#383 Justin Nault: Achieving Freedom Through Food

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[00:00:00]

Eat nutrient dense whole foods

don't eat poison

get sunshine on your skin

sleep well

it's so simple man

it's so simple

I had a 15 year music career

the last 10 years was 300 shows a year

at 25 years old

I got a reality TV show

I was on ABC

I had these music videos out

my YouTube was cranking

and I just felt like there's something more

I really resonate with the idea of just feeling

for the first time like

I actually have so much more control of the outcomes that are happening in my life

things that are happening to me

are a direct result of my beliefs

and then the things that I'm actually doing in the world

most people don't come to me

until they're over the age of 35

that you can feel better after

35 years of poison

in 30 days?

This is like a gift from the universe

man

and it's a cheat code

it's literally a cheat code

it's like a 30 day reset

you transform it for your whole life

where do you think most people slip up

in approaching that framework

or where have you seen most people [00:01:00] slip up?

100 percent it's

It doesn't seem like it was too long ago that we were sitting in the sauna catching up here at Squatch Frontier Fitness, which is where we're recording. And um, it was so clear to me that we were going to have a great podcast after we had that conversation. I almost, I was joking with you before, but I wish the cameras were rolling when we were in the sauna because I feel like there was so much juice in there that we were, we were talking about.

But one of the things that I loved about our conversation was just, and I was telling you this before, just, Your story arc. There's so many different things to pull on. Uh, a musician, you know, this background in music where you're super successful. Then you got into the health and wellness space, became an e com entrepreneur, and then are also just a food activist, like, very similar to, like, what Brett and I kind of identify with, which is, you know, our origin story of just talking about what's gone wrong in the food system.

So, super pumped to have you on. Yeah. Uh, I think it's gonna be an amazing [00:02:00] episode. Yeah, me too. I appreciate you having me here, man. And that first conversation, because I remember I, I first came across you, I'd, I'd heard about. Meet Mafia a ton. I didn't know a whole lot about it, and then I went to the daylight computer Oh, right right here right across the way yeah, and I was like man I got a chat with these guys then we set up the sauna session here.

We are what was your first impression hearing meet Mafia? Alignment is the first word that pops in my head. Yeah, right like it cuz like you said with me that You guys are very multifaceted, you know actually thought about you this morning because I was like Bitcoin broke a hundred thousand How's he doing?

But um, yeah just that like you I Think fundamentally when people ask me Not the question of like, what do you do? They're like, what are you trying to do? Right? And for me I'm trying to help people Set themselves free. It's always about freedom, right? It's like, how can you escape toxic diet culture? How can you escape a [00:03:00] toxic food system?

How can you escape toxic jobs, right? If you're going someplace for 40 hours a week, that sucks your soul. It's going to be very difficult to find optimal health and wellness. If you're going home to a toxic relationship, it's going to be very difficult to find optimal health and wellness. So it's like, Just taking your life in your own hands, like what I call, you know, Jocko's term for extreme ownership, right?

Just taking extreme ownership of your own life, which I know a little bit about your story. You just told me a bit is kind of what you did, right? I was a musician. You had a steady gig, good paycheck. Things are looking fine. You know what I mean? Yeah. But it's like, it's almost like something's eating at you.

You have to make changes. So I just felt, I feel like every facet that you guys talk about, I'm like fully in alignment with. Yeah. I think what. Our show has really evolved into is just trying to think from first principles and just ask that question Why as many times as we can? and um invite people on who have that same ethos because It's amazing.

Just like seeing what? Free thinking like people who are ultimately trying to [00:04:00] find that form of freedom for themselves You know, it comes in all the areas of our lives our relationships our jobs Like literally just how we're spending our time and just asking that why question Um It's, it's powerful and I think that, you know, we live in a world where there's just a lot of, uh, fear that traps people, or, or bad information that traps people, um, and that leads to, like, that stagnation.

Um, so, it's cool just, I think just coming across people who resonate with that and, I mean, you've been talking about it, this stuff. Particularly in the health and wellness space for almost 10 years now almost 10 years. Yeah, dude So bring me back to the the early days of paleo where you're you at paleo FX 2016 2016 Yeah, see Rob Wolf.

Yeah, bring me back to that conference. Like what was that? Like dude, it was scary because you know I was in the music industry. I was at the time I was doing you know The last 10 year at a 15 year music career the last 10 years was 300 shows a year at 25 years old I got a reality TV show. [00:05:00] I was on ABC And then, you know, we were talking about video production earlier today, I had these music videos out, my YouTube was cranking, you know, I just released a music video with the Nashville Ballet and it was choreographed by the actual Nashville Ballet, this huge production shoot and everything, and I, I just felt like there's something more than this, you know, and at that time, My niece was born terminally disabled.

She was having over 300 seizures a day. And I know that sounds like a, we're taking a sidetrack here, but it's, it's how the paleo thing happened. Cause around that time, you know, I've always been obsessed with fitness since I was, I played hockey for 10 years and I was a kid, started lifting weights at 15.

I gotten a jujitsu. I was a boxer. I did Olympic lifting, CrossFit twice a day, all these crazy things. And my body just never looked the way that I wanted it to. I felt like I was like really busting my ass and still kind of chubby, you know? Um, and you know, appearance matters in the music industry, so I was always kind of obsessed and had disordered eatings and all these things.

Once I found Paleo, it was a [00:06:00] documentary called The Perfect Human Diet by C. J. Hunt, which is still epic. Go watch it. For sure. I haven't even heard of it. Amazing. It's just like human nutrition through an anthropology lens. I love it. Makes sense, right? It's like, it sounds like that's what we should be thinking about.

Exactly. The, the way I say it to new clients coming into the programs, I'm just like, listen, you could hike through the forest every day for the next a hundred years. You're never gonna stumble upon a bagel tree. Not gonna happen. Where's that bagel tree? They might be making that in the lab somewhere right now, but Exactly.

So that was like this kind of aha moment. And then I did my first Paleo reset and I dropped like 10% body fat. It was, I was like, what? This is like. I don't have to work so hard in the gym. This is crazy. You know, and um, so I started getting really deep into nutrition and studying it just as like a hobby.

I actually became a certified nutritional therapist as a hobby so that my workouts could be more effective and then learn about paleo and all this stuff. And right around that time was when my niece was born. And she was moved to the pediatric ICU. They put a feeding tube in her stomach. It's called a G tube.

She was given less than three years to live. It's [00:07:00] like, she's terminally disabled. This baby's gonna die, basically. So I was at, you know, Vanderbilt Neurology, Centennial Hospital in Nashville, and this was my first introduction to the ketogenic diet. They give these babies a keto diet to stop seizures. And so they put Savannah on a ketogenic diet, but it's mainstream medicine.

So quality is not taken into consideration here. So Gerber makes a baby formula, ketogenic baby formula, called KetoCal. And I checked the ingredients. It's high fat, low carb. But all the fats are vegetable oils. Artificial flavors and sweeteners. Synthetic vitamins, not like usable forms of the vitamins.

Brought it to the neurologist's attention and he said, Huh, I never thought to check that. And that was it. It's like, like, red pill moment for me. That was just like, wheels are off at that point. Exactly. You were going all in on this. Yeah, totally. So it was like, I went all in. And I actually, um, worked on a, a baby formula.

Essentially a baby formula in my kitchen food dehydrators food processors I took paleo superfoods and made these powders you could then mix with water dehydrated powders And I'd read the four hour workweek. I was [00:08:00] hating the music industry at that point I was burnt out going to bed at 6 o'clock in the morning 300 nights a year, you know And I was like I can do something with this, you know It was cleared by Vanderbilt neurology to give to Savannah in her g tube, which was amazing So she's now getting like nutrient dense whole foods instead of toxic sludge but actually took a bunch of Salmon collagen, beef collagen protein, added it to that formula, got an actual manufacturer.

And that was my first ever econ project. Um, so I launched the perfect paleo powder. And one of my like debut moments was paleo effects. up and coming entrepreneur. I didn't know anything about anything. I didn't have the money for a booth. And Michelle and Keith Norris at paleo effects were like, we'll hook you up.

They gave me like a huge discount, gave me a booth at paleo effects. My dad and I stacked hundreds of bottles of perfect paleo powder in an SUV and drove, you know, 19 hours or whatever down to Austin, set up a booth at paleo effects right across the lane from me is dry farm wines. And there's David Allred.

And he's, he's just super friendly. He comes over, says what's up, Hey, we're having [00:09:00] this party, blah, blah, blah, blah. Takes me to this party. I met Rob Wolfe. I met Abel James, who's now back here in Austin. He's one of my best friends. I love him. So I met Rob Wolfe, Abel James, uh, Mark Sisson. First time I met Mark Sisson.

I met Diana Rogers. Wow. And then me. That's it. Diana and Rob ended up working together because I was one of the funders for a sacred cow the documentary in 2016 and Next thing I know I'm like in the middle of paleo effects at the event I'm in my gi and I'm rolling jiu jitsu with Rob Wolfe in the last several years.

You know, it'd been I'm listening to Rob Wolfe's podcast I'm listening to Abel James's podcast. I'm like listen all you get now. They're like my homies I was like it was it was so quick and it was this kind of like It was really kind of my first introduction to I think we kind of create our own reality You You know, yeah, and then here we are Ten years later or whatever.

