#22: Dr. Ken Berry (@KenDBerryMD) - Reclaiming Your Health, Fixing Your Hormones, and Fueling Your Children.

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Meat Mafia podcast. On today's episode, we are lucky enough to be joined by a thought leader in the ketogenic and carnivore world, doctor Ken Barry. Doctor Ken Barry has over 2,000,000 subscribers on YouTube, and he has appeared on Paul Saladino's fundamental health podcast as well as Mikaela Peterson's podcast, the Mikaela Peterson podcast, and Tom Billieux's show Impact Theory. Above all that, doctor Ken Berry has helped thousands of patients reclaim their health through embracing a low carb, high fat diet, and he is on a warpath to reverse type two diabetes across The US and beyond. You guys are gonna really, really enjoy this episode, so sit back and enjoy.

Before we get started, a quick word from our sponsors. This episode of the podcast is sponsored by Absolutely Absolutely Nobody. Nobody is a keto brand that nobody knows about because it doesn't exist. We would love to have you as a sponsor on our podcast. And if you are interested, reach out to the meat popular.

We would love to hear from Alright. We are live here with another meat mafia podcast episode. I am Clemenza here with my cohost Salazzo, and we are joined by a fantastic guest, doctor Ken Berry. How's everyone doing?

Thanks for having me. Call me Kenny Soprano. You

know, so now you're you're officially a member of the Meat Mafia. We normally do some type of a baptism by bone broth, if

that sounds good to you. Sounds great. Yep.

Love it. Just just a quick basting. It's it's nothing too invasive. Just a little, bone broth to the forehead type of thing.

Yep. An anointing with bacon grease. That that's great. I love it.

Yeah. You're you're a big bacon and eggs guy. Right? You said that with your stomach, you can you can crush bacon, and there's no problem at all. Right?

Yep. No problem at all. I can buy the cheapest bacon at the big box store and eat it to my tummy's content. I don't have any seemingly don't have any kind of negative reaction to it at all.

That's amazing. Yeah. We know that that's it seems like that's like a point of contention, but that I Clemens and I are the same way where we can eat bacon and we don't have any issues with it, and it seems like you're the same way too. But, you know, we we're we truly are honored to have you on because both of us with our own carnivore diets, a lot of the content that you put out on YouTube was pretty foundational to shaping the way that we took our dietary directions. And we think that a lot of

our audience is already familiar with who you are. But, you know,

for anyone that doesn't know, I know that you're a fan you practice family medicine by trade. I think you have over twenty years of experience in Western medicine. And you've had your own incredible journey in the low carb, ketogenic, now carnivore space. We would love to just give the audience a little bit more insight into your own personal journey with nutrition and really how that's led you to the point where you

are now as a leading carnivore voice. Sure. So I was classically trained in allopathic medicine at a state university and did my residency, also with the same state university, UT UT Memphis, University of Tennessee. And, in my early years of life, in my teens twenties and early thirties, I was the guy that could not gain weight. I would work out faithfully.

I read everything Joe Weider ever wrote. You know, I would I would drink my, MegaMass 2,000. I couldn't gain an ounce. Not definitely not a muscle, and even I couldn't even gain fat back then. But starting in my early to mid thirties, that changed.

I still wasn't able to put on any muscle, but I I became very, very good at putting on fat. And so I quickly gained weight, and I was working a lot of emergency department shifts. And then I would work in my clinic as well, so I basically lived in scrubs, which some of your listeners may know have a drawstring waist, which gives you no indication if you've gotten fatter or skinnier. And so for about three years there, I was getting progressively fatter very quickly. And it really I mean, I knew I'd put on weight, but I had no idea.

And then one day, I was gonna go out to dinner, and I tried to put on a a pair of my jeans, And my jeans laughed at me. They were like, that's not happening. And I got on a scale, and I was two hundred and ninety seven pounds Wow. Which was a huge wake up call. I was almost three hundred pounds.

And, in in high school, I'd weighed one ninety all the time. That was my standard weight regardless of if I tried or didn't try.

Oh.

And so I had my lab tech draw a bunch of blood, and I I was it turns out I'm I was prediabetic, very inflamed. All my inflammatory markers were high. I I had they checked my blood pressure. It was high that one reading, which doesn't diagnose me with hypertension, but I definitely was moving that way. I I certainly had metabolic syndrome and prediabetes.

I had severe gastric reflux, heartburn. I had rosacea. I had terrible dandruff. I had toenail fungus. Like, I was just a mess.

And and and two things really hit me. One, I'm a very common sense guy. I grew up in the deep, Deep South where where one plus one has to equal two. Whether it hurts your feelings or not, that's just it. And and and also people in the South are very quick to call you out on your bullshit.

Mhmm. And so if you're a mechanic and you've got a a front yard full of cars that won't start, people will make fun of you. And in the same respect, if you're a fat doctor and you try to tell them they need to lose a few pounds, they might try to be respectful, but it's just not in their nature. They'll make fun of you. They'll be like, okay there.

Doughboy. I'll see what I can do. And so it quickly became apparent that I could not be this this incongruous fat doctor who was trying to teach people how to be healthy. That just doesn't even make any sense. And so as part of my journey to try to fix myself, I tried the American Diabetes Association.

I didn't even attempt to dash diet by the American Heart Association. That's that's just a stupid diet. But I did try to adhere to the ADA's kinda guidelines. And after three months of that and jogging every day, drinking lots of fruit juice smoothies and eating lots of whole wheat bread, whole grain bread, I'd actually gained a few more pounds and got a little more prediabetic. And it was at that moment that was sort of my epiphany that maybe, just maybe, I don't know what the hell I'm talking about when it comes to the nutrition of a human being just out in the wild.

And so I I went back to the nutrition drawing board and basically just started all over and, started reading far outside of my family medicine box. And that led me to paleo, primal, then to low carb, then to keto, all of which served me to some degree, but didn't get me where I wanted to be and where I needed to be for my long term health. And it was only after seeing this crazy guy named Sean Baker. He was you know, he's this crazy carnivore, and I thought, well, I'm just gonna issue a one month carnivore challenge on my Facebook page. And any anybody who wants to do that, we'll just do that for fun.

Because I'd already pretty much discovered the power of a a very low carbohydrate, well formulated ketogenic diet, very powerful diet. But I still had a little bit of heartburn. I still had a little bit of weight to lose. I still had a little bit of this, that, and the other. Everything was about 80% better, but not where I wanted it to be.

And after that one month of carnivore, which was not grass fed, grass finished, panda massaged carnivore. It was just, ground beef and eggs and bacon from from Walmart or Sam's or Costco. Right? After that, I had zero heartburn, which had not happened to me after the age of 30. I literally had not had a day where I didn't have severe heartburn that affected my ability to speak, swallow, just constant pain.

I took two Nexium a day for for several years there when it was kind of at its peak. I hadn't had heartburn that entire thirty days. And for me, that was a little bit of a a miraculous event. And so I'm like, okay. I think I'm gonna keep doing this.

And I had, my patients all of my patients who were overweight, obese, or severely obese, they saw the change in me. I lost, you know, 60 pounds and just looked happier, and my that that shirt button right over my belly button wasn't in danger of popping and putting someone's eye out anymore. And they were like, doc, you look great. What are you doing? And so I started to kinda recommend keto and and then eventually carnivore to my most severely obese patients.

And they would come back in three months, six months for their checkup, and they would say, yeah. Oh, I've lost twenty, thirty, forty, fifty pounds, whatever. But, also, my knee arthritis is gone. Like, it doesn't hurt anymore, or my reflux is gone, or my, psoriasis is 95% better. And it was and it was like at first, I thought that was just anecdotal.

Like, that's you know, patients will just they'll blow smoke up your butt. They you know, they can't help. They like you. They respect you. They wanna they wanna impress you.

And I'm like, there's no way. Right? I mean, it's just changing the food you eat. That's not gonna have that kind of effect. And so they would say, do you think it's this diet?

