go to these Greek islands, and these people are old.
Speaker 2:They're 90. They're actually, like, drinking and smoking, which is really weird.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:They're still but they have such a good diet lifestyle community that they're just chugging along and doing great. And they're eating all the organ meats. They're eating fat. They're, you know, they're they're just eating goats and land a sheep nose tail.
Speaker 1:And they spend so much time outside too. I mean
Speaker 2:Outside walking. Sunlight. It's all the things. It's so it's it there's all the boxes checked. Right?
Speaker 2:Yes. It's the movement. It's the outdoors. It's the food. It's real food.
Speaker 2:I actually don't care that much your ratio of plant to animal foods as long as you're eating whole foods. Right? Like, if you're if you're getting enough animal nutrition and you're avoiding all the processed foods, you can do okay. I'm not saying it's ideal, but Yeah. For me or I don't know.
Speaker 2:I think in long term, I don't I wouldn't do it with tons and tons of plant foods, but there's plenty of populations that live long and are pretty healthy eating more plant foods than animals, but they're eating all whole foods and they're eating a large source of animal nutrition.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. I think the biggest missing piece for a lot of people is the sunlight. And, like, the sunlight creates vitamin D in your body, which is an anti antioxidant. And a lot of things people talk about with plant toxicity is the oxalates and how it's inflammatory because it creates oxidation in the body.
Speaker 1:So there's probably something there where, like, if you spend more time outside, you're not gonna be as susceptible to the negative side effects or, negative consequences of eating foods that might cause some inflammation.
Speaker 2:You can handle it, and also you're eating seasonally.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:These people like, if you eat plant foods seasonally, you're not gonna get a overload of oxalates.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:You're not gonna get overload of anything. That's the whole point of seasons kind of. It's like how it works is that it changes.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And, yeah, I've kind of become acutely aware of this traveling around the world and noticing and living with these not living with these people, but staying with these people. And they, yes, they live from the land. It's like, how of course, they're gonna live long. They're eating all the whole foods. Right?
Speaker 2:They're outside. They're doing yeah. They're walking, moving, and then they have the sense of community and purpose, and they live together. And, you know, they have multigenerational families living together. And, yeah, that and it's like you they're almost doing that in spite of not eating enough animal foods.
Speaker 2:Right. Yes. Let's say Okinawa is an example, and they're it's like, that's just what they had. They they were trying to eat fish. They thought pork was a longevity food.
Speaker 2:Like, you can look it up. It's like they've regarded pork as a longevity food, but they just had a whole bunch of sweet potatoes, actually, not rice. This was before. This is, you know, in the fifties when these people were living really long and,
Speaker 1:this
Speaker 2:is the base of their diet was, like, sweet potatoes, fish, some vegetables, pork. Like, what's wrong with that diet?
Speaker 1:Yeah. I mean, it's perfectly fine.
Speaker 2:And maybe they could do better if they had more, but they probably were eating, like, really nose and tail. They do. They eat the whole fish. They eat the whole they're eating the heads. They're eating everything.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And they're they're have purpose. They're not in a box. You're not in their own little apartment box. Like, all these places, it's like more of a actual community.
Speaker 1:Yeah. The the one thing that we've kind of been just been hinting on is we have this view on health where we try to look at everything in a silo. So it's like nutrition in a silo, exercise in a silo, community in a silo, but it's this web and people will focus fixate on diet and then completely ignore the community aspect or the exercise aspect. And that's fine. You can see results.
Speaker 1:But when it all comes together, that's when you're just I mean, that's that's full health. That's when you're feeling alive. There's full meaning in your life. Your body and mind are clear. Like, that's the key.
Speaker 1:That's what people are should be striving for is not just trying to look linearly at one of these different areas of health, but tie it all together. I mean, I think that's what Austin does really well is it ties There's people here who are trying to tie all these things into the web of health, and it's not just this, like, mechanistic industrial way of looking at things where it's like, this is one area of health.
Speaker 2:That's just so important. This is kinda wrapping it all together because that's what I've noticed, and that's what happens at Savings Center. What happens around Austin is people look different. They they're magnetic. People Glowing.