I guess that was 2016. So eight years since that first paleo effects Mm hmm, but it was transformative man. And the early days it really really, you know paleo effects ended up blowing up a couple years ago or whatever, but It was a super cool community [00:10:00] Like I didn't I don't think I met anybody at paleo effects where I was like this person is fully self serving.

Hmm It was like everyone had a transformation story like Rob Wolf's digestion was horrible for years He couldn't figure it out and people told him to eat whole grains and it got worse and whatever and like Rob I mean Abel had his own transformation story and like was on death's door like doing what his doctor was telling him in his mid twenties Like it was everybody had a story like mine or like my nieces like Savannah's, right?

So like everybody came to this place. We're like, yeah, we're all passionate about entrepreneurship but it was like You know, I think there's a term for it, like passion based profits or something like that. Where it's like, we all cared so much about what we were doing that it felt like a, like a cool little family.

And you mentioned this about when you were coming up early and you met Justin Mayers. Just people that had found so much success are like, in my mind, these people are almost like celebrities because I'm listening to them on a podcast and it feels like celebrity esque. And then they're so sweet. They're so nice.

Like, I was like, you know, Impostor Senior, and I'm like, I've never [00:11:00] had business before with it. And everyone's just like, yo, you want to come hang out? And I was like, yes, I do want to hang out, you know? And it was magic. And I made, like, lifelong friendships and got involved in really cool projects, and here we are.

This might be naive of me to think this, but you said, you know, That was the first time that you, like, thought of, like, you can create your own reality. And I would think that as a musician, there's so much bandwidth in terms of just the person, like, everyone talks about the struggling artist and the first struggling artist I think of as musicians because it's such a hard path to go down.

But I mean, you actually reached a point of having six, uh, large amount of success in music. So like, I would have thought that maybe that was when you, like, were thinking about, uh, you know, that concept of creating your own reality. Yeah. Yeah. Is there something specific about, like, Just like entering a new space and having it kind of just be like a blank slate.

Is that kind of why it felt like that? Yeah, well, by that point I had, I had played with psychedelics, where previously I had not. I'd never, um, done, you know, when I first did [00:12:00] ayahuasca about 10 years ago, my first ever psychedelic experience was ayahuasca in the jungle. I got myself down to Peru and it was terrifying.

Like I did in Mount Everest first, you know, it was like, I'd never taken a mushroom. I never tried anything. Um, but the music industry is like very alcohol heavy. So I drank a lot of alcohol and that was about it. And it never really struck me that I had created this reality. Like, I started playing piano when I was 8 years old.

And adults were freaking out. Like, this is the next Billy Joel. It was, it was crazy. And I became like, kind of a little small town celebrity. Like, in my hometown at 17 years old, I was making 250 bucks an hour playing, playing piano. It was crazy. I was just like, what? And then I went to Berklee College of Music in Boston.

And I placed in all these songwriting contests and stuff. So they took me down to Nashville. And I'm in the studio with Vince Gill and Reba McEntire. And all these, like, huge people. Then I moved down to Nashville and I mean within about eight months of being in Nashville like I heard this thing like you're gonna play for tips and you make 40 bucks a night whatever and I was I was like eight months into my Nashville career and I was making six figures and had a full health benefits and I [00:13:00] was like this starving artist thing is bullshit this isn't true yeah and I really just like turned it into something really cool it was awesome and you know I'm by by 25 I'd like bought a couple houses and stuff and it was it was it was It's actually, you're the first person to ask me that question.

It's odd. I've never gone back and been like, how did I not see that I was creating that reality? I still was of the belief that life was happening to me. Just like, oh, this is how it goes. Things happen in life and like, yeah, I can play piano and seems I can make some money doing it that way. But I was never doing like visualizations or I wasn't meditating.

I wasn't doing anything like that. I just was like, This is how it goes, I guess, you know, as an autopilot, right? Yeah. I guess it's interesting that you, you've been doing music for so long. So like, it's, it just probably felt like more of the same track that you had been on, but this pivot into the health space is so cool.

And I think it's, it's inspiring for a lot of people, you know, like. Brett and myself, neither of us have a background in the health and wellness space. We played college [00:14:00] sports, but us getting into this whole movement started with us writing Twitter threads and just kind of like putting ourself out there.

And I, I really resonate with the idea of just feeling for the first time, like, I actually have so much more control of the outcomes that are happening in my life. Things that are happening to me are a direct result of the, my beliefs and then the things that I'm actually doing in the world. And so, you know, things that had kept me from going out and going after that business idea or just getting into the health and wellness space, you know, that to me always just felt like something I, I wasn't going to be able to do, or, you know.

You know, for whatever reason, it just wasn't a track that I was interested in pursuing right after school. I'm like looking back. I'm like dude. I wish I had just started that track sooner. Yeah But everything happens the time it's supposed to totally yeah And it's an interesting kind of like when the mind tricks that happen in your brain because i'm I think the same thing man Because i'm around so many people like now I know all these like eight and nine figure entrepreneurs, right?

I'm like Man, if I would have found e commerce when I was [00:15:00] 18, I'd be so much richer. You know, it's like that kind of thing. But I'm also like, no man, like all, everything that I went through all actually like catastrophic business things that happened to me are how I ended up in this, this mastermind in Croatia, which is where I met my fiance, my now fiance.

She keynote speaker at this event. Like, um, the, the most successful company I own right now is an Amazon company. I met my Amazon partner at that event. And none of those things could have happened the way that they did because everything happens the only way it could have. We're here in the present moment because it's the only way things could have gone.

Totally. And it's a fun little mind trick to be like, what if I learned e commerce at 18 years old when Google ads were a penny per impression? Yeah. Like, who knows what would have happened, but I wouldn't be here and I, and I love here. I'm happy to be here, you know? Yeah, totally. So, You get through your first paleo effects, you're in the space, what draws you to continue to keep going and just like push further into putting the, because I [00:16:00] think when I think about you and, and the, you know, the style of, you know, you're putting out products, but I really resonate with the content that you put out, you know, you've put out a lot of volume when it comes to podcasts and just great information.

So what kept you kind of going in that direction? Yeah, it was interesting. What happened was, um, I didn't know. I mean now, especially in Austin, right? You throw a rock and you hit a coach, you know, exactly. And that wasn't a thing, you know, in 2016, I didn't really know many people that were doing that. I'd heard of some people doing some cool stuff with click funnels and like lady boss and all these people that were doing some cool stuff.

But I just thought, you know, that the path to like an eight figure exit was like start a physical product brand, you know, so I was doing the supplement stuff and then. I did not know what I was doing and I got involved with people who made big promises and turned out to be total shysters and I lost a boatload of money.

There was an actual criminal lawsuit like me and four other people [00:17:00] sued these people and like I'm not supposed to talk about it or whatever but like it was gnarly and I lost a ton of money up front in my first entrepreneurial endeavor. I'd manufactured a bunch of product that expired and had thousands of dollars of product got thrown away.

It was really not good and I was so afraid or I was like, I can't spend money on this stuff, man. I can't lose any more money and I had learned about Gary Vee, and he's just talking about like just make content like the the content model It's like the Gary Vee content model or whatever. I was like, okay And I just went live on Facebook one day and I called it and asked me anything I heard that term on reddit or Twitter or whatever.

I was like, I'll do an ask me anything Because I've been researching for years at this point health and wellness and then just my friends on Facebook who started asking me questions And I'd talk about like, you know a one versus a to dairy and people like what I've never heard of this And I was like really I kind of thought that some of the things I knew were Common knowledge and I realized they weren't so that asked me anything.

I did it on a Wednesday night And I ended up doing that for 115 weeks straight. [00:18:00] Wow. And following Gary Vee's content model of just like, I'll make Instagram posts about it. I'll make YouTube posts about it. And that was when the community took off. I started a private Facebook group. That private Facebook group now has 11 and a half thousand members.

I have 650, 000 social media followers, email lists, the whole thing. And that was when Everything shifted for me because yes, I was passionate with what happened with Savannah And I I thought that my powder was the best powder in the world and it could help people. I Didn't realize yet The extent to which I could help people.

And I remember I made 400 custom nutrition plans for 400 individual people for free. Wow. And I was like, just send me before and after pictures. And people were dropping like a hundred pounds. And I'm getting video testimonies of people crying that are like, you have completely changed the way that I see the world.

This whole food versus poison thing changed my whole life. My kids are eating better, blah, blah, blah. And I have goosebumps talking about it. You know, I was like, I didn't know this was going to happen. And then connecting the dots, when I look back, I'm like, my video content was popping off so [00:19:00] quick, and I was like, Oh, dude, I hit my 10, 000 hours of stage time when I was 20.

You know? So like, getting on camera was so easy. I didn't have a lot of the same fears of people like, Someone's gonna make fun of me or judge me or whatever. It's just like, the camera turns on and I can be myself in front of the camera. Mm, totally. You know? So it all really kind of lined up perfectly.

And that was it really. Like the, when I look back and ask me anything, they're just, they're still in my podcast. I'll say like, AMA number one, AMA number two, whatever. And like, that's how this whole thing happened. And then after paleo effects, people like Rob and Abel and Diana Rogers, like, I'll come on your podcast.