And I would say, I don't know. And then then their next question would be, can I do this for another month? Because back then, I kinda thought keto carnivore was maybe some dangerous short term weight loss hack that we would just do for a few months, get our weight back under control, and then go back to eating lots of fruit smoothies and whole grain bread. But the more I read and looked deeply into the research, there's actually kilograms, just pounds and pounds if you added up all the the weight of the studies showing that hyperinsulinemia, lectins, phytates, oxalates, all this stuff is deeply, deeply in the literature. And I also after reading the paleo diet and then some other kind of paleo ancestral books, I've really started to get interested in archaeology, paleontology, and paleoanthropology.

And what I discovered I'm I'm a a purely amateur armchair paleoanthropologist. I don't wanna miss give anybody misconceptions that I'm some paleoanthropologist. But what I found was is that it's common knowledge in the paleoanthropological literature that we are and have been super carnivores for at least two, two and a half, three million years. 70% of our our food intake was meat and animal based foods. This is not they can tell this from the stable carbon and isotope and nitrogen and strontium, isotope analysis.

This is just well known in their literature. There's nobody even debates that. Now when you get closer to our modern time, when you get about anywhere closer than about twelve thousand years, fifteen to twelve thousand years, all of a sudden, you start to see lots of grains and lots more plants, and you don't see the the the high nitrogen, isotopes and stuff anymore. And we can talk about why that is if you wanna go down that rabbit hole. But doctors get very little training in nutrition.

Very little. Mhmm. I had one half of one semester in my second year of med school one day a week. That was my nutrition training. And that the majority of that was how how do you how do you keep somebody from starving to death if they've been in a rollover car accident, have third degree burns over eighty percent of their body, broke their mandible, knocked out all their teeth, and they can't take food by mouth.

How are you going to feed that person through an, an IV and keep them from dying? That that was the majority of our training. But just the care and feeding of a normal human with a, you know, a spouse and a job and a dog, we didn't get any training whatsoever on that at all. And so I think and then then definitely doctors get zero training on anthropology or paleoanthropology. None whatsoever.

It's not even doesn't even occur to anybody that they should know anything that's been discovered in that literature. But the more I read, the more I find that that's vital to understand. If we've been this species for two hundred and fifty to three hundred thousand years and and as hominids, we've been eating a super carnivore diet for two, two and a half, three million years. That's probably very, very important, and and and applicable to what we should eat now. So that's kind of my journey.

I'm interested. So this anthropological approach to thinking about lifestyle and nutrition specifically, like you said, but the lifestyle is also a component too, like getting sunlight, being outside. Was there anything else that you came across when you started to go down that rabbit hole that you found to be helpful, in your own health journey, but then also, you know, really helping other people figure out ways to be healthier?

There it's it's kinda hard to to know what people's lifestyles were back that far back in history. Obviously, we know they had to hunt. They had to and that that that had to be, by definition, a very physical practice. Right? I mean, they couldn't they didn't have La Z Boy recliners, and they didn't have two seventy Winchesters.

They literally had to go out in persistence hunt and and hunt in groups. And so we know that their life was very strenuous. It was very, physical. There's no doubt about that. But what I've what I've come to find with the the hundreds of thousands of people that I interact with online that although exercise is very, very good for you in many, many hundreds of ways, it's actually quite a terrible way to lose fat.

And and let's let's clear this up. People say all the time, oh, I need to lose some weight. What they mean is I need to lose some muscle. Oh, no. Wait.

That's not what they mean. I mean, I need to lose some bone density. Oh, no. That that's not what they mean either. What everybody means when they say I need to lose some weight is they need to lose some fat.

They need to burn off some stored fat. And when it comes to burning off stored fat, exercise is a terrible strategy for that. Now I'm not saying exercise is not good for you or that it's bad. I'm just saying when if you've got extra fat that you need to lose, you need to focus 100% of your effort and your motivation and your persistence and your money on what you put in your mouth. That's where oh, especially if you're obese or severely obese, Don't need I don't need I'm not even gonna talk to you about exercise.

You need to fix your diet and make sure you've got it fixed. Make sure you've broken your sugar and carbohydrate addictions. Make sure that you've broken all your habits. Make sure that you fixed your your kind of, social family and work environment so that that it's no longer a constant temptation for you to eat the highly processed carbohydrate shit. Well, that's where, anybody who's obese or severely obese, that's where they need to put 100% of their effort and money is to fix their food problem.

And then what I find, and I think that it's very telling is when people do take that advice and start to burn off, twenty, thirty, 50, a 100, in some cases, 250 pounds of unnecessary unhealthy fat, guess what they suddenly feel like doing? As if by magic as if by magic, when we've given their mitochondria a chance to to recover and and rejuvenate and, in many cases, grow new mitochondria, all of a sudden, they've got this burst of energy, and they feel like exercising. It I don't even have to tell them to exercise. At some point in their their fat loss journey, they're just like, oh, yeah. And I joined the gym.

Nobody told me to. I just I felt like I'm ready to do that now. And I think that's the natural progression for most people, especially people whose weight has gotten just completely out of hand.

It's also it's interesting the way that the body responds to animal based protein. And the reason why I say that is Clemens and I both played baseball in college, and it was, you know, classic young guys in your twenties. You're drinking the pre workout, and you're so worried about protein after you lift drinking these protein powders. I know you were talking about how you were the same way in your twenties and thirties. Now I remember lifting, you know, one to two hours a day sometimes, and I did a decent job of packing on muscle.

But then once I made the shift to the carnivore animal based approach, I feel like I could get away with lifting two to three times a week, and your body responds so well to the steak and protein. It's almost like a craving it. Right? And

you Yep. One of the things I've I've noticed, and it's just an anecdote, I in my personal, journey, I noticed even back on and my my keto diet was very meat heavy. Fatty meat heavy keto is what I called it. I noticed that I was putting on muscle, and I I was not I had not changed anything in my phys physical regimen. None.

Nothing. So I would go out and work on the farm and, you know, little stuff like that. But I noticed that my pants kept getting looser, and my shirts at the shoulders kept getting tighter. Mhmm. And I was not in I I haven't had a gym membership, I don't think, ever in my life.

And I was not lifting any extra weights. I was not trying to build muscle whatsoever. And and, indeed, in the years since then, I've had thousands of people tell me online or they ask me the question, do you just naturally put on muscle when you eat this way? And I'm like, I kinda think it to some degree. Yes.

You do. And that kinda makes sense because, you know, if you see a a lion or a tiger out in the wild, they literally sleep for twenty hours a day. Right? And they'll do that for days, then they'll get up, and they'll run 45 miles an hour for for ten minutes or whatever and catch something and then eat as much of it as they can possibly hold. They eat until they're comfortably stuffed.

And then what do they do? They go to the gym and they do some squats. No. They go take a nap. They literally sleep all the time, but yet when they get up and walk, they're rippling muscle.

So it's almost as if our body knows when we stop to pull it stop poisoning it that, oh, okay. I need to be a I need to this is I need to go back to my baseline default setting, which is healthy and vibrant and vigorous. And, yeah, I've I've heard many people say, I put on a muscle now. Nobody wound up looking like, Danny Vega or or Sean Baker without lifting weights. You gotta lift weights to look like that, but I'm talking about just a natural layer of muscle that they didn't have before.

I've heard that thousands of times.

The the rest component too is really interesting that you just brought up with the the lion in the wilderness. Right? Being able to actually give yourself I think this is one of the components of lifestyle that I've really started to connect with. Resting is such an amazing way to not only refill your willpower to make better choices around nutrition, but also when you go to the gym two to three times a week, you're having your best performance. And then you don't need to spend hours and hours and hours in the gym, and you still look great.

So it's it's kind of this interesting combination of rest, building into willpower, building into then you can go be active, do everything that you wanna do, and eat nutritiously. It's kind of this beautiful little circle of life there.

It's almost like it all makes sense. Once you stop listening to big food and big pharma and big ag and big medicine and just listen to your body and do what human beings have done for the last two and a half million years, it's like your body's kinda got all this and doesn't really need your help. It definitely the only way you can affect your body is to muck it up by eating the wrong things or not getting enough sleep or not living a a proper human lifestyle. If you just do the right things, you don't really have to put in a lot of effort or work. Your body just kinda goes back to that default setting of being really healthy.