Speaker 2:Glowing. People come to events, and they're like, what is going on with these people? Why is everyone healthy and fit and tan and awesome and friendly?
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's
Speaker 2:like, yeah. You you bring it all together. And I actually went to a biohacking conference for the first time. Mhmm. I'm not in that world.
Speaker 2:You know? I actually am almost the opposite of that world.
Speaker 1:I'm like, how love the the whole biohacking event.
Speaker 2:How do I not have any gadgets? Like, I don't want gadgets. I don't want all the gizmos. I wanna just eat a steak in the sun and lift some weights outside. And, yeah, totally different crowd.
Speaker 2:And then it goes to your point. These people it wasn't like I'm like, man, look at all these glowing, amazing, healthy people. It was a bunch of people that didn't look that healthy, and they're just trying to rely on yeah. Like, oh, if I just get enough blue blocking things and this ring and this thing and this machine where I sit in it, then I'm gonna be healthy. Like, no.
Speaker 2:You're missing everything.
Speaker 1:Like, that might actually be the least healthy group up there.
Speaker 2:Oh, I Like I don't wanna diss that crowd, but, it wasn't great. I found a few people.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:There was a vegan girl, actually. It
Speaker 1:was great.
Speaker 2:Very Interesting. Yeah. She was fit. It was weird.
Speaker 1:Did did you, try to convince her?
Speaker 2:Oh, we had many, many hours together. Interesting. I'm still working. We're we're gonna, I I have a phone call set up with her soon.
Speaker 1:I love it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, I wanna dive into the hunt that we're going on because that was one of the reasons I I wanted to have this podcast. And, I just wanna tie it into what you're doing at the Sapien Center. So, like, what was the impetus to schedule this one? Is this the first one you've done?
Speaker 2:Yeah. This is the first one. So it started with doctor Peter's workshop on, like, how to completely break down animal and eat the whole thing. And so the next progression was this hunt, and this is, yes, more for beginners. And I consider myself a beginner.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I've only been hunting once in Texas and then once with the Hadza. Well, it was multiple days. So, yes, this is for us to start, you know, learning. And we we went to a archery thing.
Speaker 2:You know, we were practicing. We'll use guns on this trip, but, I wanna get to where we can use a compound bow.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:And he knows all that. So, yeah, this is just dipping our toes in the water. We're gonna do another one in fall as well.
Speaker 1:Awesome. And so your past hunting experiences, have they been in Texas? Or okay.
Speaker 2:Texas and Africa.
Speaker 1:And what'd you hunt for in Texas?
Speaker 2:It was just access deer, a couple other, it wasn't whitetail season.
Speaker 1:Okay. So it
Speaker 2:was like anything but whitetail. And and sadly, I only saw whitetail.
Speaker 1:Really?
Speaker 2:We saw a few. There was, like, some, but was it red, black tails? Yeah. I don't know.
Speaker 1:So from your first hunting experience to this one, do you feel like you're gonna continue along the learning curve? Like, were there things that you were thinking about on that first hunt? Like, for me right now, this is my first hunt. Mhmm. So I've got all the questions in the world.
Speaker 1:I'm kinda just, like, throwing, you know, throwing caution in the wind. I'm just like, just go. Just show up. Like, I don't even I wanna kill an animal, but if I don't even pull the trigger, it's just about being there and and being involved and just learning. So I'm curious, like, what your first experience was like.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It was kinda like that. I didn't even know what to expect, and you are nervous about it. You're like, I don't know. Yeah.
Speaker 2:What's gonna happen? Am I gonna feel weird? Am I gonna be able to, like, pull the trigger? Am I gonna and you just gotta go with it. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like, it's hard to prepare for. I think it's one of those things you have to get reps. Not that I I know all this stuff. Like, I'm not the hunting expert, but from what I've seen is you just get the reps and then you're you're living it. You know?
Speaker 2:It's like it it's not like this guy, doctor Peter, was doing it overnight. He started at a young age, and it became, like, his thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I I mean, I'm glad to be doing with him, and he knows, like, every aspect of it. So Yeah.