You know, I started Paul Saladino. I interviewed Paul when, when nobody knew who Paul was, you know, and it was just, it just kind of happened in this way where then I just became Deeply passionate about spreading information, but I didn't know it was an option until it presented itself as an option to me, you know, yeah It's so cool seeing how your music career actually like perfectly set you up for what what your true passion ended up being in life Um, and I wanted to ask you that beforehand Like was there anything else that you [00:20:00] see like look just looking backwards connecting all the dots Was there any other experience that you had?

Early on that has really helped propel you forward and have some of that early success moving into a new space You I mean, I think it was really, I mean, one, I, my reality show was on ABC, you know, so I was part of a global talent search for musicians and it was whittled down to top 11 from the planet.

And I was like, what? And I was one of them. They took me to LA and I'm like, in the, in this, uh, kind of hotel, like, like a hotel Hall, banquet hall or whatever and they bring in an upright piano and I'm playing for like the creator of the real world and the creator of the amazing race and like ABC's there and sponsored by Budweiser or whatever.

And then they whittled that top, that wasn't aired, that was them whittling it down to top three which was the TV show filmed in Vegas and I was top three. And I was the American. And I didn't realize they were doing this like country thing. It was me and a girl from Canada and a girl from the UK. So it's the comfort in front of a camera.

that I didn't realize [00:21:00] was gonna be so powerful. Like, being on stage and playing live and everything, like, that was cool. But it was really, it's this. Like, lights, camera, action. Dude, I know so many people which has epic messages and epic things to share. And I've tried to interview them or film them. Like, we have friends that are becoming influencers.

And I mean, like, they're so smart. Yeah. They will transform the world with their knowledge. And they're so cool. They're best friends. We hang out. I love them. And then you turn a camera on and they're like, Just a different person. Hello. I would like to tell you about my knowledge. Right. It's like I'm Ron Burgundy.

And I'm like and I want to like help them so bad. And I realize like I'm so grateful for all of those experiences that I had, the very high pressure situations under cameras where I'm like, this is nothing to me. You know, it's like I'm able to. I don't mean that in some way of like look at how good I am in front of a camera, but I mean, I'm comfortable enough.

To explain the information in my mind in a way that gets [00:22:00] across to people. Does that make sense? Yeah, like I said here you're like, what do you want to talk about Mike? Do you guys want to have a conversation? That's it. Like let's just let it go where it's gonna go Mm hmm. I don't think I could do that without the level of comfort behind a camera.

Yeah, or in front of a camera I should say I love that Is there anything when you started that Facebook community and started putting more content out there? Was there anything in particular that? You kept going back to where people were really resonating with was it the weight loss stuff or was there other things in there that?

People were really drawn to It was always weight loss man, and I talk about that to this day It's like I I am very public about the fact that Clovis is a Trojan horse. Mm hmm. I think Controversial thoughts, right? I think the number one reason for the obesity epidemic is people are Not living the life that they are supposed to live and the life that they want to live They have trapped themselves in prisons of their own making terrible jobs, terrible relationships, or it's that, you know, they've been overweight their whole lives.

So they lack confidence. So they choose terrible partners that don't treat them well because they have low self worth and they don't know what they, they don't think that they deserve [00:23:00] the life of their dreams or whatever. Like the health and wellness journey. is 100 percent a personal development journey.

It has very little to do with information. Which diet do you follow? And that's why people, oh, veganism changed my life. Carnivore changed my life. Keto changed my life. They all change your life, man. Yeah. Like, if you remove toxic poison from your diet, you're gonna get healthier. You know, so it was the concept of food versus poison that I was just hammering on all along the way and I was getting destroyed for it at the time, right?

It's so nice now that we have make America healthy again and are okay I don't care where you stand politically like getting Poison out of our food system is important. Yeah, and it should be apolitical. It should be apolitical for sure So now that it's in the mainstream Sort of like I used to what do we call it like people are aware of seed oils people are aware that we have toxic Ingredients in our food in America that's banned in other countries.

That's really important for people to know So that's what I just kept harping on over and over and over and what's interesting from a sort of a spiritual mindset Perspective is like if I look at it like a like a pyramid of like self [00:24:00] actualization, right? The base is we are energy creation machines.

That's what we do. All of our cells create energy and that's how we function. Depressed and anxious subjects in clinical studies, they make 20 percent less ATP. Depression is a low energy problem. Anxiety is a low energy problem. Obesity is a low energy problem. We're told it's a too much energy problem.

It's a low energy problem. Everyone is in such a low energy state, they wake up in the morning, they hate what they see in the mirror, and they're like, oh. Whatever, I'll just grab a bagel and a Dunkin Donuts caramel macchiato, whatever, and I'll get in traffic and drive to this job that I hate where nobody respects me.

And you're sitting there like, how, how do you expect your life to look the way that you want it to live when you're making these choices? But it's this vicious cycle. It's like chicken or the egg. Well, you hate the way your body looks. You hate the way you feel when you wake up. So why not just go to a place you hate?

Everything else sucks anyway, right? And it's this like kind of spiraling thing. So I use it as a Trojan horse because when I could get people to just [00:25:00] Remove poison then all of a sudden the conversation shifted right it's like someone come to me day one like I hate my body I need to lose 20 pounds in the next seven days, or I'm everything will suck You know it's like it's just like terrible I just couldn't get past like fat versus skinny Mm hmm and I would explain to people all of the health and wellness problems you have all of them every single one is Just a result of your body not having had a long enough period of time without being poisoned Mm hmm we have been poisoned since we were little babies Right?

Medicine, baby formula, everything. So what ends up happening after, if you give me just 30 days, and we get on a coaching call day one and the coaching call day, day 31, and you have not taken in any poison, the questions are different, man. It's a different person. It's a different person. We have peeled away layers of the onion in programming and all of a sudden they're like, man, they want to talk to me about, you know, communication in their romantic relationship or you know what?

It's so interesting. I realized I had like a lot of toxic stuff in my diet and I cleaned it [00:26:00] up and now then I was at work and I was like, man, these people don't, don't treat me very well. Like my superior is kind of a dick, you know? And it's, it's, it's crazy. It's like, like we were saying earlier. I didn't know in the past that I was creating my own reality.

I didn't really understand that. I was just on autopilot. These people are so on autopilot, they get their cells functioning better, and they start asking better questions, and they start analyzing their life as a whole. And I have this video called The Clovis Philosophy, where I helped them connect every aspect of their life, like health, wealth, relationships, community, everything.

And it all plays together in this big giant puzzle that you have to put together for like holistic health. And that was it, man. Like, get the poison out of their systems, Their questions start to change and all of a sudden I had people in the Clovis Academy, the Facebook group, that are driving across state lines to meet their friends that they met in the group and people quitting their jobs and starting their own business.

We have a bunch of multi million dollar businesses. that were started from people listening to my podcast. They quit their job. They start an Amazon company like I did with the paleo powder and they start making money. And it's like, that's when I realized I was like, [00:27:00] Oh, I teach freedom. I don't teach weight loss, but so many people are trapped in the obsession with body image and weight loss that when they're like, Hey, I really need to lose weight.

And I'm like, yeah, I know I got you. Come on in. The water's fine, right? And then 90 days later, it's like, what else do you want to work on? Let's move into the more important shit. You know, dude, I resonate so much with what you're saying. Just particularly in terms of just the veil that gets lifted. Once you start eating properly, the first, my first, I've had a few different stints with just, I think like early on playing baseball.

I was very serious about performance, but mostly in the context of being in the gym. And so I wasn't eating entirely like per like I wasn't eating perfectly and that showed up in a lot of different ways. Like in high school, I was just eating the lunch, like all the stuff that they put out for lunch, pizza, chips, subs, like all of it.

And I was just hammering in the weight room. So it didn't show up anywhere other than like I had bad skin [00:28:00] issues. And then I get to college. Continuing to go down the rabbit holes of how I perform better working out in the gym really well And then started doing a paleo diet that was like a complete aha moment for me I was like, oh my gosh if I fuel this This you know meat machinery that I have properly.

Yeah, I just think so much better Yeah, and then I kind of like shifted back down shifted back into corporate job slowed down slower energy state basically all the things that you're talking about and When kovat hit it was kind of that paradigm shifting moment for me started just really prioritizing my health again in a way that I Really hadn't been in the last the last handful of years and got on a keto diet You And within a month, like, the amount of progress I had made from just a, like a physical, spiritual, mental standpoint was incredible.

I was sleeping more, my body was the best that [00:29:00] it's felt in a long, long time, and um, I was having these just incredible thoughts and beliefs that like, Okay, I'm gonna get out of this job. I'm gonna figure out what's next what my purpose is here Like that was the that was a catalyst moment for me. My whole life was Tapping into like 30 days of eating.

Well, yeah, you know, it's that quick. It's that quick Yeah, and it's so funny because people will come to me and they're they're upset about how long it takes to get healthy to truly get healthy, right? Cause like if you're 300 pounds and you want to look like we were joking about our buddy Kyle Kingsbury and you want to look like Kyle Kingsbury, like you're probably on a 10 year journey to go from 300 pounds to Kyle Kingsbury.