Mhmm.

It's almost like through the low carb and carnivore approach, it allows you it allows you to actually listen to your body. Like, it gets it it rewires everything in the right direction. So it's like Yep. I'm hungry. I eat, and then I don't need to eat for a couple hours.

And then when I get hungry, again, I eat. You have, like, these natural signals that are now able to fire, whereas, like, with the hyperpalatable carbs, you could crush a whole pizza. I remember, like, crushing the whole pizza, and then I wake up the next morning starving.

It's like, yeah, you need

give your body what it actually wants.

That's exactly right. And I think a great analogy that I tell people, and they seem to get this, is if I went and found an alcoholic who was living on the street, right, and he's drinking a couple of quarts of cheap whiskey every single day. And I say, here. Drink this drink this eight ounce beer and see if you can feel any difference in how it makes you feel. He nails that beer, and he's like, duh.

No. I don't feel that at all. Right? Now we take the same alcoholic, and we send him to rehab. And we get him back eating real food again, and he it's a it's a year later.

Right? And then I give that same guy an eight ounce beer and say, here. Drink this and see if you can feel this. A 100%. He's gonna feel that beer.

And I think that's the that's a great analogy to help people understand that when you're eating up just a constant three meals a day with snacks in between of inflammatory, high carbohydrate, highly processed, big food bullshit, your body is so sick, so inflamed. Your brain is so muddled and so fatigued. You can't feel anything. So if I took told that person here, eat this, you know, eat this bacon and eggs. Do you feel any different?

They're like, no. I I still feel shitty. What are you talking about? But now if you take that same person and send them to to to low carb rehab and get all that shit out of their mouth and give all of their sales time to to to be autophagized and build new cells that are built out of animal based proteins and animal based fats. Then you tell that same person, here, have a big slice of this Pizza Hut pizza and drink a eight ounce Pepsi.

And tell me, do you feel any different after you do that? Well, miraculously, they do. And they're like, I feel like shit. What was in that? What did you put in that?

I'm like, son, that's the same stuff you you ate for the first three decades of your life. You were just so fat and sick and miserable and and confused and depressed. You couldn't tell a difference, but now you can. And I've had people actually reach out to me and say, I think carnivore's done something bad to my system because I can't tolerate really any kind of like, I I went out with from a a family reunion. I had a piece of pizza.

I was sick for two days. I think this carnivore diet has messed me up. I'm like, no. It hasn't messed you up. It's cleaned you up.

That's what it's done. And now when the alcoholic goes to the family reunion and has that beer, he feels it immediately because it's poison. And so you're now able to get immediate feedback from your body. If you eat something that's inflammatory or you eat something that spikes your insulin, that that's full of fructose or or some of the other sugars, you feel that immediately. That's actually a very good and healthy thing that you now can hear that feedback from your body, whereas before you were deaf to that feedback.

One of the things that we talk about too is the the taste buds getting manipulated by these flavorings too. And, like, your tongue is this very sophisticated tool that is supposed to be telling you what's nutritious and what's not. It makes me think of exactly what you just said.

Yeah. No, I totally agree. Your your olfactory sense and your gustatory sense, people think they're just for pleasure. You know, your nose is just for perfume and smelling the the the succulent cake that's baking in the oven, and your taste buds are just for enjoying a mixed drink that's high carb and and for enjoying, you know, some, pizza with with extra, dough. I don't know.

So but that's not what they're for. They're actually they're very useful evolutionarily evolved tools that when you break this, the sugar, and the carb addiction, and you you actually retrain your palate, which people don't realize is even a thing. But, absolutely, you can retrain your palate to to detect real food. And your, I've had thousands of people tell me on carnivore diet, their taste becomes so much more sensitive. Their taste buds and their olfactory, their sense of smell, becomes so much more sensitive on a carnivore diet.

And I think that makes perfect evolutionary sense. You you basically sharpen those tools again, and they're ready to work for you. And people will say, you know, when I eat a a raw almond now, I can actually taste the sugar in the raw almond. Whereas before, I couldn't taste the sugar in in Heinz ketchup. But now a raw almond tastes sweet to me, and I'm like, yeah.

You now have an adult human palate. You you you don't have a 12 year old child palate anymore where the only flavors you could taste was breaded chicken strips and Heinz ketchup. You didn't know there were any other flavors on the spectrum, but there's actually, almost infinite amount of smells and and taste that we can enjoy, but also use as tools. One of the first things I do when I pull a piece of meat out of the fridge is I sniff it. That's that's a that's an evolutionary tool.

If that meat doesn't smell right, I won't eat that meat. Right? That's what your nose is for. But before when I was eating the standard American diet and even the American Diabetes Association diet, I was chronically congested, allergy, sinus all the time. The meat could have literally had maggots in it.

I couldn't smell it. I couldn't smell it. I had to look at it. But now I can smell something that doesn't smell right across the room. Now my wife, Nisha, still has the nose of a bloodhound compared to mine, but mine is much, much better than it used to be.

Doctor Ken, do you feel like with your palate now, carnivore, that you can't get enough salt in your diet? Because that's the one thing that I've noticed is, like, I just now love the taste of salt. Even if I'm cooking for someone else, I almost have to moderate because I'm so used to just putting so much generous portion of sea salt on it. Do you find the same way for you too?

For me personally, yes. But I think when it comes to the enjoyment of salt and the need for salt, I think there's a normal distribution curve Mhmm. In all people. And and for every physiological thing, there's that normal distribution curve. And so I think the vast majority of people enjoy salt, but I think there's some people over on this end of the curve, the tail, they don't enjoy it, and they don't do so well with too much salt.

Then there's people over here on this side where I feel like I live where I almost can't eat too much salt. I love it, the taste of it. I actually if I'm gonna do something really strenuous on the farm, I'll take a big pinch of salt before I go or I'll put a big pinch in my coffee. I can actually perform better with more salt. That that and then some days, if I haven't had enough salt, I'll actually get not depressed, but kinda down and kinda blew a little bit.

Mhmm. And a a good pinch of salt will will perk up my spirits. And so I I think when my my undergraduate degree was in animal biology, which I also think helped me to see what was going on with this a lot quicker than some other docs whose, bachelorette degree might have been in music theory or economics. I was able to go, well, wait a minute. Let's see what other animals what how do they do they like salt?

And then I found, oh god. Yeah. Animals will walk for miles and risk their life Mhmm. To find us a a muddy salt or a a salty rock that they can actually lick and get salt from. So, okay, that that that's been so now we're talking about hundreds of millions of years of evolution.

Every mammal on the planet loves salt and will go to crazy lengths to get salt. I don't know if you've everybody who like, I don't think animals really care that much about salt. Go to YouTube after you watch this and Google goats climbing a dam, very dangerous salt. And watch these goats literally scaling this sheer straight up face of this because a 150 feet up, there's this one block in the dam that's a salty rock. And so these little baby lambs are climbing up there.

It's just crazy what animals will go to, the lengths they'll go to to get salt. Salt's vital. We have to have salt. And I think some of us need more of it than others.

Doctor Ken, on on, one of the things I was interested about that that was on your website was a lot of this new information around testosterone. And I think, you know, there's a lot of concerning data out there that young men are are struggling to even looking at them compared to their grand grandparents' generation. It's not even close to the same numbers. What sort of things did you notice as you were going through carnivore your carnivore journey or, like, anecdotally speaking about other people's journeys that you've acknowledged that that maybe help support, you know, the carnivore diet for reversing some of those testosterone related issues?

Yeah. I was actually aware of the low testosterone epidemic several years before I was aware of our our dietary dilemma that our entire society is in right now. I one time, I I checked the young man. He was in his early twenties, and his testosterone was a 179, which in your early twenties, you your testosterone shouldn't be under seven or 800. Right?

And he told his his chief complaint to me was, doc, something's wrong with me. Last night, I was watching TV, and I cried at a cat commercial. That was his literal chief complaint, which I also thought was funny, but I did not laugh. Yeah. And I was like, damn it.