Speaker 1:Whenever I'm trying something new, I try to frame it through the lens of something that I've been doing for a long time and I'm good at. So I always reference the gym. And, like, I remember, like, the first few times getting to the gym, it's like, you just gotta, like, go to the gym and just be around the people who are, like, already fit, and you'll eventually get there and learn what they do. But you just need to show up.
Speaker 2:You need to show up. And I'm I'm, like, avoid things that I'm not good at.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right? I think a lot of people do that. And, like, that's not a good way to live.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You gotta put yourself out of your comfort zone.
Speaker 1:Well, learning something new is such a it it it there is some, like, neuroplasticity Mhmm. Type of, thing going on there where you do break the mold of your existing paradigm. And I think there's so much growth and come out of just pulling yourself out of your daily routine and all this stuff and just going going in, like, head first into something new and trying to learn it. And and this, like, haunting stuff is definitely definitely gonna be it.
Speaker 2:That's it. And I did kinda throw myself in the deep end too two years ago, almost two and a half years ago with the Hadza, just to get to that because I have these things.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. I have show and tell. Let's let's see what we got here.
Speaker 2:It was crazy, though. Paul Saladino came. It was this weird thing where he went a little early, and then people know he got sick from the berries.
Speaker 1:Oh, did we not?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So we, like, crossed paths. He was supposed to continue on with us, and he went home. But it was so cool to do this, and, yeah, he did a all day hunt with them. We did we worked up to it.
Speaker 2:We spent a few days with them, and then, we did this all day hunt. We didn't bring enough water. That it it was bad. We almost brought no water.
Speaker 1:Wow. Like, what were you guys thinking?
Speaker 2:I don't know. I'm, like, looking back, like, are we insane? And they don't even need water. They're crazy. Really?
Speaker 2:They they just don't even care about water. And if they find water, they'll drink water out of the crook of a tree. There's, like, a baobab tree, and it it collects water in, you know, the crook of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And it's brown. And there was this one younger guy that was there. I think he's just going up into the male hunting group. You know? So he's probably, like, 16 or 15.
Speaker 2:And he would just climb up and, like, get a baobab, like, half of a shell, and they scoop it out, and it's just brown water. And they take a few sips, and that's what they had, like, the whole day.
Speaker 1:Wait. So how do they not need water?
Speaker 2:They I think they just have different physiology. They don't drink salt. They don't have a lot of salt. It's like they get salt from the blood. You know?
Speaker 2:Oh, wow. It's not like they have salt. They like things without salt. They just eat unseasoned meat. I had to eat basically, I ate a lot of unseasoned meat that was, like, really tough.
Speaker 1:So, I mean, there couldn't be a bigger culture shock going it going from Austin to, like, the the Middle Of Africa and going on a hunting trip. What were some of the takeaways?
Speaker 2:Crazy. It was crazy. Yeah. I learned so much. I mean, the first thing we did was eat a net that whole animal.
Speaker 2:They they already had one by the time we showed up. It was this little tick tick. It's like this little baby antelope type of thing or smaller antelope. And, yeah, they just slice it open. They take the guts out.
Speaker 2:They give them to the dogs. They have a whole pack of dogs too. They're just their buddies that come help them hunt. And they eat everything but those guts, right, that the Hadza do. And immediately, they this guy has this knife that's covered in it's just never been washed, obviously.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:This this
Speaker 2:is also during COVID, not that, like, not that I took any precautions during COVID. I was like, I'm gonna wash my hands less Yeah. During COVID. I I need, like, microbiome.
Speaker 1:Give me the terms.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And so that's how they live their life. People People are like, oh, how do they have such a good microbiome? Like, well, they have a knife that's never been washed. They're sitting in the dirt cutting open an animal Yeah.
Speaker 2:And we're eating off that knife. So they just immediately go for the liver. They cut out the liver and cut me a piece. And it's it had guts on it. It has, like, white and yellow guts on it.
Speaker 2:The knife is the oldest, dirtiest knife on the planet, and they just give it to me.
