#394 Cru Mahoney: Lessons Learned from 6.5 Years of Running Every Day

Edited pod
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[00:00:00] Crew. You stud. Let's go. I'm not used to seeing you without your shirt on. How's it going, brother? Welcome to the ME Mafia podcast. Thanks, man. I appreciate it's, see, uh, it's a pleasure to be here. Did you guys, so you guys connected before or after he decided to come on the show? No, after, so Chad, Chad reached out and we were, uh, I didn't realize we lived as close as we did.

We were both out for a shirtless little stroll at noon. Yeah. Walking down Tillery Street here on East Dawson. We both look up, I'm like, that's crew. We're, we're recording with him next week. Let's go. So yeah, that's, we bumped into each other. He was on the phone. But yeah, we had a good little talk, man. I, I, I think I was on the phone with my friend talking about the funniest thing ever.

We're talking about, uh, gen Z, humor and lingo and I, I made a video about it. I said it is the most encrypted and intellectual language in the entire world right now because it's. Incredibly hard to break into. I go on this whole rant about it, but we were, I was, I think I was just crying, laughing, and then ran into you, so it was hilarious.

That's unreal. Well, we're kind of out [00:01:00] on that lingo a little bit. Dude, that would be right over my head because I'm 30. Harry's 31. So, man, we just missed the cusp, bro. You gotta, you gotta grab onto it, man. It's a tough one. Can you translate for us, like, what do we need to know? So, my favorite one right now, uh, well, I talk about it in this video.

I, I actually don't know if I posted it. I just filmed stuff and then it pops up in the drafts. But, uh, there's hus, which is just girls. I've never heard that before. And then these are, these are just super shirts over there, like, yep. Yeah, these are just brain rot, horrible terms. And then chz, this is classic.

So chopped means you're ugly. So chz would mean ugly girls. Wow. Yeah. It's deep. That's, it's uncrackable. Wow. That's literally the first time I've ever heard either of those words before. We gotta get, we gotta get more done. You start throwing and if we're record the podcast and don't tell us what it means.

Yeah, yeah. This guy was totally chopped, you know? Yeah. But so you're, you're 24, right? Yeah. But I feel like people probably assume that you're a little bit [00:02:00] older. You seem more mature than that people. Yeah. People think I am well, 'cause I'll mention that I'm 24 here and there and they'll say, I thought you were 35 or something.

I got mean. Shoot. All right. So I think it's a compliment. Yeah. Yeah. I'll take it. I think, I mean, I'm always just talking about serious kind of stuff. Yeah. So that's just the, the vibe of the content, which, I mean, I was telling him I, I am that way, but I'm that way when I'm by myself. Yeah. When I wake up and it's five in the morning and I'm about to ice bath and go run and open up that freaking door again, that's when I'm kind of in that mood, which it's fitting because I'm doing those things while I'm talking about them.

But I mean, with my friends and when I'm just hanging out or when I meet somebody, it's a little bit different than people expect. So I'm actually trying to work on that very diligently. Mm. So you saying, because I don't want that contrast, you're saying you're more or less, or you are less serious in person on a day-to-day basis, but in that morning mode, you're, you're strictly business.

Yeah. Which, which is a [00:03:00] big, it's a big thing to me because I hate when somebody is ultra serious about their thing. Yeah. Just the way they live, the way they take care of themselves, whatever, and then they can't break out of that when it comes to their personality. Hmm. Whatsoever. Because if you want to talk about making an impact, for example, if I'm just going to be ultra serious and head down all the time, and I don't joke and I'm not sarcastic, I don't have fun.

Well, the people that. Are that way already know what I'm talking about. Mm-hmm. You know, if, if you want to actually connect with more people, make a larger impact there, there's kind of a responsibility to be able to reach different personalities and different minds, but at the same time, there's a responsibility to yourself, to be honest.

So I'm huge on honesty because I mean, otherwise you're just lying to yourself. You know, if I am. Really serious about what I do, but I think something is hilarious. [00:04:00] I'm not gonna go, oh God, I can't find that funny. Yes. I, I hate when people put on that filter. It's ridiculous. Yeah. And I would imagine too, like when I see the videos of you running in the morning, it seems like in a lot of ways that's also like the most natural version of yourself, or when you speak into the camera, my sense is that you genuinely are just kinda like shooting from the heart and soul and just sharing what's on your mind when you're in that moment, which is great.

And there's hundreds of thousands of people that are gonna take motivation and inspiration from that. Yeah. But that's actually a really good point where there's probably people that aren't, and then if you meet them in person and you're kind of like affable and don't take yourself too seriously. Yeah.