I I didn't have to I knew he had low t. Turns out he was taking was on he was on a a three time a day dose of narcotics and a couple of other things that were just destroying his testosterone. He was also living on Pepsi and Cheetos and Ding Dongs, which was also I mean and so he he was a different man. He was he he was then a man. Let's put it that way.

When I helped him fix this fix his testosterone. Well, back in those days, all I knew was testosterone injections, creams, pellets. But as I progressed through this journey, I talked to you know, kept checking patients' testosterone, and I've noticed that that the average guy will raise his testosterone without any supplementation whatsoever somewhere between 5,500 points just by fixing the diet, just by by eating a proper human diet. And, again, there's that normal distribution curve. Some people just get a little bit of benefit.

Other guys, it's like, dude, are you are you injecting testosterone sipionate and not telling me? Have you been to another doctor? And he's like, no, dude. I'm just eating meat and eggs. I I feel great.

Can I do this diet another month? And I'm like, yes. Yes. You can.

That's incredible. And even in addition to the test the testosterone benefits, I noticed that if I ever go off this off of an animal based approach and go back to the standard American approach, not that I I've never struggled with depression or anxiety, but I just noticed things that things things start to bother me that don't bother me when I'm eating this approach. So for me, that's my anchor to stay on the diet because I'm like, I know if I do this, I mentally have this amazing clarity. Things don't bother me. Do you see that with other patients as well?

Absolutely. And, you know, the the classic the classic representation of a high testosterone man is that he's cocky, arrogant asshole. Right? Mhmm. That's in the in the popular literature.

That's kinda how it's presented, but that's not been my experience at all. What I've noticed with men is that they have a a quiet, reserved strength mentally. Right? And I I very seldom see a guy when he gets his testosterone back up to seven, eight, 900, a thousand, that he becomes this arrogant, cocky prick wanting to fight everybody. I I I've maybe seen that.

I mean, one or two people out of the thousands of guys that I've helped correct their low testosterone. What I typically see is they become very center, very solid, hard to hard to ruffle their feathers. But but then ultimately, there'll be a price to pay if you push too far with that guy. Right? But he's he's he's actually has much better self control and is much more self aware and aware of his surroundings when he's got a an ancestrally appropriate testosterone level.

And that's one of the reasons that I've made so many videos on my YouTube channel about testosterone. There's a huge list of medications that that will lower your testosterone substantially, And people are taking these medications every day, and they have no idea that it's that's what that's why their testosterone is a hundred, two hundred, 500 points lower than it should be, and it could be is because of the damn prescription medication. I've got YouTube videos about food that lowers your testosterone, medications that lower it, all these different things because testosterone is super important for both men and women. That's very important to say as well, not just for men. Women have to have a certain amount of testosterone or they will suffer as well.

And that's why I've got so many videos about it because I think it's very, very important, and I was so happy when I started to discover from my patients' feedback and people online that, gosh, just eating a proper human diet tends to move your testosterone in the right direction. It may not get it where you want it to be, but it moves it in that direction. And I think that's a very powerful therapeutic innovation when you can tell a person stop taking this pill and this pill and start and stop eating this list of foods and start eating that list of foods, and now their testosterone is 250 points higher three months later just from those nonpharmaceutical, nonsurgical interventions, I mean, that if if there was a medication out there that would do that with no side effects, how how many thousands of dollars a month would the average guy pay for that that pill?

Oh my gosh. It's really it's like it's like the messaging around the whole thing is completely off. I'm really fascinated by the idea of the gains that you can have by subtracting certain things, especially in this realm. What what are, like, the one or two things that you in terms of, like, either pills or certain foods. I know carbs and high highly processed sugars are are probably, you know, a place to start, but anything that's kinda unfamiliar for, like, the general person that that might that they might be doing, without even knowing?

You mean just for general health or for weight loss or

for No. It's testosterone, Ty. Yeah.

So, yeah, the the three things you gotta eliminate from your diet is sugar in all forms. Definitely added sugar. But for most guys, the majority of the naturally occurring sugars gotta go as well. The fructose is a huge deal that hasn't been talked about enough, but it's it's almost impossible to get fructose in the diet with also also getting glucose with it in the form of sucrose or some other disaccharide. So you gotta eliminate the sugars, number one.

Number two, you gotta eliminate all the grains and and beans because many of these things have have things in them that we either lock up and lower your testosterone or effectively raise your estrogen, which has the same effect as lowering your testosterone as far as you can tell by the way you feel. And then the third thing you gotta do is eliminate the vegetable seed oils. You gotta get all the canola and soybean oil, sunflower, safflower, peanut oil. All those gotta go. You've gotta use animal fats to cook with.

Those are the and then and then fill your plate with fatty meat and eggs. If you want a little veg, I think that's fine for most of us. If you want a few berries and a few nuts, I think that's fine for most people. Some of us that even that's too too high in carbohydrates. So that's the dietary.

Then when it comes to the medications, beta blockers, thiazide diuretics, and, statins, those are the and then any narcotic, those are the big ones that will just destroy your testosterone. So first literally, if you stop a guy's propranolol, he's taken for blood pressure, and stop his, Zocor, he's taken for cholesterol, and then stop his OxyContin twenty that he takes three times a day for that back injury he had twenty years ago. He shouldn't be on a narcotic, but he still is. And then you eliminate the sugar and the grains and the vegetable seed oils from that guy, you could literally raise that guy's testosterone 300 points without ever him seeing a testosterone cream, a needle, or a testosterone pellet.

Wow. That's fascinating. And the the animal fats that you touch on is interesting too because the three of us on this call right now, we all we all talk about how good we feel. The more the more fat you cook with, the more butter you use. But in Western society, there's such an aversion to animal fat and saturated fat.

One of the things that you mentioned in Michaela Peterson's podcast was how a lot of these international heart associations and dietary associations have quietly changed their stance on limiting saturated fat, but they've kind of stuck it in. Is that correct?

Yeah. They've they've completely stopped talking about dietary intake of cholesterol. Completely stopped talking about that. And there used to be a a maximum intake. Right?

Don't eat more than this much cholesterol a day. So they would tell you to avoid things like animal fat and and shrimp because it's high in cholesterol. That's completely been taken out of all their guidelines. And more and more, they're taking out saturated fat limitations now. Right?

And so they they're they're still not saying animal fats because what they wanna talk about is coconut oil and and the, you know, the, the the tropical oils. They want you to use that in olive oil. But but, I mean, animal fat I mean, basically, pork pork fat, bacon grease, that's a when you look at the fatty acid distribution of that versus olive oil, they're they're pretty similar. Right? But but but you can't say that out loud in some learned academic circles or you'll get you'll get kicked out because they're like, no.

Animal fats are by definition bad. Why? And so, yeah, and what and so what I think you're gonna see next, and you've already seen this with the American Diabetes Association, they now in their guidelines on page, like, 197 way in the back, they actually say that a low carb diet is a viable strategy for managing diabetes. And recently, the American Heart Association just came out and said that a low carb diet is a viable diet. They prefer it be like a Mediterranean and all the fat come from olive oil.

But they have said that a a lower carbohydrate diet is a viable dietary strategy for people with heart disease, high blood pressure, and other things. And so that I don't think you'll, and and early in my career of talking about this on social media, I said, I can't wait for the day when the American Heart Diabetes and Medical Association told a joint press conference, and all the big news channels are there. And they're like, yeah. You know all that stuff about saturated fat and cholesterol and all that? We're sorry.

We got all that shit completely wrong. That's never gonna happen. What's gonna happen is a very slow and silent backwards backing up. Right? They're gonna they're just gonna back slowly away.

And what you'll see in another five, ten, fifteen, twenty years is they'll come out and say, well, yeah, we've known we've known that low carb was the way to go. That's been in our guidelines for ten years. And we've we've been recommending that for to you. And so, yeah, that's just think about you and your life. If you found out you're totally wrong about something, right, in your with a personal relationship, you'd start to kinda back away from that.

You wouldn't just say, well, I was wrong about that shit. Here, slap me right in my face. You would just start to back away. You quit talking about that, and you try to redirect the conversation. That's exactly what these big medical organizations are doing.