Speaker 1:What was going through your head?
Speaker 2:And I just I'm like, oh, I gotta eat it. Like, I'm just like, I'm going. I'm going. And the and I ate it, and the guy was like, oh, this dude's eating it? Like, this white dude is
Speaker 1:eating it.
Speaker 2:Because usually, this this one group we were with, we were two different groups. The first group does have contact with tourists. Okay. Right? So it's good and bad.
Speaker 2:Right? We get to see their lifestyle, and they they allow people to hunt with them and all that. But they also they'll just have tourists come by and give them candy. And so they're just kinda posting up all day, just hanging out, and then going hunting and then hanging out. And it's it's different.
Speaker 2:Right? That they're getting treats. They're getting these things. They're contact, you know, the all these tourists. So it's not, like, the full, full thing, but they also do just live the same way in a sense.
Speaker 2:Right? It's like they're not relying on candy to survive. They're, like, they have to go get food.
Speaker 1:Right. So from that experience, like, is there even any comparison between that experience and your hunting in Oh, wow. Texas?
Speaker 2:It's so different. It's so different. I mean, here, I'll I'll grab some
Speaker 1:Yeah. What do what'd you bring?
Speaker 2:So, yeah, this is an arrow. So I know not everyone's watching, but watch it on YouTube. So they make these arrows by hand. Obviously, there's feathers, there's sinew, and then they some of their arrows have metal tips. So they just roll out with their bow, which is, you know, just completely handmade bow with the sinews as the thing, and then they have, like, say, six arrows in their hand.
Speaker 2:So it's just bow kind of on the show in in the hand. No. They have it in one hand.
Speaker 1:Oh, I lost the arrowhead.
Speaker 2:There. I lost it. So they and some of the some of the arrows have just wooden tips so they'll just sharpen the tip. Wow. And that's for I think it's for birds.
Speaker 2:Oh, no. No. The birds have a a corn cob on them. They have all different arrows that have different tips for different animals. So for smaller things, it's you can just use the the wood tip, but then there's a tribe called the Dtogga, and the Dtogga are kind of the blacksmiths.
Speaker 2:And they all live in this Lake Ayase area, and there's just tons and tons of different tribes live in this one area. It's kinda last remaining hunter gatherers and pastoralists. Right? Some of them have cattle and sheep and goats and stuff. And so the the toga do blacksmiths.
Speaker 2:So they collect nails and random, like, pipes and stuff. So they'll go around to kind of more of civilization, find random bits of metal, and then they have, you know, the bellows that that blow the air
Speaker 1:on the fire.
Speaker 2:They make those out of, like, a cow's stomach. And they just figured out how to blacksmith using the bellows and
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:And they'll melt the metal and then make the tips, and then they trade with the Hadza. So this tip is for maybe for baboons. They hunt baboons. They hunt they they don't have a lot of animals to hunt. Right?
Speaker 2:Before, I'm fascinated by all this history. Mickey Bendor, you probably had on.
Speaker 1:No. We haven't.
Speaker 2:Oh, Mickey Bendor's amazing. Grow the paper man, the fat hunter. He he's like a PhD and
Speaker 1:Oh, wow.
Speaker 2:Oh, you got it.
Speaker 1:Mickey a guy or girl?
Speaker 2:It's a guy. He's in in Europe. I figured where it was.
Speaker 1:We'll have to get him on.
Speaker 2:That'll be a great episode. He's a legend. But he talks about how for, like, a million years, we hunted giant woolly mammoth.
Speaker 1:I mean, we we had them into extinction.
Speaker 2:Yes. And we would have giant fatty animals. And even in North America, we could have giant bison roaming or there's megafauna. Right. Huge megafauna.
Speaker 2:Right? So all this stuff. Now the Hadza have nothing left but some baboons and the little baby deer, the little baby antelope
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And these little bush babies. Looks like a little Furby. It's like this big, and that's all they have left.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:So there's also this thing of the modern scientists that study them, they're like, oh, they eat so much starch and the like the tubers and the the plants. I'm like, that's all they have left. They're not trying to eat that. Right. Like, they are trying to get meat.