And then they get in a little bit more into what you're doing. They're like, oh shoot, maybe I should actually start running or ice bath or whatever. Yeah. So it's a really good point where like, your end goal is how do I impact as many people as possible? Yeah. So I actually have to have both sides of the coin from a personality standpoint.

Yeah. And, and again, that's, that's the only version that's true to me because I've always been that way. Know what I mean? Even when you have horrible times and you're upset about stuff and you're going through difficulty, I mean, [00:05:00] man, if, if you asked any of my roommates and, and people that I've lived with, I'll just be in the other room and I'll just laugh my ass off just from thinking of something.

You know what I mean? I'm always that kind of way. But when I sit down, so I mean, I do a lot of writing. So after I run every day, that's kind of when I sit down and write. Um, and those are typically the messages that I speak in the running videos. And so those are just how can I take this big picture of what I'm thinking about and squeeze it into a really tight message, which is awesome.

But then I run into, okay, how can I relate to more people? Because some people would look at that and say, oh, this guy speaks really well. This guy's confident, this guy's doing the thing every single time. It just creates this gap in a lot of people's minds. So I'm trying to bridge that gap by bringing more of that personality.

Again, I'm, I'm genuinely working on that, pretty diligently. Uh, but at the same time, I've always [00:06:00] found, uh, some pride in the fact that I am not actually that relatable in a lot of ways. Um, because when I look at the general population, the general way to live, it's always been something that I did not like.

And so that was kinda where I go, well, I wanna be like nobody else. And then being like nobody else actually presents a unique problem in that. Oh, I'm, I'm kind of like nobody else. Mm-hmm. Or at least you think so for a while until you start meeting people. And that obviously comes from being confident in your own version of it, but Yeah, totally.

So just to fill our audience in a little bit too. Yeah. 'cause I feel like it's important context. You are on this like legend, almost like legendary pursuit it seems like, but just ruthlessly consistent with your morning routine. Yeah. You hit the ice bath, you do a mile run every single morning. Yeah.

You're up to over 2000 days. Yeah. So today was, uh, 2,478. So a few days I was talking to Brett in the car on the way over and I was like, [00:07:00] I genuinely believe you might be the only person who's run a mile for 2,400 days. Man. During that period. You'd think so. Uh, I know of people who are 20,000 and they're probably off Instagram too, right?

It's like some old guy that's like 65 that's just Yes. Dialed a hundred percent. And. I mean, you know, I, I, I can't hit that quite yet because time has not, uh, passed that long in my life. But the, the reason, the reason the running is kind of the foundation of it is because I, I genuinely don't consider myself a runner by sport.

So, I mean, there's, there's plenty of people who run all the time. Mm-hmm. And people say, oh, it's just a mile. I'm going, listen, it, it's, it's a very poor training plan for running a marathon, but it's the best training plan for building self-respect, knowing myself, keeping a promise, and, and that's, that's the whole foundation of it.

That that's the principle. [00:08:00] Mm-hmm. Does it have to be in the morning too? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. It's, it's just, it's just the entry into the day, man. There's, it's a different world. You know, I, I look at this morning and I go, that's just, I. It's not even today, you know, it's its own little pocket of existence because it's quiet, it's very solemn.

I mean, you, you wake up and just walk to go sit in ice water. It just sucks, man. And, and I mean, we're in Austin, Texas. Everybody does the ice bath. Every, everyone does all of the things. But that's fine. It's, it's my experience with it that I find so difficult. Mm-hmm. You wake up, your body temperature's mad low, last thing you wanna do is even stand up outta your bed, and then you just have to break the barrier in your mind.

There's never a point where you walk up to the edge of the ice bath and you go, okay, you, you never feel like you can fully accept it and [00:09:00] accepting it. That's the skill of the whole thing. Mm-hmm. So you're constantly overriding. 'cause in my mind with the ice bath example, it's, it's metaphorical in a lot of different ways, but.

There's a huge difference between somebody who gets in and just jumps right out immediately and says, no never. And the person that sits in that damn ice water and goes, oh shit. And, and you stay. Yeah. You know what I mean? And that's what it's like to be a freaking person. Hmm. You know what I mean? You, you don't get away from difficult times.

People try, you know, they, they run away. They distract themselves. But the true human sits there and goes, damn. And some people have a, a pretty tough pill to swallow, you know? And, and some people have a harder life. Couldn't tell you why some people have it. Uh, what you would think to be easy. But everyone has something to sit there and go, damn.

And not enough people exist in that moment for long enough. I really like what you said about just your approach to this whole, it, it, it doesn't even seem like [00:10:00] it's necessarily a challenge for you. It's just part of, it's like breathing at this point. Yeah. And, um, I think that. If you look at social media and just how people approach it, you know, there's all these like different challenges, you know, day 400, whatever, of doing this or you know, a hundred of doing, uh, that 75 hard, like all these little challenges that are cyclical.