Right. But you can go from 300 pounds to 180 pounds in a year, year and a half, two years. Right. And your entire life will transform. And it feels like this thing takes so long. You're like, dude, 30 days of truly cleaning up the diet is transformative. And when you think about the fact, most people don't come to me until they're.

Over the age of 35 [00:30:00] that you can feel better after 35 years of poison In 30 days? This is like a gift from the universe man, and it's a cheat code It's it's literally a cheat code It feels like super mario brothers like you ate the mushroom and you grow and you're more powerful But it's like a 30 day reset can be transformative for your whole life So, how do you think about everything that you've done in the context of all the work that you've put out there the lives that?

You've transformed and now we have this Maha movement come along. Yeah, it's it's like the most exciting time to be in health and wellness. I think it's incredible There's never I mean, it's again. It's one of those reality creation things where I'm like, did I make this happen? Did I do this? Dude, you played a huge part in it.

Yeah, that's the you know I think so, right and and I don't mean that from like a like obviously I'm not the guy behind KC and Kelly means and RFK has been doing this for 40 years man He's been going after everybody poisoning civilians for 40 years. So the people have been doing this for a long time Yeah, but it's when you If you believe in something like the collective [00:31:00] consciousness or whatever you want to call it right is like yeah More people are waking up and a groundswell happens and it starts to push like, you know I told you this and sparing names, I recorded a podcast in this room two years ago that got pulled down off YouTube because too much hate was coming at it.

And literally all I was saying is like, maybe eat foods that exist in nature and get some sunshine and get good quality sleep and don't eat poison. And it was like the most controversial thing and we got attacked ruthlessly and that creator was having nasty DMs sent to him and all this stuff. And there has to come a tipping, a tipping point has to happen where that sort of hate isn't happening anymore, right?

And now we have On a national and global level conversations about seed oils and toxic ingredients and food and everything I could not be more excited about it, man. It's amazing. And when I started seeing people like Rogan and Chris Williamson, like having, uh, Callie and Casey means on and I'm like, man, this is [00:32:00] epic.

This is like truly a society changing shift. Yeah, it's a big deal. I feel like we're all standing on the shoulders of giants, but it's been, it's been a lot of. Yeah. Big and small contributions from a lot of people who are just like, I'm going to make this my life's purpose. Like I heard you were on a podcast, um, I forget the name of the gentleman, but I was watching the YouTube video and he was, he was saying, you know, this is my God given purpose to be talking about this stuff.

And he had a medical background. It was super cool hearing him say that. And I just, I do feel like there's a lot of people, like, I think a Marxist and just like all the work that he's been doing. And, and Rob, I mean, he's, he's brunted. He's taken so much heat and flak for some of the stances that he's made, and it does feel like we're entering this period where now these people are going to start to be acknowledged for a lot of the work that they've been doing and a lot of the sacrifices they've made, um, but it's hard not to just be optimistic.

Yeah, yeah. I heard somebody [00:33:00] talk about this the other day because I think about this with Rob. Like, I'm looking at your, your element drink. Yeah. Right? And like, Rob has now absolutely crushed as an entrepreneur. He's doing very well. Yeah. He doesn't have to get on the internet and help you change your life.

He wants to. RFK doesn't have to do what he's doing. He wants to, you know, so it really is this thing where people are so passionate and they're so driven about this thing that they're doing and it's so meaningful for them. And that's the thing is, I think that people, I think people can feel that energy, the Marxist and the, the Rob Wolfs of the world and everything where it's just like, man, Rob's been doing this for 20 plus years, man.

I don't even know how long he's been doing it. Mark Sisson with like Mark's Daily Apple, his first thing he did. I talked to Abel James about it. His first thing was um, man, I forget he, oh, Honest Abe. He had a blog called Honest Abe before he did Fat Burning Man. And so like people are really passionate about spreading this message, message, and I think that it's like the difference here, and I always get into trouble when I start talking about credentials, but the guy that I was talking with Justin, uh, Justin Roethling chauffeur.

I was [00:34:00] struggling with his last name, Justin Roethling chauffeur, and he owns Own It Health. And we had this great conversation where like, he's got a master's degree and he was going for his Ph. D. and everything, and like, actually left the Ph. D. program when he was close to getting it, because it's like, this is nonsense.

And now he has this team of registered dietitians and M. D. 's that he calls the misfits of academia that were like, this is not right. We know this isn't isn't right. Right. So people that are like passionate enough to come at this from a place of care, which is where The podcast that I had that got pulled down and all that stuff is people that are fully bought into the dogma of mainstream academia, the medical system, not realizing their textbooks are funded by pharmaceutical companies and that kind of thing.

And they're just like, you sit down and shut up because I'm a PhD and you're not right. And the number of people that have come through Clovis that have been listening. Gaslit and drugged to death by every doctor they've ever gone to and they don't feel heard. They don't feel understood. They feel like nobody's listening to them.

Everyone's calling them liars and gaslighting them. I had a client once who was in her 50s. She held a master's degree in nutrition and like nutrition [00:35:00] sciences or whatever and could never lose weight for 30 years was obese. And she's like, I can't figure this out. She's like, the number of like 25 year old shirtless planet fitness trainers who have told me I don't track calories properly.

It's just this constant gaslighting. You can feel the energy is different, right? It's like there's there are all these people out in the world that are like sit down with me. Let's have a conversation. I used to do this on my podcast. I have 90 minute long conversations with people. Clients, people who have never been on a podcast or in front of a camera in their lives that lost 100 plus pounds.

And I'm like, will you, it's going to be very gentle conversation. Don't worry, we're going to get on. We're going to talk like friends. Can you just tell people what you've been through? And it was amazing. It was like super powerful content of these people just sharing their journey. And when I asked them, like, what drew you to Clovis?

Like, you're the first person that told me I've been lied to. And that this is not entirely my fault. And that I don't lack willpower and I'm just a lazy slob that can't get their shit together. Like, you're the first person who felt like you were fighting for me. Fighting with me. Rather than talking at me.

Of like, listen, I'm a PhD. And I'm telling you it's calories in, calories [00:36:00] out. You're saying you're eating 900 calories a day and you're still fat. You are a liar. So, how about you get your shit together? Nobody wants to be helped quote unquote in that energy in that way, you know, that's really what I love right now Is it really feels like?

Society has people that are fighting on their behalf And that's magic. Yeah, I totally agree and it's amazing seeing people's belief system shift Like that's really what's happening in that instance going from the credentialed phd. Who's just giving you Blanket advice and kind of almost keeping you trapped in a limiting belief whereas you're like, oh Let's shift this whole, this framework that you're looking at this problem through and empower you to make these changes.

And, I think at the end of the day, like I would love to get your take on Calories In, Calories Out, and why you, like, the, the reason why you think that model, It just shouldn't be as prevalent as this sure I mean one I think The biggest problem in health and wellness right now is the [00:37:00] illusion of authority And I think that that's true in every aspect of everything, right?

Like there's a great book on this called weapons of mass instruction. Mm hmm. That is about how the public school system was literally designed to I Guess the word would be infantilize Adults, it was trying to keep people Young the infant mind as long as humanly possible so you can then move them into factory work and all this stuff You're literally stunting their maturity.

You know, it's like founding fathers, whatever We had 12 year olds that are sailing ships to different countries and fighting wars and stuff And now it's just like we got 28 year olds like vaping and addicted to porn in their mom's basement Exactly, and we're trying to fix that right but the calories in calories out thing This happens all the time.

We're like we'll make videos about how it's not about calories It's about nutrient density micronutrients, whatever and everyone's just like Thermodynamics, right? And they throw this thermodynamics term out there. Nothing calories in, calories out on its face is technically true in some ways where it's like thermodynamics is real, right?

Like if you don't have enough energy in the system, [00:38:00] the system, the human body, which is like an open energy system is going to conserve energy in some way, shape or form. The best way for to do that is actually to store body fat. It's actually makes more sense for the system to attack its own lean tissue than it does to tap into those body fat stores for a number of reasons.

One, because fat is the most energy dense. So if we're trying to store energy for later, it makes sense to store something that's nine calories per gram instead of four, less than half, right? And then also our fat cells are storing toxins. So a fast way, you know, lipids are hydrophobic. So to pull toxins out of the system, our bodies will store toxins and fat cells.

There's a number of reasons why storing fat is incredibly beneficial, right? I always try to help clients shift this we flip it on its head. Your body's not doing anything wrong when you're getting fat Oh my god, I'm so fat. It's like yeah, because your body is trying to protect you. It's trying to adapt To an unnatural environment that you've placed it in, right?

So what happens when obese people come to any trainer nutritionist? Whatever's I feel cold all the time. My hair is thinning [00:39:00] and falling out. I have no libido. I'm in a bad mood I'm depressed and i'm anxious and I have no energy to get out of bed in the morning, right? Does that sound like a too much energy problem?

No, of course not. They're all coming to us with low energy symptoms and it's because of the idea of Energy balance energy in energy out is actually potential energy in An actual energy out, like if you have a car that's full of gasoline and no spark plugs, there's no energy in that car, there's potential energy, there's a full gas tank of potential energy, but you need a catalyst for the energy to be created.