Speaker 2:They are hunting. That's all they want. They are trying to get as much animal food as they can, and the women are back home eating these tubers. And they are these giant tubers. There's not like a sweet potato.
Speaker 2:It's this giant fibrous tuber, and they have to put them by the fire. And you eat them. They they're not eating the fiber. So they're chewing on this stuff, and then they're spitting it out. And all they're doing is getting a bit of glucose from
Speaker 1:Interesting.
Speaker 2:The starch. So and and I tried it too. So if you look around them, the women are sitting there all day just hanging out while the men go hunting. There's just piles of this fibrous stuff. It's like chewing on sugarcane.
Speaker 2:You can't eat sugarcane. You can chew on it and get the sugar out.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:But then you spit out the fibrous stuff. So I think there's this medical, these PhDs, like, they go out there with their bias. They think that fiber is magical. They they don't they they don't know why they have such a good microbiome. And then they go and they see them eating, like, this giant tuber, and I think they it's a bit of fraud where they just measure the entire tuber, and they're like, oh, they're eating, like, hundreds of grams of fiber.
Speaker 2:Interesting. But they're not eating the fiber.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:That's just a side story. Wild. Yeah. And I've and this is I don't know. I wanna confront one of these these scientists that study the Hadza.
Speaker 2:Like, these people, they're bringing their plant they're they're, like, plant based bias. They're, like, modern diet bias. Because I've talked to these guys, Herman Pontzer.
Speaker 1:He's
Speaker 2:a he's kind of a famous PhD
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Out of Harvard.
Speaker 1:I'm familiar with him.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And he he declined. I I was gonna do a podcast with him, and he backed out because he he didn't like mine.
Speaker 1:He knew.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And these guys, they go and they think they wanna see that how much fiber they're eating. They think that's why they have a good microbiome. They're not eating this fiber. They're eating they're not trying to eat fiber.
Speaker 2:They're eating meat and honey and fruit and chewing on some stuff. And I think why they have the good microbiome is, like I said, they're they're eating off the ground. They're having dirty knives. They're, like, they don't have
Speaker 1:It's like Purell. Our our podcast with Joel Salatin, he says he drinks right out of the cow trough.
Speaker 2:Exactly. That's he's a genius.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So so, yeah, here's the arrow. Like, they they make these by themselves. Right? It's like they they collected some of this wood, and I had to carry it back for them. They're like, oh, carry this for us because they just always, you know, have to get make new arrows.
Speaker 2:So, yes, like I said, they they have different tips for each animal. Here's another tip.
Speaker 1:I'm I'm curious. What was the relationship like on the hunt in between the different guys? Was there a clear, like, leader who is gonna be the guy who ended up, like, getting a kill? Or, like, how was the dynamic between the guys on the hunt?
Speaker 2:So there was a leader. So they they're pretty egalitarian in the sense. It's not like this guy, like, makes all decisions.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So there was the leader who was supposedly the best hunter. Right? And he wasn't the oldest. He was a a middle aged guy. There was older guys that would go, and they were not the leader.
Speaker 2:But it also there wasn't it's it's not like he was leading the pack. Like, it it was this flowing thing where people were just, like, going in front. Like, some people were going in front, and we were just trying to keep up the whole time. And they were just moving, moving, and and they kinda split up and go, you know, fan out and then come back. It it was just it there it was there was no order to it.
Speaker 2:It was also it wasn't like, oh, we're gonna go hunting at this time. And I read about this too. They're just it's not like they have orders. They're like, let's go hunting or, like, I'm gonna go hunting. Come with me.
Speaker 2:Like or, like, you come with me. We're gonna go hunting. It's more like, I'm gonna go hunting. Does anyone wanna come? Right?
Speaker 2:And I've read about this in studies, and this is what I saw. It's also there's no sense of time. They don't have a sense of, like, tomorrow or yesterday or even, like, let's go hunting at this time. We just showed up, and we're just milling around on the second day. And then all of a sudden, they get it's like someone just gets up and starts running, and then we're just like, oh, I guess we're going.