But I, I love the fact that this is just baked into how you are and I'd be curious to, to know like, what was that turning point for you where it just became, Hey, this is just what I'm gonna do for, for now until forever. Yeah. Yeah. And that, that's a hard one for people to grasp is the forever kind of thing.

And I think, I think practically it's really helpful to kind of zoom in because I literally just have to run today. That's it. And that's the case every time. So people try and comprehend forever. You mean I have to do this for the rest of my life? We, you can only handle today. Today tomorrow's version of you is gonna be there to deal with tomorrow's responsibility.

The turning point, so [00:11:00] I, I guess, what is it, six and a half-ish years ago is when I started. I, I, with a, with a friend of mine, we were just gonna run every day for 30 days. And it was because I didn't like to run. It was just the cliche, oh, doing things you don't wanna do, you do the hard things, whatever. Uh, so I did the 30 days, and then you get to day 31 and you go, well, what the hell am I gonna not do it?

That's ridiculous. You know, I've, I've seen 30 days of myself becoming a better person. Am I gonna step back on that? I've never been able to do that. I, when I grew up, I did a lot of, uh, gymnastics and flips and all that crazy stuff, uh, still do sometimes, but I would land this horribly scary trick, for example.

And then the next day I would go, oh, Dale, I have to do it again. Mm-hmm. And I always had to make sure, make sure that my past self was not better than the current self, you know? And so I had this little predicament, oh, well now I can't stop. You know, I'm, I'm not going to walk back on this, so let me [00:12:00] just keep doing this.

Freaking forever, you know? And, uh, it just, it just becomes interesting because a promise to me that's a, that's a solid statement. You know, I'm, I'm going to do this thing every single day no matter what. If you're genuine in that statement, you get really creative when things get difficult, you know, I mean, it, it's, it's a mile big deal, right?

But you wake up, it's pouring rain, you look out the window, damn, that mile is a little bit less fun. You know, you're throwing up on the side as you're running that mile. It's less fun. Injury is much less fun, you know? And it is a core to say, here's a promise. I've watched myself keep that promise over and over again.

If I had to bet on anybody to continue keeping a promise to show up. When it's difficult to do the hard thing to overcome kind of the mental obstacle, I'd have to bet on me. 'cause I've watched it happen every single time and. People do a ultra [00:13:00] marathon a day for 180 days in a row and all this crazy stuff, man, that I have not done anywhere near that.

You know what I mean? I'm not claiming to be a fricking David Goggins, insane runner, wild athlete, anything like that. I've just built my lifestyle around the principle of what it means to do something that consistently. Yeah, I think the concept of keeping or breaking promises to yourself is powerful for a lot of people because I think I.

A lot of people understand the feeling of pride when there is a period in your life where you're consistently keeping those promises and yeah, kind of that like quiet, dark shame that comes from you not keeping those promises too. And that's really where everything flows from, right? It's like if you're a person that can't keep your word or lets other people down, well it's probably starting from you not keeping those promises to yourself.

So I'm sure like where you were when you were 17 versus to where you are now at 24, 2400 plus days later is probably completely different. 'cause all you've been doing is just [00:14:00] showing up every day and keeping those promises to yourself. Yeah, man. I mean, I remember at that point, I mean, growing up, so school was my, my fear, you know what I mean?

Because it was this environment that you, you can't not be in. You know what I mean? It was fully out of my control and, and what it kind of ingrained into my mind is that, oh man, my life is up to circumstance. I. You know, the way that I feel when I'm driving up to school every day about to cry, and you, you feel that, that feeling in your stomach.

And man, I was the, I was the anxious panic. Get me outta here, flight over, fight any day kind of guy. You know what I mean? And, and that was the whole experience. And so I felt like I am controlled by everything else. Know what I mean? I have to go to school and I hate it. Someone saved me. Mm. You know what I mean?

That, that's genuinely the feeling. And when you go from that to, to kinda where I am now, where, okay, the, the [00:15:00] gap has closed. You know, the, the gap of this control or the gap of who I want to be, who I am, or at least who I'm working towards, it closes. The more that you realize you have the control people, people's problems are existential in a lot of cases.

You know what I mean? If you lose your job, that's a big freaking deal. If you're in a long-term relationship and things fall apart, that's a big freaking deal, and people would imagine that, okay, one little practice of doing something for myself every day, what the hell is that gonna do? Nothing. Running every single day is not going to mend my relationship.

I'm not running every day. But people miss the fact that, okay, well, running every day separate the existential problem, running every day, proves to you that no matter what happens, I, I mean, life outside of the individual is more volatile than anything. No matter how [00:16:00] volatile, I have a flat line of consistency in this one thing, I become more and more proud of myself.