I think it's disingenuous and unethical. I think and here's why. Because in that ten to twenty year migration from recommending a high carb diet to recommending a low carb diet, how many people are going to die from diabetes complications? How many people are gonna die from heart attack and stroke that could have been prevented? Right?

Does that make sense? And so they're trying to save face and save the reputation, but in the process, they're effectively killing hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people because people are still hearing the echo of that lie. Oh, I shouldn't eat any saturated fat. I shouldn't eat any cholesterol. I should eat, you know, lots of whole grains.

I should drink a big fruit smoothie every day. As their diabetes and fatty liver and obesity and heart disease continue to get worse and worse and worse, those people are gonna die unnecessarily. And that's why I think it's unethical for the big medical organizations to handle this in a way that their public relations agent is telling them this is how you need to handle this. Obviously, you're wrong. You f this up big time, but you can't just come out and say that.

People will start to sue you. People will start to stop donating that $100 a year they've been given to ADA for thirty years. You'll go broke. You'll go bankrupt, and you'll get sued out of existence. They don't want that.

They they've got a reputation to uphold. So they're what they're gonna effectively do is allow over a million people to die painful, terrible deaths over the twenty years that they're gonna use to migrate slowly away from the high carb, highly processed shit diet that they've been recommending. And that that that's what pisses me off, and that's why I do what I do every day.

Do you get a sense of optimism, as a doctor seeing other doctors kinda getting on board with what you're talking about? Or is there still this reluctancy? You know, it's kinda hard to see from an outsider's perspective what's really happening amongst the the doctor communities and what pressures people are feeling. So I'm curious if you're feeling the optimism around how this can all kinda rightsize itself.

Yeah. From a from a patient level and from a a provider level where the actually, where the medical rubber meets the road. I'm talking about family medicine docs, internal medicine docs, OBGYNs, pediatricians, mid level providers, nurse practitioners, physician's assistants. These guys are they get it because they've seen so many patients try keto, try carnivore, and lose a a a stupid amount of fat, right, and completely reverse their type two diabetes. And this is something that the doctor who's been this person's doctor for ten years was unable to do.

Mhmm. But this person just did it without the help of the doctor. Now you think, well, that probably embarrassed the doctor. It probably did. But act so when a doctor sees that one time, they say, that's just anecdote.

Right? It doesn't matter. But when a doctor sees that 20 times, the doctor's like, what the hell is going on? What is this keto? When they've seen it a 100 times, they're gonna go home and be like, I gotta Google this shit.

What is what is this keto carnivore stuff? And once they start reading and once they start maybe watching YouTube video of mine or two, they're like, oh, oh, human physiology. I have forgot about that. Mhmm. Because I was just going by what the drug rep told me when they brought free lunch.

I had I had forgotten the biochemistry and the physiology that I was taught in my first two two years of med school. Because if you go and you you can look up and get your guidance out and you get your biochemistry take book textbook out, it's in there. All this stuff is in there about ketones, about what happens, with fructose metabolism. It's all in there. But after the third and fourth year of medical school, it's very sexy to know the latest drug, but it's not very sexy in the medical community to remember your basic human physiology.

Does that make sense? And so when I first started speaking at low carb keto conferences, what, four years ago, I I I just for some reason, I said, raise your hand if you're a health care provider. And this was at a conference. There's maybe 300 people there. And there was, I think, two or three or four health care providers or dietitians in the crowd.

It was literally 99% nonhealth related people. Mhmm. Just a few months ago, I was at a conference, and there was about 300 people. I said, your hand if you're a health care provider or dietitian. It was like a third of the room.

Yeah. I'm talking about all the primary care specialties were there, but even neurosurgery. Definitely, neurologists are are aware of this now. Definitely, oncologists are aware that their patients don't die as quickly from the cancer if they're eating a proper human diet. Fertility specialists are on board with this because they noticed that women are much more likely to get knocked up if they're eating a high fat animal based diet.

And just imagine if you're the if you're a fertility specialist in a metropolitan area and there's five other guys that are your competition, if you can increase your success rate from three percent to ten percent, word-of-mouth is gonna keep you booked up for the next ten years. Right? And so all these specialties are going, wait a minute. I can actually increase my success rate by recommending this diet. And some of them don't even recommend it officially because they're afraid they'll get in trouble with their state medical board, which has happened to some doctors.

But they'll they'll say, okay. Here, I'm supposed to tell you to eat this American diabetes diet. Here's the handout. But when you get home, Google Doctor. Barry and do what he says because that's gonna help you.

Shit. We could be having the meat mafia fertility clinic just telling people to eat two rib eyes a day.

100%. 100%.

Love it. Love it.

It's funny you you mentioned the the, medical, aspect. Like, I had a buddy send me a buddy of mine sent me a picture the other day. His his mom was waiting in the waiting room of, I don't know, some doctor, and they they had these, recommended foods to eat. And it was recommending canola oil as a healthy fat. And, you know, like, like, in doctor Philovadia's book, he he mentions, at a hospital, these high carbohydrate foods that they're feeding the patients.

It's it's this weird dichotomy where, like, the people who are supposed to be helping you get healthy aren't even giving you the right advice. Like, it's, foundationally set up to fail. Right? And we're

seeing it. Absolutely. And and but there's now and I love that the MeetMafia is on board with this now because I put out this challenge all the time. I want all your listeners, if you have a relative that's in the hospital, right, or in any if they're in any kind of institution that that gets federal dollars. So if you've got a child in elementary school or a child in day care or you've got a a elderly relative in a nursing home, visit them.

Of course, you're gonna do that for your family. You love them, but then you're gonna be like, I want you to go there at mealtime, and I want you to point out to the to the person and maybe even go talk to the dietitian in the cafeteria and say, my my brother's trying to recover from a car accident. He's got broken bones. You gave him pancakes and syrup and bananas and some Wheaties and some skim milk. How is he supposed to build rebuild bone with that?

What are you are you trying to help him heal, or are you trying to prevent him from healing? And then take a picture of the food on the tray and post it on social media. Because this this change, as I intimated earlier, is never gonna come from the top down. This change is gonna be a grassroots change that comes from YouTube channels like mine and podcasts like yours of just regular people becoming waking up and saying, wait a minute. I'm a human being.

I'm a homo sapien sapien. Damn it. I'm strong. I'm smart. I'm powerful, but I have been basically shackled and drugged and suffering for decades.

Now not only am I gonna throw the shackles off myself, but I'm gonna help every friend and family member that I have to realize their optimal health. And the way I'm gonna do that is by shaming that cafeteria dietitian and by shaming that primary care doctor and taking them a copy copy of doctor Berry's book and telling them to listen to the meat mafia And over and over and over, when when doctors and dietitians, when they've heard this message so many times, three things happen. Four things. They either commit suicide because they realize I literally have been hurting people or they they they retire. That happens very commonly, or they change how they practice.

Now when when you changed your mind about your diet, you helped you improved your health. Right? That's good. But when you change a doctor's mind, think about this. Think through on this how this is gonna spread exponentially.

How many patients are in that doctor's panel? A hundred, two hundred, a thousand? When you wake that doctor up and slap them and shake them and say, dude, I'm a homo sapien. Feed me the diet and recommend the diet that I'm supposed to eat. When that doctor finally gets it, when it clicks, how are they gonna change their medical practice?

They're not gonna be handing out the bullshit dietary guidelines anymore, are they? They're gonna make a pamphlet at home and print it out, and they're gonna give it to their patients just like I did back in 02/2005, a little 16 page handout that says eat this, avoid this. That's what they're gonna do. And so when you change one doctor or one dietitian's mind, you actually help potentially thousands of people. And that's the way this is gonna go exponential.

That's the way that's how we're gonna reach the tipping point where if there'll come a day when the American Diabetes Association looks moronic when they say, oh, you should eat lots of canola oil. Every single person in the audience is gonna snicker and make fun of them under their breath because everybody in the audience is gonna know that stupid. Mhmm. And I'm not gonna do that. Who's gonna actually listen to them?