Speaker 2:And they just go. Yeah. They just go. And we're like, and we're like, grab the cameras and, you know, we're trying to carry all these cameras, and they just went. You know?
Speaker 2:And it it wasn't organized. It's not like this is the time we're gonna do it. They just kinda go with the flow.
Speaker 1:So what was the cue? Like, could is there anything that that's so crazy.
Speaker 2:They just go. They're just like, ah, it's time.
Speaker 1:Let's do it.
Speaker 2:And someone's like, I'm gonna it just takes off, and everyone's like, alright. Let's do it. And, oh, they kinda live their life like that. That's the beauty of it. It's pure community.
Speaker 2:Right? It's all they have is community. They're just together. And it's kinda like a vacation. They just hang out by the fire, and they actually, like, smoke bush weed.
Speaker 2:They have, like, the, like, weed grows around there and they're just, like, smoking And they're just posting up. They're singing. They're, like, practicing with the arrows. They're just hanging out all day. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Do they they seem like, how would you compare their their level of fulfillment?
Speaker 2:Oh, they're they're without want.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Without want. We we tried to ask them. So our guide was, amazing. He grew up in Lake Eyassee. He's he's in a different tribe, but he speaks so many languages Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Of course, English. And, there we're like, do they wanna come like, do they wanna visit The US? And he's just like, they don't even think about that. Like, you know what I mean? We're like, don't they wanna, like, come see an airplane and, like like, what?
Speaker 2:No. They don't think about that.
Speaker 1:So interesting.
Speaker 2:They don't think about yesterday, tomorrow. They're just in the moment. It's crazy.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Wow. So what do you got?
Speaker 2:What do you got there? So the second one, this is for baboons. So if you can't see it, it, has all these barbs on it. So this goes into the baboon, and then they can't they try to pull it out because baboons have hands. Right.
Speaker 2:And they're like, so this these barbs make it so they can't pull it out. But this is what they're left hunting with.
Speaker 1:I mean, they that's incredible that they're making
Speaker 2:Well, the the toga made this one. So, yeah, they traded with the Hazza. But it's I it's kinda sad that they're like, that's why I was talking about the giant animals that they used to have, and now they have to get baboons. I mean, this is these are very close to humans. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I do not I did not eat the baboon. Like, I ate the brain of the little antelope. I ate the whole you know, the liver. We're eating the whole thing, but I did not touch the baboon. That thing looked gross, and it's just like, ugh.
Speaker 2:It's too much. Right?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's like this thing has hands. Like Yeah. Yeah. But that's what they have. They don't have all the big animals are in the the reserves.
Speaker 2:Right? It's there is always this, like, story of the government kinda just taking over.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that was consistent across Africa when we went to visit the pygmies as well. People might have heard about the pygmies or push off their land. I hear Justin Wren Yeah. Who's doing these projects. It's yeah.
Speaker 2:They're pushed off their land. They can't get any food. They're starving. They're poor. It's it's a nightmare.
Speaker 2:We visit the pygmy as well. This is, the machete. This is from the pygmy. They made this machete, and I got it home. I got this thing.
Speaker 1:They use this for? I mean, cutting into trees?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. Just everything. They just roll around with it. They try to trap some animals.
Speaker 1:This thing's
Speaker 2:still pretty sturdy. Yeah. They chop down. They they're
Speaker 1:Do you use this to cut steak?
Speaker 2:Not yet. They're eating like cornstalks, though. Like, I was there in this little community, and they're pushed off their land. They have nowhere to go. They have this tiny little area, and these kids were, like, chewing on cornstalks for breakfast.
Speaker 2:Like, not corn. Just like the cornstock.
Speaker 1:The original cornflakes?
Speaker 2:Oh, man. Oh, okay. Yeah. He like, so this kid had this machete, and it just, like, chopping at a cornstalk that has, like, zero nutrition in it and just chewing on it for some calories. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So were you surprised by their health in any way, either positive or negative?