I recognize that when times get hard, well, maybe it's a new version of a difficult time, but I've built the tools to be able to overcome this. Mm-hmm. It, when life gets better for the individual, life gets better outside the, the things that pertain to them. Become better as well. And so everything is indirect in how, uh, you know, solutions actually work.

So again, the the relationship example, the running doesn't fix it. The running makes you a better person. Mm-hmm. Being a better person, being healthier makes life better, life being better helps the external problem. Mm-hmm. Do you have like tangible things that changed on the outside, whether it's like relationships or just kind of how you view yourself that you started to see and like at what point did you start to see those through that commitment?

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, gosh, it's, it's so hard because everything, everything is a blur and you remember every single moment. Yes. All [00:17:00] at the same time. Um, confidence that is just absolutely everything. Because when you, when you're born, your parents are, you know, superheroes, your teachers know everything. Uh, the, the owner of a company.

Is, is God almost, you know what I mean? We, we just have this authority built into our minds. The longer you spend overcoming things, overcoming yourself, overcoming the difficult moments, and you're there every single moment, and you recognize that in any of these people, the teacher, the parents, the, the people that give kind of this harsh presence and make you feel like you're not enough, when you recognize that you've done that for yourself and you know, they haven't done that themselves.

I don't care how much money somebody makes, I, I don't care what position and what company they've got. I don't care what car you drive. I don't care what house you have. I know what I've done. And if I don't see that there's something similar [00:18:00] on the other side, well there goes the, uh, the status, you know, in, in my experience.

And so it levels the playing field because everybody within reason, obviously everybody can do something. Every day. That's difficult. Everybody can keep the promises. I love the running thing because again, in reasonable nature, most people could run every single day. It's a matter of who the heck chooses to do it.

So the confidence, I think, is the foundation of every single thing that you could possibly want to achieve. Uh, any connection you want to build, any impact that you want to have. The only thing that allows me to sit here and just chat about what I think is the fact that I'm confident I could say, okay, I know myself.

I can, I can answer the question because I've spent so much time in this, you know, a, a scientist that works on fricking, I don't know, putting, putting food under the microscope and looking at the [00:19:00] molecular level of all this stuff and just chemistry and blah, blah. You ask them about that. I'm sure they would be absolutely glad to answer the questions because they know, you know, most people hate the question why it feels like an attack.

When somebody asks me why I go, well shoot, how much time you got? I've been studying this forever. You know, and that's, that's kind of the, that's the fruit of the labor when you're working to be a confident person. And confidence is hard because most people think, oh, you're confident I'm not. That must have, that's a you thing.

Not being confident is a me thing, and it's a skill, you know what I mean? Well, you, you keep a promise for a thousand days in a row, you probably go, all right. Yeah, I'm in there. So you were saying a little bit earlier that there was, would you say, was it a fear of school or you just didn't like school? Oh man, it, it was, that was the biggest, um, that was the biggest version of a societal contrast, if that makes sense.

So I recognized how [00:20:00] I. Was thinking and reflected and would observe and, and I couldn't see that in other people. You know, I, I felt wildly misunderstood, just, just from a young age. I think observation was my biggest obsession. Just thinking about how, I think questioning it, constantly looking around saying, are people talking to themselves right now or are they just talking to other people?

Mm-hmm. You know, because I would talk to somebody and then I would be simultaneously thinking to myself, I'm going, what, what's going on here? And so that, that created just this, this gap. You know? Nobody gets it, none. The teachers understand. I'm alone. There's 2000 people in this place and I'm by myself.

Um, and there's nothing I can do about it. I, I would often, yeah. I don't wanna, I don't wanna compare school to jail, but that's how you, I mean, that's literally how I felt, you know? Um, again, don't wanna, don't wanna sound too, too soft [00:21:00] here, but yeah. Eight hours a day, nothing I can do about it. And I'm stuck in this place of people that simply don't understand.

I know the, all the little tasks and stuff we're doing were bullshit. You know what I mean? I knew everything was metaphorical. Oh, it's just to learn time management and all these little skills of how to eventually have a job one day. Okay. You know what I mean? And so being, it was just, it just felt like I was trapped.

Hmm. You know? And it was that mixed with just my anxious nature. I mean, dude, it used to be the episodes, man, my mom's driving me in the carpool lane, and we get in the car in the morning and I'm, I'm okay. And we get there pulling up to the door and it's just boom, boom, boom, boom. I'm going, no, no, no. I can't.

I can't. And just, dude, every day used to just be this. Loss of control completely. Hmm. And that, man, that's a, that's a scary thing to experience over and over again. You know? And the proof, uh, that, that represents is, man, I don't have the control. [00:22:00] You know, and, and that's where it's just the evidence over and over again.