That's when they become irrelevant, and that's when they either change their message or they go bankrupt.

Yeah. Doctor Kim, what do you think the an ideal doctor patient relationship looks like? And the reason why I ask you that is, I think you've said this before. I know a couple of other well known docs in the low carb space talk about being the CEO of your own health and taking in a variety of different inputs, but you're the one that has autonomy over your decision. Is that something you subscribe to as well?

Because a lot of people just take blanket inputs from their doctor and just listen to everything that they say.

Yep. Yeah. I tell people all the time, your doctor is not your daddy and not your boss. Okay? Your doctor is a learned health partner.

Your doctor is a consultant. Right? A lot of people just blindly go to a financial consultant and say, here. Here's all my money. Do whatever you think you should do.

And then those people wind up working as a Walmart door greeter when they're 70 because they don't have any money left. Right? That's not how you do that. You don't take your car to a mechanic, and he says, oh, you need a new motor and a new transmission and a new paint job. And you blindly just say, okay.

Do it. I don't know. No. You go get a second opinion. You Google that shit.

You look it up. You think about it. Does that make sense? That's how people have to start looking at the relationship with their doctor or their dietitian. Yes.

They've been to school. Yes. They have a degree. Yes. You should be respectful.

Yes. You should be polite. But at the same time, you should never ever blindly believe and implement what they tell you. If a patient came to me and and brought a bunch of stuff they printed off the Internet. Right?

I I immediately knew I had a motivated patient. I had a patient who was interested in improving their health. I had a patient who what I said made sense. They would listen, and they would work with me. But the average doctor still to this day, if somebody prints off a bunch of stuff that they found on the Internet and they take that to the doctor, the doctor is annoyed in most cases.

And in some cases, thoroughly pissed off and says, I don't I don't I'm the doctor here. I've got the MB. I don't need any input from you. If any doctor says that to you, any dietitian says that to you, that's a huge red flag that you need to fire their ass and go find yourself a new learned health partner because that's what your doctor and dietitian should be. Do you do you

see most doctors that that you either you learn from or communicate with regularly or even just other doctors that you'd, you know, notice from afar, are they continually learning and adopting that continuous growth continuous growth mindset? Because it does seem like there's a lot of one, like, new technologies out there like CGMs and telemedicine that can really help them grow their business and grow their reach, but also just like the the medicines always or or the practice is always changing?

So the average doctor is concerned with continuing medical education. Indeed, most doctors in most states have a minimum requirement of fifty hours a year or so of continuing medical education. You have to do the the the the the learning and document that you did it, or you'll lose your medical license. And in many cases, you you'll be kicked out of your medical society or your fellowship. But the problem is is 99% of what they learn is about new pharmaceuticals or about new ways to to use existing pharmaceuticals.

Indeed, most of the continuing medical education credits that doctors learn from and get credit from are actually developed, written, sponsored, and promoted by the big pharmaceutical corporations. So just, the other day, I'm I'm, in the American Academy of Family Physicians. Right? I got an email from the Tennessee Academy. Hey.

We've just partnered with, I'm not gonna say the big pharma name. We partnered with them, and they're gonna they're they have graciously extended us two hours of free continuing medical education credit. Yeah. It's all online. You don't have to go anywhere.

You can sign on. And because you remember, you get access to this. And, one so, basically, one was about taking care of type two diabetes in heart failure, and the other was about, morbid obesity and the and the treatment strategies. And so one of them was a basically an infomercial for a weight loss drug that that that man manufacturer made. The other one was a veiled, commercial for a type two diabetes medication that also in some of the research seems to improve the the numbers in people with congestive heart failure.

So they were literally hour long drug advertisements that I I got to claim two hours of continuing medical education. Now did I actually learn anything whatsoever that made me a better doctor and able to take better care of my patients, or did I spend two hours of my life to get two hours of CME that made me a better drug salesman for the big pharma company? Think about that. What? That's literally, it was a drug infomercial that taught me more ways to convince my patients, you need this drug instead of that drug.

It's it's the the incentives there seem like they're driving you towards this, pharmaceutical model away from the preventative model, which in in in reality, if we can prevent more disease, we have a healthier society. We're moving further away from this. Eighty eight percent of people are metabolically unhealthy. So it's

Yeah. And the the big medical associations have all been captured by the big pharma corporations. Okay? They donated enough money either through the front door or the back door that the American Medical Association, they're complete they're not even captive. They're basically on board with big pharma now.

The American Diabetes Association and and Heart Association are currently captive. They've got they've got so many millions of dollars of donations coming in each year that they have to be that's another reason they're very careful about their their messaging about diet is I mean, okay. If I if I come out as the ADA and say, You need to eat a low carb diet a 100% of the time, I'm gonna lose 3 or $4,000,000 a year in funding from the type two diabetes manufacturing companies because they don't but you you think that you think that the makers of insulin, you think they don't know that if somebody eats a low carb diet, they're gonna need somewhere between 80 and a 100% less insulin? Of course, they know that. They 100% have done the studies.

They know that. They just didn't publish the studies because that wouldn't have helped them sell any drugs. And so you then you've got doctors who are who are currently captive of their their state medical boards and their state medical associations. Because if you could stray too far, you'll get slapped on the wrist by your medical board, which has happened to several, low carb keto doctors that I know of. You'll get you'll get slapped.

You'll get put on probation. You'll get fined. And then you've got all of the big food manufacturers who have captured the schools of dietetics and nutrition. And so they have to be very careful or they'll lose their millions of dollars of funding. And so it's it really, the incentives are upside down and backwards currently, and that's why I don't think we'll ever fix this from the top down.

This will have to be a grass roots movement that starts with the people and then goes to the nurse practitioners and the physician's assistants, then goes to the primary care doctors, then goes to the specialists. And at that point, when everybody on the bottom of the pyramid, which if you look at a pyramid, that's the biggest part of the pyramid. Right? It's the bottom. When when the majority of people know that low carb is the way, and for many people, carnivore, that is the way to your optimal health, they're gonna ignore the top of the pyramid, and it'll just fall off or something.

I don't know. It'd be interesting to see exactly what happens at the top, but but it it won't be boring. I predict that.

It's it's certainly gonna be interesting for sure. Something I wanted to ask you, because I know you mentioned when you were when you were going through your journey, a lot of eggs, lot of bacon, a lot of ground beef. Now have things progressed at all? And the reason why I asked that is I'm starting to see more information around just the benefits of incorporating raw foods into the diet. So I've been noticing with myself, I've been incorporating things like oysters, like tartare, carpaccio.

Even though sometimes I have just, like, some ground beef with some vinegar and olive oil. And I swear my skin clears up even more than when I'm cooking meat. And I think that I don't know if that's just anecdotal, but I was curious how you feel about some of the raw food implementation.

Yes. I think it's very clear from the paleoanthropological evidence that before 1,000,000 years ago, maybe 1,000,000 years, everything we ate was raw without exception. Right? Unless, you know, lightning struck and then after the the forest burned down, you found some cooked animals. That'd be the only way you ever ate a cooked plant or a cooked animal is if there were a forest fire.

Right? And so about a million years ago, give or take, is when it looks like we first started using fire routinely as a tool. Now definitely cooking your food, if it's plant food, it definitely decreases the toxicity and unlocks some of the the vitamins and minerals. For for for animal foods, it definitely gives you more nutrition. But I think you're exactly right.

I think that in many cases, some of us don't need more nutrition. Right? We need we need nutrient dense food. We need amino acids, fatty acids, vitamins, and minerals. But what we don't need is too much nutrition because we're trying to lose fat.

And so I think if you wanna lose weight as fast as possible, then including as much raw animal food as you can in your diet, I think that's gonna help. Now the the fastest weight loss root of all is just not eating, period. Right? That we know that. The second fastest is is raw vegan.

If you wanna lose weight and look like you've got cancer and want all your teeth to fall out and all your hair to fall out, go raw food big, and you'll you'll weigh a a hundred and five pounds at six foot three. And your hair will be thin, and you'll be losing teeth, but nobody wants that. We don't wanna lose weight in an unhealthy way. Mhmm. We wanna lose weight in a healthy way that also optimizes our physical and mental health.