We need a catalyst at the level of the entire, like going from glycolysis and beta oxidation through the Krebs cycle into the electron transport chain to actually generate ATP in the body. We need all these little steps all along the way that all include micronutrients, right? So the shift away from nutrients and on to calories is very detrimental because if someone's metabolism is completely dysfunctional and You start feeding them a thousand calories a day This is where you end up, what we now have [00:40:00] an epidemic of, is where you end up with sarcopenic obesity.

Which are people that are clinically obese, which is just a clinical term for at least 30 pounds or more overweight, and they have osteoporosis. Like, their bones are brittle. And you're gonna feed that person 1, 200 calories a day, 1, 000 calories a day, right? The problem is only going to get worse, and then they're gonna get old, they're gonna fall down and break their hip and die on their kitchen floor.

It's insane, man. Like, so, I'm trying to help people see when they say this, like, Oh, bro, they'll leave these troll comments, bro forgot about thermodynamics. It's like, no, no, I'm well aware of thermodynamics. Yeah, your comment is displaying your ignorance of thermodynamics because yes, if we don't have enough calories for the body to do what it needs to do.

It's going to strip tissue to make up the energy difference. You cannot guarantee that that is coming from body fat, which is why you have all these bros, the gym bros that are 21 years old or 25 years old or whatever. And they have time they're in the gym six days a week and they're eating, you know, White rice and chicken [00:41:00] every day and yes, their body is going.

Holy shit. This guy is lifting a ton of weights for 90 minutes a day. We need to preserve this muscle mass and we're going to pull from other things. So they start to burn body fat and all these things. It works for them. And they're like, look, thermodynamics right with me. I've experimented myself so much that I understand when I stripped down to 8 percent body fat.

My testosterone is 250. I'm 14 percent body fat right now, and I'm 38 years old on zero supplements, and my testosterone is 850, which is amazing for my age, right? It's so simple, man. Like, it's so crazy for us to tell people who are in a low energy state to consume less energy. And the entire complexity and the madness of it, and the people are like, oh my god, my calories, this, this, it all goes away if you just don't eat poison.

Yeah. Yeah. You can go eat 2, 500 calories a day, as a woman, of real, nutrient dense, whole foods. And what's gonna happen? Your metabolic rate is gonna skyrocket. So one of the first things I have clients do is we take their morning temperature. When they before [00:42:00] they've even rolled out of bed. Some women come to me, their their core body temperature in the morning is 94 degrees.

Mmm. This is a walking corpse, brother. Jeez. You need energy to function. We have to kill this idea of calories in, calories out. And I don't care, man, when somebody comes to me and they're like, Look at me. I have a six pack, right? I actually I have a term for it now. I call it infertile six packs The number of men running around that are that are giving advice online Follow me to be healthy and they're completely bald because they don't know that bald is a hypothyroid state They're probably on TRT or something.

They're on TRT. They're on peptides. They're doing a cold plunge every morning. They're doing intermittent fat, right? It's like they they have the freedom. It's like yeah go tell I had a woman named Shannon. I have a video testimony for her and um, she's, she's like screaming my stuff from the rooftops, tell everybody about it.

She was homeschooling eight kids when she came to me. She lost over a hundred pounds with me. Do you know how many times she went to the gym? Zero. Did not step foot in a gym. Lost over a hundred pounds while homeschooling eight kids. Wow. So Mr. 25 year old bro with a six pack that's, you know, working at [00:43:00] Planet Fitness for 40 bucks an hour, He doesn't get to tell Shannon.

Just do what I do. Yeah. No. You can fuck right off. Move along. You know? So I know these people leave these comments like that. They're not working with real people, with real lives, with responsibilities. People who depend on them, jobs that they work, homeschooling 8 kids, whatever. You know? So it's very disheartening for these people.

They're getting yelled at. By these humans with like quite unnatural bodies, you know, that are just like I'm shredded. Listen to me. Yeah. Yeah it's like you have authority because exactly, you know, you're able to Portray yourself in a certain way because you're young your body reacts Well to all the different stimulus that you're giving it and yeah, you know for the average person who's just looking for actual health advice the calories in calories out model I think you phrased it perfectly and framed that really well where it's like, you're under you're not getting the amount of nutrients that you need to have energy and be healthy and support all of the, you know, your hormonal balance, your energy [00:44:00] levels, all of it, and it's coming at a cost, um, you know, I think you can think that you'll lose that weight, but, um, by just cutting calories, but at the end of the day, you're looking at it.

This narrow lens of your health when it's a much broader picture, there's much a broader scope there. Yeah, here's the most important thing, right? And this is like when we get into credentials and everything. I always joke and I say my credentials are that there are Clovis tattoos. So when people start tattooing your brand on them because you changed their lives, we can talk about your credentials.

Winning. Yeah, no, exactly. So we have something, we have a term in my primary company is called Clovis. And we have a term called Clovis Babies. Clovis Babies are when a woman comes to me and they have at least one failed attempt at IVF. Trying to get pregnant through IVF. Some people have two, three rounds.

They've spent 150, 000 trying to do IVF therapy and them and their partner cannot get pregnant. They come to Clovis. Twelve months later, they're conceiving naturally. It's like magic. Seems like [00:45:00] magic, right? The magic is stop eating poison and eat way more food. I'm often doubling these women's caloric intake.

Literally. Doubling their food intake. Their skin issues clear up. They feel better. Their depression goes away. They get the number of women. I've gotten off antidepressants I don't even know. I have no idea how many gotten off birth control, whatever, right? Well, and then so then I get these pictures of these video testimonials of women crying and like pictures of them with their big baby Bump and they're like Clovis, baby You know It's dude if you think about it, right if you're like you said you're meat machine If you're meat machine is just trying its best to survive and feel as good as it can and optimize its own health You And you say, alright, listen, we're gonna feed your meat machine a thousand calories a day.

And now you're like in this starvation mode and your hair is falling out and you're tired and you're anxious and all this stuff. And then you say, now please support another human life. It's not going to happen. You're sending a signal to the human machine, which is just an adaptation machine. The input coming into the adaptation machine [00:46:00] is there is famine in this environment.

For whatever reason, this human is not feeding me enough, not feeding my machine enough, right? The spirit that is inside this avatar is not feeding us enough. There's not enough resources to go around. Why would we bring another mouth to feed Right into a famine? We wouldn't do it. It doesn't make any sense.

Right. You know, so it's like, it's how do you, how do you get these Clovis babies? Like what? What are, I don't know if people think I'm like injecting them with hormone. I'm not a doctor. I can't write them prescriptions. Right. Right. So I'm not injecting them with hormones, not doing anything. Just eat more.

Right. Eat more food. And when you break it down like that, it's so simple. It's like food in any amount is only good for you. Mm. But you have to be very careful about what you call food because poison in any amount is only bad for you. So the idea of everything in moderation and calories and calories, it's, it's nonsense.

It doesn't make any sense. And I don't understand what, like a lot of the people that are pushing this are incredibly intelligent people. You know, I don't know if you heard my podcast with Steve when I was on radical health radio, people ask me why I [00:47:00] don't fight back. Right? If people make a Stitch video, or they, you know, say something about me, or call me names, or whatever, it's because I genuinely love all of those people, man.

Mm hmm. They're perfect, exactly as they are. And they're also helping people. They're helping their target demographic, right? Like Lane Norton has probably helped more 25 year olds than I can count bench press more weight and get a six pack, right? They're doing great work in the world, man. It's amazing.

That's it, right? It's like, I'm not tied to the thing where like, why would I go fight in this? I'm not speaking to them. I'm not trying to change their mind about something. I'm talking to the people who are feeling desperate and are feeling left behind and feeling gas lit and all these things. They're the people that I'm talking to.

That's the importance of the message, right? I'm not really interested. In fighting over these things. Yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah, totally. I feel like diet culture, this is honestly just our culture in general. Like everyone has this, everyone, but people have this deep desire to be right. Yeah. And it's like, I just love people who are like, I'm going to.

Put out there what [00:48:00] I know to be true and get results and not fight these battles every day. Like, you wasting your energy fighting with Lane Norton does no good for the person who, you know, is homeschooling eight kids and needs your help, you know? Yeah, yeah. And I also think all these people are probably amazing outside of like influencer life.

Yeah, I say a lot of time. I mean, I'm sure there are people that have made videos about me or whatever We're like if neither one of us were influencers, whatever that word means, right? If neither one of us were influencers and we just met in a social setting in austin, we'd probably be friends Yeah, probably we have a lot of common interests.

A lot of these guys, you know, we we all lift weights We roll jiu jitsu we do whatever, you know, we'd be homies for sure. Yeah, but it's not that way on social media Yeah, social media is a bloodbath. Totally You Um, going back to the IVF conversation, does it surprise you how many women are not eating enough food?

It's all of them. That's crazy. I've never had a woman come to me eating enough food. Not one single time. And this is the thing, right, when you break it down to nutrients, too, um, it's like, [00:49:00] maybe they are eating 3, 000 calories a day, and maybe that's too much food for them. But any woman who comes to me that's eating 3, 000 calories a day, their diet's 75 percent ultra processed food.