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah. That's a it's a hard story because they're yes. As as they get pushed off to land and as they have to rely more and more on, like, sacks of corn flour, they are getting unhealthier. It's kinda like seeing America in slow motion. So we we kinda saw all the different groups as we went way out to the the second group I mentioned, the Hadza, that didn't contact tourists a lot.
Speaker 2:They were the healthiest. Right? Great teeth, giant teeth and jaws. You know, the whole Weston Price thing. Right?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Just amazing. Like, this girl lives in a hut. She's sitting like, she lives in a hut on the ground. She's never heard of a dentist or orthodontist, and have a video of just, like, tooth model.
Speaker 2:Like, she would be, like, on a Crest commercial.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:Like, incredible. Like, these guys, Do
Speaker 1:they brush their teeth?
Speaker 2:No. Well, this group, they had sticks. So there's a certain stick they use, and they would they kinda use it as a toothpick. And it's a little bit yeah. They they kinda brush your teeth.
Speaker 2:Not really. No. It's just more like like brushing off fat. Like, if you get gristle out of your teeth Yeah. They're just kinda like, let's get that out of here.
Speaker 2:But, no, they're incredibly healthy. The further away you get from society, the healthier they are. We were in the city, they were a mess. Right? There's this Masai people that live in the city, but they still come from the same line, and they were not doing well.
Speaker 2:And they're just eating modern foods.
Speaker 1:What was what was there that was causing them like, is there fast food there? Or is it
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow.
Speaker 2:This is in Arusha in Tanzania, and they they have yeah. They're, like, frying stuff in oil, and they're, you know, it it's all coming in to the it's like the slow motion. Right? It's coming in slowly, like, into United States.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So and then there was the in between too, which was interesting, where it was a more agricultural society. So they weren't hunter and gathering, and they weren't in the city. Mhmm. And these people, like I said, it was, like, getting to The United States, like, halfway there. Like, you could see we we try we had this tribe of elders.
Speaker 2:We were trying to we organized this big group of elders to we were gonna learn from them and talk to them, and we didn't know their, agricultural community. So they did not have a lot of meat. And these people were healthier than Americans, but they were not healthy like the Hadza like the older people in the Masai. The people that lived traditionally with the whole foods and the animal based diets, they were, like, robust and running around and, you know, this guy was running up a hill and, you know, all living long and strong. And this group that they were relying on corn meal and just plants or just eating bananas and just random stuff, and they barely had any meat, they were hunched over.
Speaker 2:They they were had joint pain. They were had all these signs of chronic disease.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:And they they yeah. The this whole thing ended early because they couldn't even sit still. They're, like, they started just, like, walking home, like, during our interview with them.
Speaker 1:And So interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And, like, so there is something to this, just, like, having enough animal nutrition. They they were eating whole foods. Right? Because it's kind of going against what I said earlier.
Speaker 2:As long as you're eating whole foods, you're okay. It's like, you're kinda not okay if you're just relying on these really low quality like, they get, like, sacks of corn flour, and they have to live on this corn meal. And they call it ugali, and they mix it with water, and it gives them calories to survive. But if you're just eating a few bananas and some corn meal and you don't have any animal nutrition or you get, like, an egg once in a while Yeah. You're not gonna do well.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I mean, new nutrient density is, like, the paradigm shift away from the calorie model. And I feel like you just described it perfectly where it's like they're they're still eating real food, but they're not eating real nutritious food. So their health is obviously not as good as the the tribes who are eating animal products. You mentioned your relationship with Bill Schindler.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. Have you talked to him about hunting?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So there's one thing. So he Of course. He made me this arrowhead, this Obsidian arrowhead.
Speaker 1:I brought
Speaker 2:this as well. So he's amazing. People should look him up. He he was he had his own TV show at one point. Yeah.
Speaker 2:He made that in, like, five minutes while he was talking to me.
Speaker 1:Five minutes.
Speaker 2:And he just chipped it away and made it. So he's a legend. He does experimental archaeology. He does, like, kind of paleoanthropology work. He does food science stuff.
Speaker 2:He kinda goes around the world, like, learning about how people properly prepare plant foods. Well, he he's very nose to tail, like, animal based. He's like, yes. Everywhere I go, it's animal nutrition, nose to tail. And when they eat plant foods, they properly prepare them.