And to do that, the majority of your diet has to be meat and eggs. That's what it has to be as a Homo sapiens sapiens. But Nisha and I have noticed that after, you know, our, what, two and a half years on carnivore now, we very often go for the oysters. We we eat steak tartare pretty regularly. We cook our steaks rare, maybe medium rare on accident, but they're usually rare.

Creamy things. Yeah. Yeah.

And, you

know, Nisha right now is, how pregnant are you? Twenty five weeks. Twenty five weeks pregnant. Congratulations. She she is smashing the meat and eggs on a routine basis.

And if if if, you know, if there's any listeners out there who are pregnant or have a friend or a relative who's pregnant, she's constantly posting what she's eating during her, what I would call it, a keto vore pregnancy. Very little plant food involved, mainly meat and eggs. She posts that on her YouTube channel. Right? And and so I think a big part of this is people seeing, like, your transformation, like, how you used to act and how you used to look versus now.

Me, I used to be a fat, miserable doctor with with dandruff and die prediabetes and rosacea and was limping because my knee hurt constantly. Now I actually at 53 years of age, if I could go back in time, I could kick my 35 year old's ass. Yeah. Right? And people see that example.

They need to see that example of somebody transforming their health from previously being sick and miserable to now, man, they look like they look great, but they also look like they feel great. That's very attractive. That's very seductive. People are like, dude, what did you do? How did you do that?

And when you tell them, there might be some cognitive dissonance initially. But now we've got social media where back, you know, two or three decades ago, you didn't have that. You would hear somebody talk about the Atkins diet, and they they obviously did well. But then that was the only person you ever talked to

Mhmm.

Who had done the Atkins diet. Now you can sit down on on Instagram or TikTok or or YouTube or or Facebook and Google it. Look it up, and boom. There's tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions of people who are benefiting from this way of eating. And so now you you don't just see that one example.

You see that one example, and then when it piques your interest, you you research it, and boom. The world's open. You're like, oh my god. There's a million people doing this, and they're all reaping benefits. Perhaps I should do this too.

And that that's how I think we're gonna change the world is by starting by leading by quiet example, fix yourself physically, mentally, and then point them in the right direction. That's that's all we have to do to save the world.

Yes. Set setting the right example is key. My my buddy, Matt Dee, who came on our podcast early, early on, always talks about how the carnivores are kinda just gonna be it's almost like after prohibition when, you know, how we got out of prohibition was there was just these big quiet parties that were happening, and that's what the carnivore community is gonna be doing. There's gonna be healthy people thriving, and everyone's gonna be like, what is what are they doing differently? Like, why are they so so have so much higher energy, look way healthier, having more success in life?

Like

Yeah. And I'm I'm I'm predicting in ten, fifteen, twenty years in public schools, there will be a there will be a special class for kids who were their mothers ate a proper human diet when they were in utero and then fed them a proper human diet after they were born up until the time they go to school. They won't be able to be, educated in the same classroom with the the poor kids that grew up on Ding Dongs and Froot Loops and Lucky Charms. They'll have to have their own class. Otherwise, nothing will get done.

Because these kid, my two and a half year old, Beckett, is like, I try not to brag because everybody's gonna be like, well, duh. He's your dad. Of course, you think he's awesome. But I would put him up against the Edwards four year old at any task. Mhmm.

And he's gonna tie that four year old, if not kick their ass. And I'm just saying, when you see that kind of and I he's you know, I've I've I've had a few kids, and my first kids did not have the benefit of this knowledge that I have now. And I saw how they grew up, and now I see the difference between them and Beckett. And I love them all equally, but, man, if I could go back in time, I would feed all my kids a ketopore diet 100% of the time.

Could you unpack that a little bit just for people who are maybe trying to make their personal changes themselves and also raise you know, we we have a decent amount of families who follow us. So it's like if they're trying to make the changes themselves, but also give their kids that food, like, what would you recommend in terms of, one, just implementing it and two, giving the, you know, giving kids everything that they they want and need to thrive?

Well, it depends on the age of the kid and how how adulterated their palate currently is. Beckett's first solid food when he started weaning off breast milk was a beef rib that I had cleaned up pretty much, and I gave it to him. And he cleaned off the rest of the connective tissue, literally cleaned the bone so clean that when he dropped it in the floor, our our dog didn't even mess with it. He was like, I don't what what am I gonna do with that? There's nothing left.

That was his first solid food. But the average kid, their first solid food is rice cereal and those little puffs or Cheerios because, you know, Cheerios are magically nutritious. Right? And and parents don't know better. They're like, well, that's what my mom gave me, so that's what I'm gonna give you.

But I think that that people absolutely need to know that they they it doesn't have to be overnight with kids. Right? It can be a very slow progression over three to six months. And so I ask people, do your kids, do they drive? Well, no.

Do they have a credit card? No. Then who buys all the food for the house? Well, I do. Okay.

There you go. So you're in charge. Now we've established that. So every time you go to the grocery, you're gonna forget something that they shouldn't be eating, and you're gonna buy something new that they're probably gonna like. And when you get home, they're gonna be like, hey, mom.

Where are the Lucky Charms? You'd be like, oh, I forgot the Lucky Charms. I got you some blueberries. Right? There you go.

And so then from that day forward, you never buy Lucky Charms again. Every time you go to the grocery, you're gonna not buy some of the shit that you used to buy, and you're gonna buy more proper human food. And so over a three to six month period, there was no announcement made. Right? You don't have to be a keto Nazi or a keto police to be like, my god.

This is a keto house. None of that stuff. You never even mentioned that you're changing anything. Kids don't need to know what's going on. They just need you to take care of them.

And so then the next time you go, you're not gonna buy the waffles, but you are gonna buy some sausage or you are gonna buy some bacon or you are gonna buy something that you know they're when they get hungry and they smell you cooking that, they're gonna smash that 100%. But it does take a while for their palate to change if you've already poisoned their palate with all the little fruity pebbles and all that bullshit, it's gonna take a few months, and you don't wanna be militant about it. You wanna be very slow, very loving, very strategic, very diplomatic. You don't even have to talk about it. Just every time you go to the grocery, buy differently.

And if you after about six months of that, you're now living in a proper human diet household. Every single thing that they can go and get out of the pantry or the refrigerator, you don't even have to monitor them anymore because, I mean, oh my god. What if they get into the the the the sirloin strips that you cooked and cut up? What if they sneak in the kitchen and get into them and eat them all? So what?

That's good. I'm glad that happened. So you don't have to police your children, like, stay out of the damn cookie jar. Don't eat all the Lucky Charms. If they get in there and they eat all the eggs and bacon, boom.

I'm glad that they did that. That's a good thing. So it makes it easier to be a parent in the kitchen once you've made that slow loving transition.

It's funny. I I I'm sitting here thinking there's probably we talked about that intuitiveness of of eating. Kids are probably more intuitive when they're eating real foods just like we are. Right? Like, they're not gonna go smash, you know, two pounds of bacon and and, 12 eggs on their own.

I mean, maybe they will, but I'm assuming they regulate their, yeah, they're they're probably gonna regulate a little bit, more intuitively than opposed to just

It's almost like they have hormones that tell them when they're hungry and hormones that tell them when they're full. And if they're uninflamed and unaddicted to sugar, it's almost like they just listen to that. Just like they listen to their body about how many times their heart should beat a minute and how many times they should breathe a minute and when they should go pee and when they should go poop. They don't have to learn that. They just do it.

It just happens. And the same exact thing happens with diet as well. Once you've made the slow transition and they're back on a proper human diet, you're exactly right. They're not gonna eat a dozen eggs. They're not gonna binge on the ground beef because that's not how any mammal on the planet eats unless their diet and their palate has been adulterated by the big food corporations.

Without exception, on the planet, there is no mammal that overeats or binges unless they're they're either they're either eating human trash, human garbage, which basically is big food. Right? Mhmm. Or they're living in a household or a yard where the the human is feeding them an inappropriate species diet. Think about the power of that state.