So to kind of dig out of that hole, you have to create evidence somehow. Yeah. You know, and that's, that's kind of the running the ice baths, the doing the things you don't want to do, that's kind of where it came from. Yeah. It's like you were saying, there's so many, um, existential things that you don't have control over, but the one thing we do have control over is our internal perception where it's like, yes, these things might be getting, like rained down upon you, but if you actually know how to deal with that and you have the right mental thought process around why those things are occurring and things that you can do to get yourself outta that situation, that's where so much of the gold is.

And, and part of why I was asking that question is, so you started when you were 17 with the running, did you end up going to college and get to take this mindset into college? Or did you just decide, hey, yeah, not for me. No, man, I, I did not go to college. I mean. You know, I, I did the, the straight A's and all that stuff in, in high school.

Just 'cause if I'm gonna do something, I'll, I'll try and be decent, but I just got to the point where, uh, I mean, I, I always just hated school so much. Um, [00:23:00] again, not because, not because the learning was a huge problem. I mean, I could sit there and take in information, do well on stuff if I really, really put forth the effort, but I just, I knew the environment that college would be, man, that, that was just so far from what would've been good for me because it, it would've been an even larger version of kind of that, that contrast that I explained.

Um, and, and so I decided not to go. I mean, senior year of high school I had a, a nutrition bar company. So we produced locally and sold in a bunch of little stores and stuff and design packaging and built the website and did all that. I mean, it's not what I do it, it didn't quote unquote succeed, but just learning through that business, um.

I mean, we got the USDA organic certification and the gluten-free certification. I mean, these are not meant for little mom and pop size businesses. It was my friend and I we're 18. You know, we're getting all this stuff. I'm learning to talk to people [00:24:00] and communicate well and present something that I care about.

And all these little skills like Photoshop, illustrator, video editing, the list goes on. Yeah. I, you know, I didn't have a bunch of freaking other 20 year olds around me, uh, in crazy numbers and have that whole experience, but I learned some pretty sweet stuff from that. Mm-hmm. You know, and, uh, I don't think, I don't think college is a.

The perfect thing for some, I don't think it's a, a problem for other people. I mean, if, if you're gonna be a doctor or something, I'd prefer you do some sort of, uh, some sort of degree, you know? Yeah. Um, but yeah, man, for me it was just, uh, you knew. Yeah. I knew it wasn't the wasn't the way, was there a moment in time, you know, after having skipped college and just kind of gone for it, where you realize like, okay, the real world is more, the environment for me has, you know, it's not just like this prison environment, sit down, go to school, be inside all day, sit in a chair.

Yeah. Um, like you actually are able to take [00:25:00] bake hacks and, and go after things in a, a bold way. Yeah, man, I mean, it's, it's funny how, uh, how freeing it was. And it becomes really, I won't say scary, but it's, it's just overwhelming because when you are in charge of your own to-do list, it's a really big responsibility.

So people are in college, they think they're just. Busy as can be. And I'll, I'll ask people in college sometimes I'll say, if you had every single to-do list item taken off, that that pertained to a teacher, a parent, a boss, anyone else? What is, what is the you to-do list? I'll say, uh, I mean, TikTok scrolling on Instagram, I gotta see that's a problem.

That, that is the hardest responsibility. I was 18, I had nothing to do. So you're saying there was like nothing self derived to like [00:26:00] drive into and build on top of it's, everything's just being kind of handed to you as a task to do, Hey, here's your homework, do this, you know, gotta clean your room, do that.

Yeah. And, and I won't, I won't go as far to say it's, uh, false productivity, but it's somewhere near that. You know what I mean? Because, well, what if, what if none of that existed? And, and that was kind of my predicament. Wanting to just do my own thing. I'm thinking, man, I, I think in interesting ways, you know, I feel like I have value to offer.

I wanna be successful. I wanna do my own thing. I, I don't want to be working for someone else. What do I do? No, I mean, no one gives you the to-do list. No. You know, I mean, should I just send emails and stuff, or do I go into stores and hand out products? What, what the heck am I supposed to do? And, and that's a, that's a big responsibility.

But, uh, you know, I, I think when someone says they're bored, that's a wild one. Because I go, man, there's [00:27:00] so many little things that you could do that is not money or business directed, by the way. That's a huge emphasis of mine. But it, it, it's purpose driven, it, it's self-improvement driven, you know, and, uh, I mean, it, it's, I I'm just wildly grateful that what I do now is kind of just, I.

Chatting. Yes. You know, it is just talking about what the heck I care about. Um, and if you asked me maybe five years ago, what would you want to do? I'd say, well, I just want to, I just want to think the way that I do and, and kind of live, I don't know, just work out, right? Yeah. Uh, and, and help people mainly through doing those things.