Wow, so is it the calories that's the problem or the fact that they're taking in all those calories that are nutrient poor They're not even getting vitamins and minerals, right? One of my favorite books for like removing the dogma of this stuff is eat like the animals Hmm and eat like the animals talks about this across the whole animal kingdom from like flies up to tigers and humans is like Seems to be about at least 15 percent total calories from protein Satiates the body, but then we have food engineers And this is what RFK talks about all this stuff is we have these food engineers that make food as addictive as possible You and I talked about Philip Morris and the cigarette companies buying food companies and all this stuff It's like the reason for that is they shifted the the all the language to calories and Justin rothing chauffeur And I talked about this because it's easier to just be like we'll eat this 90 calorie bar because it's low calories and it's healthy for you and they take the focus off of [00:50:00] nutrients Right So if someone's eating 3, 000 calories a day and they're obese, is it the calories that's the problem or the fact that they're in a low energy state because they don't have enough micronutrients for their metabolism to function properly?

You know, because we could keep them at 3, 000 calories a day. And shift it to 100 percent nutrient dense whole foods. They're eating nothing but like, grass fed beef, and like, pasture raised poultry, and whole eggs, and organic fruits and vegetables, and like, sweet potatoes, right? That's their whole diet.

And they're still eating 3, 000 calories a day. Their life is going to improve. Their health is going to improve. They are going to lose body fat. Right? So again, we get into thermodynamics. I have one client right now. And, again, all these people are like, you can make this stuff public if you want. If anybody wants this, DM me.

Go to JustinAltOfficial on Instagram, DM me, and text me DEXA. And I'll send you this guy's results. Because he's been the last, he's been in the program for 90 days. All my programs are 90 days. And he has access to a DEXA machine. So he keeps doing these DEXA scans. And his body weight has only shifted by about six pounds, but it's two lines.

Lean muscle mass straight [00:51:00] up, body fat percentage straight down. And this is what we call recomposition. So this is the Holy grail of health and wellness. I don't care much if your body fat's going, I mean, if you, if your scale weight is going down, if you're 375 pounds, which I've had clients in that, in that situation, you're facing morbidity.

This is like morbidly obese is like a medical term, right? We have to drop weight as quickly as possible. And I'm willing to do some things that are more stressful. That are not necessarily optimally healthy to get weight off quickly because it's such a problem. But if some guy comes to me and he's 200 pounds and he's 6 feet tall and he's like, Dude, I just want to be like, you know, I'm 25 percent body fat and I want to be 15 percent body fat.

I'm like, cool, let's go. We're not going to worry about the scale weight. We're not going to worry about the thermodynamics of are you technically losing tissue, right? I want to re comp. We want to get rid of the body fat and either preserve lean muscle mass or even build lean muscle mass at the same time.

Right, so I have a client here. That's in a calorie deficit that is building muscle and losing body fat in the calories in calories out world They'll say that that's impossible [00:52:00] because thermodynamics so they have to have a deeper understanding of thermodynamics and how it works Right if you're in a calorie deficit, yes, you may lose some tissue But you may also build tissue elsewhere if you're lifting weights and things like that.

Hmm, right, so it's a little more complex It's just you, you have to pay attention to the whole, the whole puzzle. And it's like you said earlier, when you're, you're thinking improved, once you started to like fuel your body properly and everything, we're talking about critical thinking skills. We're talking about complex systems, thinking in complex systems and understanding what does thermodynamics mean in an open energy system versus a closed energy symptom, a closed energy system.

right? What does it mean to be losing tissue? Why does that happen? What drives what type of tissue is lost? All these things, these questions have to be answered, you know? And the thing is that last two minutes of me talking to some people might be like, that's really confusing, right? So it's like, okay, let's go back.

Yeah. Eat nutrient dense, whole foods. Don't eat poison, get sunshine on your skin, sleep well. It's so simple, man. [00:53:00] It's so simple. I really, the whole time you're talking, I'm like, why? I wish doctors would approach health the way you're talking about it. And do you think about that ever? I do. Yeah. And I, I have amazing friends who are doctors.

I have a network of the best doctors all around the world. Right. And Justin is an example of this. He has his team at own elf. It's like fantastic doctors. And if anybody wants to talk to Justin and be intro to Justin, just DM me on Instagram. I'll put you right in touch with Justin. You can talk to him.

Right. So then they have MDs that can do blood work and they have registered dietitians on their teams. They have therapists on their team and everything. It's Understanding that there are, he calls them the misfits, right? It's like Paul Saladino. Paul Saladino's a doctor. Yeah. You know, he became this. Ken Barry's a doctor, right?

All these different doctors that are all over the place that are waking up to this, that have done their own research, that have kind of rejected the mainstream narrative. There are amazing doctors that know way more than I do, right? The issue there, and this is where we [00:54:00] can get into some of your stuff, cause you're going to be way more well versed in this, like the, the economics of this whole thing is, when I tell people that, Hey, let me introduce you to this doctor who knows what I know, right?

And, can write you prescriptions and do whatever else you need, right, a primary care physician. People come back, yeah, well, but does he take insurance? He doesn't. The best doctors in the world don't accept insurance. They operate outside of the system. So now again, we're back to freedom, right? So when you're in a situation where you really actually do need medical treatment because your health is so far gone, because there's absolutely a place and time for medical treatment, there are fantastic doctors that do incredible work, but it's like, oh, you have Blue Cross Blue Shield.

So it's like, here are your people that you can go see. You don't even get to choose your own practitioner, dude. Right. That's crazy. Yeah. Right? We've chosen them for you. Exactly. I will never, ever exist in a world where someone is in charge of a paycheck that comes to me. I'm not gonna do that. Someone is in charge of what doctor I can see.

What place I can travel. I'm not, I don't [00:55:00] play those games, man. Yeah. Like, I want full freedom of access to whatever I want to access, and then that's a whole different story, where it's when people who have, for 40 years, they've been going to a job where they have health benefits and a 401k, and they go see this doctor or whatever.

So, to your question about doctors, there are, those doctors exist. It's just access is difficult. Yeah Yeah, the Lack of competition in that space, you know, you mentioned blue cross blue shield. They have their Doctors that are in in network the lack of competition there to me. All I see is a race to the bottom like that Holds very little accountability for those doctors to truly treat patients the way you are, which is, I I think it's just an entirely different model, um, that we're talking about and, and I'm hopeful.

I do think that there can be a parallel model that is built out over the next several years where. These, the access right now for people to get access to these doctors who are the best in the world. [00:56:00] They have to pay out of pocket for them. It's tough, like, they are more expensive. Yeah. And I think that you're basically banking on the fact that, like, they're going to keep you healthy.

Which, you know, I think that if you're someone, you know, speaking from my own experience, like, when I first quit my job and was just out on my own, I'm like, well, I don't really need health insurance. Yeah. Uh. Other than the fact that if I were to get hit by a bus or something I would need like some accident insurance So I signed up for a crowdfunding Platform called crowd health, which is amazing.

Wow, but for me, it's like outside of that I'm like, I don't really need a primary care Like that I'm going to every single year. I need someone I need Support in ways of like, you know going to the gym having blood panels done doing the basics But outside of that like I don't really need You know primary care So yeah Long winded way of saying, I just, I feel like there's a [00:57:00] system out there that we can build that's, that's just away from these incentives that are keeping people sick.

Yeah. This is also why I'm so excited. Like you said, the, the, the Maha movement, as we call it, right. It's like, it's becoming so many people's awareness and like capitalism is capitalism. Someone's going to see an opportunity and they're going to build this system that you're talking about, which is incredible, you know, and that's the other thing too, is like, I'm not anti doctor.

I have, I have doctors that are some of my closest friends. It's like I was mentored by Dr. Anthony Jay, PhD biochemist, right? Worked at the Mayo Clinic for 20 years. He's a virologist, right? I'm on the phone with him every day during COVID. You tell me what's going on, you know, like unbelievable. Yeah. And I respect these people so much.

And they all know too. It's like, Hey, we know how scientific funding happens for studies and it's super corrupt. And we know that like the medical system is like, you have to do standard of care. If you're an in network, MD, you have to do standard of care, even if you know standard of care is wrong, because if you don't do standard of care, you'll lose your license.

And you're in a system where it's like, you know, I'm not blaming the doctors, I'm blaming the system. So if you have to [00:58:00] see 30 patients a day, and you can see each one for six minutes, and you got to check a box, and then, you know, that's the way that it works, like, that's a super stressful job. It's like crazy, right?

It's not their fault that the thing is broken, you know, but I do think that people will come along. Yeah. And we'll make this thing better. But again, it's kind of like, when we talk about like, we just, I don't know if you went, but we went to the premiere of Fetal Eye, the seed oils movie. Dude, I wasn't able to make it.

I heard it was incredible. It was so good, man. And like, the panel at the end is a doctor who left the system. And is saying like, hey man, I'm not waiting around for a specific, randomized control trial that tracks people somehow over six years to see how, it's never gonna happen. It's never gonna get funded.

It's never gonna happen. So, do I want to sit around and wait and keep eating five tablespoons of seed oils a day until someone tells me that it's not good for me? That's literally like standing in a burning building and like, you're at the front door of a burning building and your back has third degree burns because there's flames crushing you and you're like, I don't think I'm going to step outside until the [00:59:00] fire marshal tells me that it's safe to do so.