There is not another mammal on the planet that gets obese unless they do it intentionally because winter's coming. Right? Which is a good strategy. Or they have access to human garbage, in which case they're eating the food that's made the food like Frankenfood bullshit that's made by big food. That alone should tell anybody with any degree of common sense what the answer to this question is.

Yeah. Humans are the only species that can't naturally it seems like we can't naturally regulate our own weight. And then you can pass that to something like a dog. Like, my my dog I have these liver crisps. My dog literally goes crazy if I open liver anywhere near him, and a lot of other animals are like that too.

Yep. It's like they instinctually have this wiring that they know that this is some of the most nutrient dense food that they could put in their body.

Absolutely. And we're that way too. That's my that's the take home message I want everybody listening to this to get. You're just like your dog. You don't have to eat when you're not hungry.

You don't have to keep eating although you're full. All of that stuff is because the big food companies literally employ engineers and chemists to break your physiology. That's that's literally how how they make their billions of dollars. Once you understand that your body just like you're not having to track how many times you breathe a minute.

Mhmm.

Did you forget to breathe in the last sixty seconds? Did you even think about breathing? Yeah. No. You didn't have to.

Your body's got that. And your body also has your hunger, and it has your satiety when you eat a proper human diet. After a few months of that, you you don't get hungry until you truly need nutrition. And then when you eat, you eat until you're comfortably stuffed, and then your hormones shift, and you're like, that's it. I'm done.

And then you don't think about food again for many hours. You get to go outside and do something fun or do something productive. You're not a slave to the kitchen anymore because you have fixed your metabolism by removing the slow poison, which is the modern American, modern standard diet. That's it. That literally is is the answer.

That's such a strong take home message. I think that, a lot of people can relate to that one. If there's so one of the things we talk about a bunch is this idea of self experimentation. If there are people who are just approaching that limit where they're about ready to start experimenting, what would you say to them to get them comfortable taking that leap?

So I'm still very comfortable with a real whole food, one ingredient, low carb diet. I think a proper human diet is a spectrum. I don't think it's just one diet for everybody. And so a proper human diet spectrum is anywhere from a 100 total grams of carbohydrates a day of real one ingredient food that either grew in the dirt or grazed on what grew in the dirt all the way down. Maybe you only need 50 total grams.

Maybe you only need 20 total grams. Or maybe you're like me. You've gotta be as close to zero carbs a day as you can to realize your best health. But anybody, if they wanna do low carb, under a 100 total grams a day with real food, no processed shit, nothing in a cardboard box, I think that's a great way to start this. And then start doing your research.

Start watching YouTube videos, listen to a book or two on Audible, listen to a podcast on the way to work. And before long, you're gonna be like, man, I feel much better eating more more fatty meat, more eggs, and fewer definitely no processed highly processed carbohydrates. I feel much better, or I feel a little better. Either way, it's a victory. Because now you know, oh, food food actually matters.

Because there's nothing that Kellogg's and Kraft Heinz would rather you believe is that it doesn't matter what you eat. It does that has nothing to do with anything. If you're sick, you take a pill. You know, if you're too sick, you just die and you're replaced. There's no big deal because food has no part in that whatsoever.

Now you're you're woke. You know? Oh, man. Food does matter. I wonder what happens.

What would happen if I lowered my carbs even more? I'm gonna try 50 total grams per month. I'm see what happens. So eat more fatty meat and eggs. Eat more real seafood and and less carbs.

I'm gonna see how I feel after a month of that. Oh, boom. I feel a little better. Awesome. I wonder what happened.

And and so then you just start this effortless self experimentation. And then, also, you get to go the opposite direction as well. You're like, I don't you know, I'm eating 20 total grams a day, keto, real food, whole food, one ingredient. I don't know. I think doctor Berry's full of shit.

I'm gonna go to Pizza Hut tonight. I'm gonna have a big salad and about six slices of pizza. But, usually, people only perform that experiment once or twice. Mhmm. Because after you've after you've purified your system and it's back to to your hormones are actually in charge of everything.

When you go off the reservation again, you pay for it. You pay for it. Some people with their gut, some people with their joints, some with their skin, some with their their mental health. Mhmm. It takes a toll on you when you poison your body like that.

And most people only do that once or twice. And then they're like, well, I might cheat a little with a with a keto bar or something, but I ain't never going to Pizza Hut again. That those days are over because I just know better than that now.

Yeah. And that's exactly how I feel with the ulcerative colitis is I know that if I eat certain foods or if I drink alcohol, I'm gonna pay the price for it, so no deliciousness of food is worth the after effects that's gonna come from that.

Right. I hear you know what? I hear that smoking crack is amazing. Yeah. I hear that it's orgasmic.

Right? I've heard that. Yeah. But I've also seen the outcome of of being a routine crack smoker. So, yes, exactly.

It's not worth it. Of course, you can literally feel euphoric on smoking crack, but it's not worth it. It's not worth the sacrifice that you're you're gonna pay long term for doing that. I think you're exactly right.

That's awesome. Well, I feel like that's

an amazing ending point. We covered so much, and we wanna let you get back to your day too. But, doctor Kennett, what's the best way for people to connect with you and also order your book that's out there as well?

So I've got a book that's available at all bookstores called lies my doctor told me. And I think for many people, that's a great first step to realize that not every word that falls from the lips of their doctor is gospel. And and and it I'm not I'm not denigrating doctors. I'm I used to be one of those idiotic doctors that said stupid shit. So get my book, lies my doctor told me, and then I've got over 600 YouTube videos, and it's not just about keto and carnivore.

I've got hundreds of videos about medications, medical conditions. Right? So high blood pressure, diabetes, fatty liver, obesity, beta blockers, statins. So just go to YouTube and search for doctor Barry and then whatever pill you've got a question about or whatever medical condition. So doctor Barry diabetes.

I've probably got 25 or 30 videos that will help you understand what's going on and also help you fix it. Doctor Barry beta blockers, doctor Barry testosterone, doctor Barry statins, doctor Barry fasting. Search that on YouTube, and you're gonna find everything that I have researched and recorded on YouTube. And then also in the show notes of every video where it matters, I've I've got links to the actual research that I use to make that video so you can look it up for yourself.

And you have a whole library almost just of autoimmune videos because when I was starting to tinker with the carnivore, it was like you, Sean Baker, Rob Wolf, and Mark Sisson were the four people that I leaned on the heaviest, but you had all the videos on YouTube that I was able to watch and digest. So it was incredible.

Yep. Crohn's disease, ulcerative colitis, IBS. I could go on and on. Psoriasis, eczema, every acne. Oh my god.

You have a teenager with acne? Proper human diet fixes it. Hundred percent. Yes. Yes.

Yes. There's there should be no child whose acne is so severe that they take Accutane. That's just one example out of hundreds that I could give you. That should not happen to a human being, but it happens every day because we don't know the information that I'm giving away for free on YouTube.

I'm a I'm a ex Accutane, taker, and it it was I wouldn't wish that upon anyone having to go take that. It's act

of congress to get the Accutane. It causes all kind of side effects. If you're a if you're a female, then there's a whole another level of complexity because you cannot you cannot get pregnant while you're on Accutane. Even there's even some research that shows that men taking Accutane should not get a woman pregnant because of the potential disastrous birth defects. And so but that acne is 100% treatable with diet.

With diet.

But you never why would you why would a doctor recommend this potentially deadly medication for a cosmetic condition when it can be completely cured with a diet with zero side effects?

Yeah. That's the perfect

that's the perfect ending note. Right?

Yeah. Absolutely. Doctor Ken, it's been amazing. We'll we'll, you know, we'll have to do this again sometime once we get along here, but the MeetMafia would always open invite here and and just really appreciative of you coming on. This has been really informative for us, and I'm sure a lot of people will get a ton of information out of this one.

So, you know, thank you, and and thanks for all the work that you've done so far.

My pleasure, guys. It was a it was a pleasure to chat with you, and I'm available anytime if you I can help your listeners achieve better health. I'm I'm here for you.

Absolutely. Thanks, doctor Ken.