And back then I would've been afraid to say that. 'cause it's entitled, you know what I mean? What you just want to be yourself. Oh, it doesn't, everybody. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? But that's where people get, people get stuck because you say, what's your purpose? And they go, okay, what's something that I like that could make me money?

And I go, no, stop. What do you like? What do you [00:28:00] care about? What do you want to do? What kind of impact do you want to have? The money thing can definitely figure itself out later, but you know, I didn't start running every day. I go, okay, how can I monetize running every day? Mm-hmm. Nah, it's just, man, I have, I have ideas that I want to share and.

I don't hear a lot of people talking about the stuff that I care about in the way that I think about it to myself. Um, and so yeah, I, I think purpose gets confused with what do you wanna do for a job? And that's what I find college doing as well. You gonna college, oh, you're supposed to find yourself, right?

And you leave with a ticket to get a job, and they go, wait, is the job me? And then it's this conflict. Wait, I, I thought there was more to this. Now I just work, you know? And so I, I'm always emphasizing that purpose needs to be. Internal, it needs to be something outside of money and work. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's so well said.

And I think the three of us, like Harry and I almost contrast you [00:29:00] really well where we are that crop where we're a little bit older, so we were really pushed to go into the, in the corporate direction. Yep. And, um, like even in college, you know, playing baseball, a lot of that to, to-do list that you're, like you were talking about that was pushed on us by school and you know, sports and all that stuff.

And then we were into, you know, Tim Ferriss and making that time to be creative a little bit. But when I look back at my own time in college, I don't think I unplugged enough and just thought about where I wanted my life to go. I was just always so tapped in that, you know, Harry and I end up. Deciding when we're like 27, 28, Hey, let's start this podcast, let's blogging, start blogging about nutrition That led to Noble.

Everything is great, but really like the skillset was always there in our early twenties. Yeah. That's why I think you're a great example of like making that space to understand who you are, how do you think, what do you want to do? And then everything can flow from there because now we see a lot of guys that we graduated with or maybe are a little bit older, where they're making incredible money, they're getting promoted, and it's just harder and harder to get outta that [00:30:00] rabbit hole when you want to do something.

Yeah. So like the sooner we, you can teach a young man to detach the way that you were able to and get on the path's, like you're saving decades of time, man. And the the loneliness aspect I think is, is kind of glossed over. Yes. In a lot of cases. But yeah, I mean, literally up until seven months ago, I, I, that's when I moved here.

Um, where were you before? Uh, North Carolina. Okay. Yeah. I'm from Raleigh and I mean, Raleigh's beautiful. It's just. There's just not much going on. It's very much university town. Um, people just go out and, and drink or whatever. That's kind of the young person thing to do. It also pretty heavily skips over the, uh, 23, 24 age range.

It goes high schoolers. People in college, when college is in session, and then 40 year olds. Yes. It just, it just skips the middle. So you feel kind of isolated, but man, I mean, every single day was [00:31:00] just wake up work, go to the gym, come back home just by myself so much, you know, and that, that's a lot of my childhood as well, which was just, you know, the, the time to really think about these things and, uh, well, if I'm gonna be by myself, I better feel some company with myself.

Yes. You know? Yes. Um, but that, that is a, that is a huge defining factor of probably the last five years up until. This new era of you just meet people here every day mm-hmm. That are kind of into similar things. Um, I mean, God, I, there was a point, uh, semi recently before even moving here where, you know, I had 300,000 followers on Instagram and would hang out with one person, just go to the gym together and then go home.

You know what I mean? It's, it's crazy. It's unbeliev. Yeah. You know, and so that, that's something that honestly I, I'm just excited about. [00:32:00] Mm-hmm. You know, is meeting more people, just having more conversations like this actually existing with, with similar minded people. It's freaking awesome. Yeah. The cool thing about social media and, and just what you've built specifically, is that there's a ton of people out there who resonate with what you have to say around like, you're just, your personal philosophy is essentially like the conventional path.

If you live it long enough, you can conform to it to the point where you lose yourself and who you actually are at your core. Yep. And like I think we started to go down that path. Mm. So it's interesting for us who have pulled ourselves away from it. Like, I cannot imagine where I would be if I stayed on that path.

Can't imagine. Yeah. Full stop. Yeah. And, uh, a hundred percent it was, it's a di it is a literally a different person with a whole different set of values. Yep. Who's living a smaller life than I'm living right now. Um, and I actually, I I just truly respect your pursuit at an early age of being like, I just, I know where this all goes and I do not want to end up there.