That's crazy. You know what I'm saying? So it's like A hundred percent. Yeah, the system is broken and this is where I come back to authority. I am my own authority. I take extreme ownership for my life. It's not RFK's job to get me better insurance. It's not RFK's job to make sure that my doctor is magically in some kind of network that someone has now given me permission to go see that person.

I'm going to take matters into my own hands and I'm going to do this, right? And a lot of times with clients and my group coaching and everything, I tell them exactly what my system looks like. I have catastrophic insurance. If my fiancé or I get hit by a bus, I We're covered. Now our deductible is going to be like five grand, you know, but we're not going to get hit with 800, 000 in medical bills to reset our bones.

You know what I'm saying? It's like, there are ways to do this and protect yourself, for sure. But, yeah. Why wait? Yeah. You know? Yeah. This, it all goes back to something you said earlier in the conversation, which was just the gaslighting that I feel like the medical system with, with the authority that they have, they just have captured, they have the authority, they've [01:00:00] captured people's attention.

The credentials allow them to essentially like keep people in this trance that what I say is the only way. Yeah. Yeah. And. I feel like for the amount of time that that's been happening, we've just seen so many negative health outcomes where there is this revival of. Intuition, being the CEO of your own health, actually experimenting for yourself.

I think there's nothing better than experimenting and figuring out some of these problems for yourself. I know you've benefited from that, but it's like, how do we inspire people to actually be willing to experiment a bit more outside of kind of the standard context of, you know, the go see your doctor and just have them prescribe you something.

Yeah. I, you know, unfortunately when we talk about different frequencies of like being activated in different frequencies. It's like anger is very useful for making change. And this is why, like, I respect what you did so much with your early on Twitter threads and talking about how [01:01:00] seagulls came to be and all this stuff, or like, if you go back to, like, the Flexna report or John D.

Rockefeller. Like, John D. Rockefeller invested a million dollars of his own money, which is the equivalent of, like, 21 million dollars today, to spread propaganda that says anyone doing naturopathy is a quack. Right. You can only do allopathic medicine. This is what the science looks like. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And I always try to give people the example of like, everyone has heard of MLMs and pyramid schemes and we all hate them, right? When, when Susie from the PTA says, do you want to come to my house on Friday night, we're having an Herbalife party. Everyone rolls their eyes, right? And it's like, Herbalife is a for profit company who is funding their own studies on their products to say our products are the best.

And then they're recruiting people. And saying, now hold presentations and tell people how great our products are and sell them to people. This is a marketing funnel. Right? And this is the thing, you and I are both very pro capitalism. But this is what happens in capitalism, right? Is the most successful marketing funnels of all time are pharmaceutical companies.

There's nothing bigger, you know? So when [01:02:00] you have a situation where you have companies that are funding textbooks that train people and then hand them credentials and say, you are now the authority, go out into the world and sell our products. It's brilliant thinking about it through the lens of a marketing funnel.

It's absolutely genius. So in a world where capitalism rules, the superpowers, the greatest superpowers in the world are run on capitalism, right? So when we look at this, I always ask people, and you and I get it because we're entrepreneurs, and we have to learn marketing to some degree, I just look around every day, no matter what I'm doing, I look around and I'm like, Who's funnel am I in?

Who's marketing funnel am I in right now? Somebody's. Somebody wants me to buy this flannel shirt. Somebody wants me to buy these sneakers. Somebody wants me to buy this drink. Constantly. So when you understand this is a for profit machine, and it's so big, they know they're killing people. Mainstream medicine is the third leading cause of death in America.

But it's nearly impossible. And this is the other thing, I don't want too much [01:03:00] government regulation, But like if you, if you pump the brakes on this thing, if mainstream medicine evaporated, the GDP of our nation would suffer so many things. It would completely disrupt all of society because it's like this kind of too big to fail thing.

It's like banks during COVID or whatever. I see these, these businesses that are too big to fail. Yeah. This is a behemoth, man. And you have a place where. It's very difficult for somebody like Anthony J to be like, yeah, I'm a PhD and that whole system I learned from is garbage, you know, and like, dude, I have so much respect for that guy, dude.

He's, he's incredible. He's incredible. I did a virtual podcast with him a while back and we had such a good conversation. He's brilliant. And during COVID too, he was definitely one of the guys who was just like, I'm not just gonna sit here and let this happen. Yeah, I got i'm gonna speak up and I just really appreciated how vocal he was and how bold he was he kind of I think kovat was amazing obviously like There's two sides of just how bad it was and then on the other side of [01:04:00] it We get to see the character of a lot of these men who are now getting put into positions of leadership like They were the people who are now getting put in healthcare position leaderships in our country You Were the people who are getting shut down during COVID because they had contrary opinions.

They were being bold. They were standing up and, you know, saying their opinion. And now, you know, it's just exciting to me to just think, you know, that time period that was so tough for a lot of people, you know, four or five years afterwards, we're going to see potentially some benefits from it. Like people who are willing to, you know, Just continue to be strong make the change.

So yeah, i'm Incredibly encouraged by how bold a lot of these doctors have been like people within the system who are standing up I'm, like let's go like you guys are you guys are heroes because it's pretty easy to throw rocks at the You know from the outside looking in but those guys are are truly taking a ton of risk Yeah, and you think about someone like anthony right and this Like kovat was one of the worst things that ever happened in human history [01:05:00] Right.

And transitional periods are very challenging, right? Like some of the most difficult things I've ever done in my life made me a better version of myself, you know? So it's like, again, the collective consciousness, it's like we are, we get put through stressful time so we can grow and expand. But this is the whole idea of like, trust the science and trust credentials and this, that the other thing we're like, Anthony J comes out and he's like, He's like, Hey, um, I'm a PhD biochemist and I've been at the Mayo Clinic for 20 years as a virologist.

And I'm telling you, this is not the way we should be handling this. This is the, the, the, I know I can't even say the words without getting your podcast banned. But like, we're going to stick something in your arm. Right. And he's just like, this is not the way to do this. Hello. I'm trained in this. I literally am a virologist, you know, and ends up leaving his position.

He's like, I'm not going to be a part of this. Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah. I mean, that's so brave, you know, and the fact that he's just like dismissed it, it shows you. The propaganda machine is not gonna fail. It's too big, you know, and I don't think that what is happening now is, is [01:06:00] could have happened in any way, shape or form without the rise of social media.

I think social media is like incredibly toxic in some ways. I think it's literally warped our brains in terms of like body image. We don't even know what normal human bodies look like anymore, man. It's just like it's been so bad in so many ways for body image and comparison culture. But the rise of podcasts and, you know, these, these conversations that are happening, like the beginning of COVID when I started making content around it.

Was the first time I ever had channel strikes on my YouTube and got videos pulled down and you do this again We're gonna ban your it was crazy, man. I never experienced that before. Hmm, you know So it is it was it was good for showcasing and what I call the illusion of authority Hmm, like it was kind of like the Wizard of Oz like we pulled that back the curtain really This is the chubby little old man back here running this thing and I don't think he knows what he's talking about You know, so it's like is it's useful.

It was useful, but it was very painful for a lot of people, you know Yeah, I feel like I feel like COVID was definitely a period where people either rose or sank, unfortunately. And, uh, I do, I do just, I love the [01:07:00] idea of, I think that leaders were really challenged and we saw that people, people would just got to a point where it was like enough is enough.

Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah, I, I, I'm, it makes me hopeful. Are you hopeful for what's to come? Incredibly hopeful. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's going to come a lot quicker than people realize. Really? Yeah. Yeah. The change that will happen. Yeah. And I think it's because, you know, not to get into politics again, like this, this should be really apolitical, but we, for the first time ever, there is, you know, both politicians and non politicians alike joining forces and like the Elon musks of the world being brought, like entrepreneurs being brought into like administration cabinets and like making changes and like, and you also have somebody who's not worried about reelection.

You know, so it's like, I think they're going to take a Mark Zuckerberg approach and they're going to move fast and break things. I hope. Yeah. But also. I studied a bit of history, not a ton, you know, and like governments are very [01:08:00] powerful things and they don't like to be disrupted. They don't like the status quo to be shook up.

The, the pharmaceutical industry is going to, is going to do whatever they can to not lose profits. The food companies can do whatever they can to not lose profits. Now, hopefully what I'm hoping for is like we saw this during COVID again, right? It's like you can take a manufacturing plant that manufactures just about anything and overnight they're making masks and ventilators, right?

Like that. It's driven by market demand. Right? So if enough people wake up, like right now, I don't think people realize this, but like, Walmart is the biggest carrier of organic produce in the world. Really? Yes. Hmm. So you think of Walmart as cheap or there's junk food there, but no. They're the biggest carrier of organic produce in the world.

Hmm. Right? If you go to H E B right now, you're gonna find grass fed beef. You're gonna find pasteurized eggs. It's gonna be there. You know, it's in Kroger, it's in H E B, it's in Aldi, and then you have, yeah, Erwan, Whole Foods, Treasure, whatever, right? It's all driven by demand. So I don't think that it's some big thing where, like, the big food companies are absolutely evil, and they're trying to kill everybody.