Speaker 2:And that's a fermenting, soaking, sprouting, doing all this stuff to get rid of the anti nutrients, and they're not doing it year round. So that's really interesting. But what what else he does is, talk about the like, get back to hunting, is how much of the animal they use. So he did a study. I forget I think he did it with his students because he used to be a professor in Maryland at this college.
Speaker 2:And they did a study where they'd look at the took a deer, and it's like what the normal cuts that you get from it. Right? It's like how how people normally eat meat. And then they did the deer notes to tail. Right?
Speaker 2:And he is like, this is how we do it. We, like, trim off all the things. We're eating the bone marrow. We're doing we're eating it all. Double the amount of calories.
Speaker 2:Double the amount of calories when you eat the animal properly.
Speaker 1:So, basically, what you're saying is that even in, like, the animal based community, people are just eating too many of, like, the prime cuts, the ground beef, and not getting into the bone marrows, that like, I mean
Speaker 2:Off cuts.
Speaker 1:Bone marrow has an insane lot of calories. Yeah. Insane amount of calories, but there's other cuts too that are just forgotten about.
Speaker 2:Organs, fat. A lot of fat is thrown away too. Yeah. That's true.
Speaker 1:That's terrible.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's like, I have this whole new picture of of fat or and all the offcuts. I'm like, I used to think that that stuff was garbage. You know, you have this perception. It's like, oh, this is just the offcuts.
Speaker 2:This is like the weird the junk or, like, they throw in a hotdog. I mean, hot dog is bad for different reasons because they use nitrates or, like, you know, other additives, but it's actually good. That's why I flipped the paradigm. It's like, oh, no. No.
Speaker 2:This is all the collagenous bits and the different things that round out the nutrition from the muscle meat. You want to eat all those weird stuff. It isn't bad. Yeah. It's just our perception is that it's low quality and bad.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Right? But it's giving you the different amino acids that you need.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's complete. And there's always a way to prepare it to make it taste, like, better or get get nutrients out of it that you would otherwise not be able to get. Like, I think of bone broth as just, like, this incredible invention that you you get collagen, you get protein, you get sodium, you get calcium. There's so much in it.
Speaker 1:It's so good for your gut. There's, like, so many benefits. But if you forget about it, if you don't, like, use the bones and put it in water and do the whole process, then you don't get any of those benefits.
Speaker 2:You're missing out. And that I mean, that's like our whole modern diet is like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Even if you're doing it well, there's still a lot to get from the animal.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Absolutely. Well, you've got me jacked up for the hunt. Yeah. What should I expect?
Speaker 1:What do you what do you what would you get what advice would you give to the first timer?
Speaker 2:Be ready to be hot and sit in a blind. It's not all fun and games. Yeah? It's like we're gonna be sitting there, and we're gonna be waiting. You gotta be patient.
Speaker 2:And just be ready, man. Just just be ready to pull that trigger.
Speaker 1:I'm so excited. It's gonna be fun. How many other guys are going, by the way?
Speaker 2:We have 11 total. Not everyone's hunting. Okay. Cool. Be at a house.
Speaker 2:It's our home base. Some people are gonna hang out at the house. And, yeah, we're gonna go hunting. But we're gonna I think we're gonna have four hunts. So it's, like, evening, morning, evening, morning.
Speaker 1:Cool.
Speaker 2:So we have four opportunities.
Speaker 1:Do you think everyone will go on all the all four of the hunts? Who's some?
Speaker 2:No. Some people are gonna skip some.
Speaker 1:Michelle. But
Speaker 2:you you yeah. We'll do
Speaker 1:I'm gonna I'm gonna get out there.
Speaker 2:Oh, we're gonna do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's gonna be great. Well, I'm, I'm excited to get out there, and then we gotta get rolling here. So, appreciate the time. And, this weekend's gonna be sweet.
Speaker 2:Oh, man. Let's do it.
Speaker 1:Let's do it. Thanks, brother. Yeah.
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