Yeah. So I'm just gonna pull myself out of [00:33:00] it. And I think that you have a large following because there's so many people who are living, their internal dialogue is, I don't think I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. I don't think I'm doing, I don't think I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. Yeah.

Every single day. Yep. Yep. It's, it's crazy. And I, and I think that you give them an outlet to like live that. Kind of through what you're doing, but then also like draw inspiration to act on it, which I think is great. Yeah. I mean, that, that's a, that's a big one. You know, I, I often sit down and say, what would, what would make someone actually consider doing something about it?

You know? And I mean, everyone says that starting is the hardest part and that kind of thing. But again, I, I think often people will hear, oh, I run every day. And they go, okay, I'm gonna run every day and I want it to solve this. Mm-hmm. It's, it's getting out of the solution mindset. You know what I mean? It can't, it can't be outcome driven, every single thing that you do.

And man, we, we deal with other people's opinions so often that if I'm going to seem [00:34:00] successful, I better have some numbers behind it. Man, you can't, you can't weigh, uh, more purpose. You can't weigh self-respect. You, you can't log into your confidence account and see that the number went up and show people the chart.

That's why people don't go for these things, you know what I mean? It's just. How much money do you make? What car do you drive? I see a nice car driving by. I go, who is that? You know, actually, what kind of person is that? What allowed them to get to the point where they can afford that? You know, did they build something meaningful?

Did they just luck of the draw? I mean, who is this individual? Because, you know, all the boring stuff, character and uh, and how they treat people and, and kind of where their mind is at. It's boring until you realize that's the most important stuff ever. Yeah. Um, and that's what makes up a person. Hmm. Yeah.

It's a great point of these things that are so important, yet they're intangible, so it's very easy to just push that off when it's like, [00:35:00] I would argue, I think all three of us would argue that the ability to just sit by yourself and love yourself and actually be happy and not have fear for this thing or that thing, or so many people that have money, that feel those things.

Like what actually is more important to you. Yeah. Yeah. I mean it's, it's interesting as well, because. Even that people think, okay, if I spend enough time by myself, I like who I am, problem ought to be solved. Hmm. Right. We all have kind of a, I don't know, there's just a life angst. Mm-hmm. You know, there's always something Next.

I wanna figure it out. I think that the self-respect, loving yourself, knowing how to spend time with yourself, uh, all of these great things, I think that that's the, the start line. You know? And, and I think people see that as the, this is it. Mm-hmm. You know, this, that's where I want to be. I don't need anybody else.

I don't need anything. Everything is internal. I'm happy with me. I love myself. That would be the start. Then life is [00:36:00] about knowing people, building community, uh, relying on people, even having other people rely on you. It, it's not about being hardened and closed off, and that's the route that most people take because Okay.

Building, building a good relationship with myself, it seems really scary. But I'll get to the point where I'll figure it out, and I don't need anybody else wrong. It's just that's not how it works. We will always be vulnerable whether we present it externally or not to life, you know? And that's, that's another hard pill to swallow.

You know, you talk about, uh, relationships. If you go into a relationship, you give everything that you can, which, what the heck else are you gonna do? Just be guarded and hardened. Well, a lot of people take that route, but if you want to build the best relationship, you're going to be putting, you're gonna be putting your cards on the table every single time, you're gonna have the highest chance of getting hurt in that relationship, more [00:37:00] so than anybody else.

How do you get the best relationship possible? You do that. You know what I mean? And it's just, man, the, the more value you want, the more responsibility you hold. Plain and simple. Mm-hmm. Is there any part of you? I, I think I saw, um, someone, someone brought up faith in your, in your comments once and I, and I was laughing at, at just like kind of the interaction, but I, I'm curious 'cause it's, it seems like you, your pursuit of character is driven by something that is like, you know, out outside of yourself.

Like you want to have this high quality character. Mm. I'm just curious, like, do you think about, you know, religion or like some set of values as something that you're measuring yourself against? Like what is, what is kind of like, how, like how do you kind of think about that? Yeah, that's, that is my, my favorite, favorite topic of conversation.

Just because, I mean, there's so much that goes into it and I think a lot of people get tied into [00:38:00] something. Maybe they, they don't really have a, a super strong confidence in it, but then they, they place their identity, they place their purpose and haven't really built. Kind of what we're talking about in terms of the, the awareness of it.

Mm. Um, I, I, I'm not religious in, in any specific kind of way. I would say that my relationship with myself, my consciousness, whatever the heck else is out there, does it, it does feel kind of like a, a spiritual kind of thing. Mm. Right? Because when you're talking to yourself, you're almost talking to the, the world, you know?