I think they're just trying to maximize profits, which is what a for [01:09:00] profit is. And when you have a fiduciary responsibility, which means you have to make your shareholders more profits quarter after quarter, year after year, this is where you do have situations that seem evil on the face. Like one of the biggest, um, one of the biggest funders.

Of the American Dietetics Association, uh, no, the American Diabetes Association, I'm sorry. One of the biggest funders of the American Diabetes Association is Coca Cola. Conflict of interest? Yes. Good way to make profit? Yes. Right? Or then you have, like, when you get into scientific studies, there's a non profit organization that funds a ton of food studies and nutrition science, and it's called the ILSI, which is the International Life Sciences Institute.

Which sounds warm and fuzzy. And their statement is like, we're a non profit organization. We fund nutrition science for the betterment of humanity. Right? ILSI is owned by nothing but big food companies. Pepsi, Red Bull, Coca Cola, Kellogg's, all these companies. Because they knew, well, if this study says [01:10:00] funded by Red Bull, So now it says funded by the non profit, the International Life Sciences Institute.

We're here to help you. You know, it's nonsense dude. It's absolute nonsense, but it's all driven by profit. I don't think it's a big evil thing where they're just trying to kill everybody. It's just there is a perfect system set up where like, toxic poison food, Disrupts people's metabolism, leads to chronic health conditions, they then go to a doctor who has all these prescription pharmaceuticals and surgeries and all these things that they can do that are just trillions of dollars a year to treat these illnesses that are caused by the foods they're eating.

It seems like a big evil system that's just trying to kill everybody, you know? But it's actually just, I mean, I'm very pro capitalism, but these kinds of things can happen with capitalism because it's a massive way to just drive profits year after year after year after year. Yeah, I think there are a ton of very good and well intentioned people doing bad things Totally in the health system, you know, it's unfortunate.

Yeah, do you [01:11:00] uh, do you have any strong takes on? Just the current state of the health in the u. s Anything that stands out to you or you feel like you want to see change happen the quickest? Yeah, I mean we said this a little bit in the beginning, but I think that health and wellness You A health and wellness journey for an individual is a personal development journey.

It has to be. Right, you can't stop at calories, man. Yeah, you you have to wake up and you have to be able to just again Do critical thinking where you're like, okay Mainstream advice has been calories in calories out eat less move more since the 1950s 90 percent of adults have clinical metabolic dysfunction.

Mm hmm. If you include overweight obese and what's called morbidly obese, right those three categories 75 percent of the population fits into that category 75 percent 45 percent of children When you look around, you can't just think that [01:12:00] humans as a whole are so stupid and so lazy that they are just willingly killing themselves over and over.

No, they are in marketing funnels that are giving them bad information, that are gaslighting them when things go wrong, that are telling them that it's only their fault, nobody else's fault. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, totally. It's a personal development journey. You have to understand. And hey, listen. I have to take extreme ownership.

It's like you said, right? Like I went carnivore for a full year I did when I first learned about the ketogenic diet I stayed in nutritional ketosis by daily blood draw for 12 weeks and did two hours of fasted cardio every day Hmm, you know, it's like I I figure these things out if I'm what works for me I have to figure out what works for me and again this is where we get to the like I like I said, it almost sounds hypocritical because I'm like Well, if you're homeschooling eight kids and you, or you're working 60 hours a week in a job or something like that, like it's going to be hard for you to try to do carnivore, keto, whatever.

Yes, but you do have to get to a place where you're willing to take ownership for your own health and wellness, which [01:13:00] is why in all of my programs, I break it down incredibly simply, right? And for anyone listening right now, again, go to Instagram, DM me, I will send you a food list. This is my food list. It has over 110 foods on it.

And I can break down your health and wellness as simple as if you only eat foods on this list, and do not eat anything that is not on this list. And, now again, this doesn't include macros, how many calories, nothing. This is, this is it. This is the one thing. Only eat these foods. Give it 6 months. Give it 3 months.

Give it 30 days. And see how your life changes. But you have to do it. No one's gonna make the choice for you. Right? It's like you have to make a choice. You have to take ownership. You're the only one who can hold yourself accountable and just see what happens. Yeah. That's it. But it's a personal development journey to get yourself to a place where you can see what happens.

Dude, I love the reframe of just personal development. It actually ties into something that you said that I thought was just a great point about the content that you're starting to produce now. You're like, I [01:14:00] want to turn pro and I feel like at a certain point that ownership level of anything that you're doing, especially your health.

It's like. Just it needs to be it needs to be baked into like your entire demeanor Like this is just a part of who you are and how you're approaching it is, you know You're constantly raising the standard you want to be a pro at being healthy, even though it's kind of a weird way to frame it It's it's the truth.

It's like, you know, what would a healthy person do like get more sleep? Okay get sunlight Okay, not poison yourself with garbage food. It's like That's an incredible starting point. I love the way you frame that. There's a, um, There's actually,

there's an amazing book called Stories from Your Future Self, but there's an exercise that I, that I work through with clients where it's like you're at starting point A, you're at point A right now, and three years from now, envision your healthiest self.

Right. The best version of you. Who do you want to be three years from now? Nobody looks out three years and says, well, I have diabetes. I've gained an extra 100. I'm tired all the time, right? It's like, no, they're gonna say, like, I feel amazing. My type two [01:15:00] diabetes is gone, right? And I've I'm 100 lighter, and I work a job that I love.

And I just that, right? So I have them just kind of really sit in meditation and envision that. And then, every, we're all intelligent enough to do this, man, just reverse engineer. If you're picturing that version of yourself, so let's call that B, we're at point A today, this is point B three years later.

Think about what that version of you does on a daily basis. What does their day look like? What does their food look like? What kind of conversations are they having with, say, their romantic partner over coffee in the morning? Where do they go to work? Where do they live? What do their friendships look like?

Because if right now you have a bunch of asshole friends that talk shit about each other, behind each other's backs. Do you want that three years from now or do you want something different? And use your imagination here, you know, and don't feel bad that three years from now you may have left some toxic people behind, like really envision the best version of yourself and whatever they're doing every day, start it today.

That becomes your daily habits, simple [01:16:00] daily habits and Clovis, I call them daily non negotiables. You're going to tell me what you want. You're going to tell me where you're at and we're going to set daily non negotiables. that are more aligned with what you want. And then, like, like Matthew McConaughey in Interstellar, you bend space and time, and you become that version of yourself.

Yeah. And you're putting it three years out. Watch. If you start to do the daily things that the three year later version of you is doing, you might find that you have that three year life a year from now. Mm. It happens much, much faster than you think, if you can find consistency. Which is why it's a personal development journey because the consistency is the hardest part for people Yeah, where do you think most people slip up in approaching that framework or where have you seen most people slip up?

100 it's a lack of self love and that's It's hard to say because it's the hardest part of the journey and it was the hardest part for me What does that look like lack of self love? Like how does that kind of show up in people's lives? Uh, an example I use is let's say somebody comes to me and they're [01:17:00] drinking, you know, 10 pepsis a day You Right?

And I'm like, okay, you're drinking 10 pepsis a day. We're gonna have to stop that. If you really want to be healthy, we're gonna have to stop that. And the person's like, oh, son of a bitch. Here's another nutritional therapist telling me that I can't have my favorite drink and this, blah, blah, blah. It like feels like this like scarcity, restriction, sacrifice, blah, blah, blah.

If I can help them get to a place where they're reframing it and they say, I love myself so much, I would never knowingly poison. My body, which is where I live, but it took me years to get that. I was drunk six nights a week as a musician. I know what it's like to poison your body. I've been there. This wasn't always easy for me.

I used to eat a ton of bread and pasta and pizza pizzas. Maybe my favorite food of all time. And I used to eat a ton of it. You know, I had to go through this experience myself as well. So if I'm at, you know, a Thanksgiving table, With a bunch of family and everybody's eating a bunch of stuff that I'm not eating.

I'm not looking around like, Oh man, I wish I could eat the pie. You know what I mean? It's like, no, I'm making a choice. Either I made a pie for myself that has ingredients that [01:18:00] I'm willing to eat. It has to be a self love practice. So people get confused when they first come to me and my programs. The first thing I have them do is stand in a mirror and say, I love you, to yourself, ten times.

Like, what? I thought I was here to lose weight. You are. Trust me. Trust me. But you have to love yourself enough to think that you deserve the best man to think that you deserve the best The quality of life that I want does not include a 99 cent bag of Doritos. I'm not doing it I'm not putting that in my system.

I am a luxury vehicle that runs on the highest octane fuel available You know, and I want that for myself. I want to feel amazing every day It's a journey of self love. That's it. Dude. That is so good. That is such a mic drop Um, unfortunately, I think we've run out of time, but I I seriously think I could talk to you all day and we're gonna have to do a part two because I would love to there's so much gold here and I just love your framework around health and wellness.

I think it's That's [01:19:00] absolutely the direction that, um, the world needs to move into, like our world needs to move into. Um, I love the humility that you bring to the space, so just appreciative of, of what you're doing. And, uh, I'm really excited to, to be here and watch what happens the next year, two years, three years of you putting in the work.

Yeah. Right back at you, man. This has been amazing. Absolute pleasure. Thank you, dude. Thank you