And, and I don't wanna say this in any disrespectful kind of way, but talking to yourself is kind of like talking to God as well in a religious context, you know? And so what's interesting to me, whether it's God or whether it's yourself, most people do not obey their authority. And that's a problem, man. I.[00:39:00]

If I knew that God was, was telling me to do X, Y, and Z, gimme a break. Yeah. We're doing it there. There's no, there's no problem there. You know, and I think that's, that's what people run into building the obedience again, whether it's to God, yourself, whatever the heck you believe in. I mean, it's, it's a tangible thing that you can do.

You know, you can take action on that thing. It's just, it's a hard road, you know? And so I think, I think what's attractive to people, uh, in Christianity, for example, is that I don't have to be perfect. I just have to have good intent. Who's being honest about how good their intent really is. If you're kind of going, uh, I'm not gonna do it today, you know, I'm gonna do the right thing, but, oh, I can't be perfect all the time.

Well, you could've, you could've chose the right thing right there. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? And so the, I don't know, the forgiveness is almost something I don't love for myself, because the safety net allows for. [00:40:00] Excuses. Mm-hmm. When there's no safety net, you know what I mean? If, if you're hanging off the edge of a ledge and there's nothing that's gonna save you, you're gonna see how many freaking pull ups you can do.

Mm-hmm. You know, you're gonna see how, how long you can pull your dang self up. And again, it, it's, it's a harsh responsibility where if I mess up, that's me. Here I am, you know, and, uh, I, I'm just, I'm, I'm more and more attracted to that kind of responsibility. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I love, um, I feel like the, what you're talking about in the spiritual sense is really interesting.

'cause a lot of people will just kind of use that grace that's given through Christianity as a way to obfuscate responsibility. Yeah. Whereas like, you know, I, I would identify myself as a follower of Jesus, but I think once you kind of like see. His sacrifice for what it, like, if that's how you like, choose to believe.

Yeah. The world was made and created and he came here and he died for our sins. [00:41:00] If you weigh the weight of that and then go on to like, just kind of be disobedient. Yeah. Whew. It's crazy. That's, that's, that's a tough one to sleep on. Like, it is, you know? It is. I mean, it, and you know, it's interesting because, I mean, it just lifestyle wise, kind of my, my morals and values, I mean, it's pretty dang close to, to kind of the, the Christian, uh, moral compass there.

But it, it's more of a belief thing for me. Um, but again, it's, it's that, that authority concept is so, it's so striking to me. Yeah. Um, and I think it's, I think it's really telling in a lot of interesting ways. But yeah, I mean, man, if I, if I went to, if I went to church, I mean, I could tell people that I was Christian.

Probably a lot more people would like me and wanna hang out just because there is that community aspect, which is freaking awesome. You know what I mean? Wouldn't I, wouldn't, I love to go to a thing every weekend [00:42:00] and it's just a bunch of people that are like-minded and great and have good intent and all that kind of stuff.

Absolutely. But it wouldn't be fair to myself or anybody else that does actually practice a given faith to pretend to be that way. Yeah. It just wouldn't be fair, you know? So faith has to be genuine. Um, and yeah, I mean, I'm, I freaking love looking into it. I, I love hearing what people think and just, I, I watch debates on that stuff all day long.

Somebody wants to watch God, it's so good. It's so good. Yeah. So for you it's the authenticity is the biggest piece. Yeah. Yeah, a hundred percent. There's some good churches in town too. I'd be curious. Um, 'cause we, I was raised Catholic, Harry was raised Episcopalian, and then just started going to some good non-denominational churches where they just really focus on building the relationship with Christ and some amazing people and things to learn there too.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, I, I genuinely have these conversations a lot just about, because again, for me it's almost not fair because I don't have anything that I'm [00:43:00] promoting. So it's really easy to just say, well, here's what I think, you know, I, I don't have much, uh, responsibility I guess in this case because, you know, if, if I, if I'm putting together a puzzle, this is kind of the, the analogy that I use, I don't have the box in front of me that has the photo on it.

I'm just, if this piece fits well, it doesn't, okay, then I can throw it away. Mm-hmm. I think a lot of people spend time jamming the freaking piece in there to make sure it kinda looks like the photo. And I go. Be careful because, you know, you want, you wanna have a puzzle that stays together. And, uh, you know, that always comes back to the confidence thing.

Um, I mean, I, I have so many friends that are, that are Christian and I mean, I, I commend them for it. Mm. I absolutely love it. I also know a ton of people who are quote unquote Christian and carry themselves like shit. Yes. Yeah. And it pisses me off and I'm not even a Christian. Well, it goes back to what we were talking about at the beginning, which is like this authentic pursuit.

And I feel like if you're authentically [00:44:00] pursuing something you like, you're will, you have to like, be willing to get hurt. You have to be willing to like expose yourself to the downsides of having. Said belief. You can't just live in a vacuum and like, kind of just like pretend I call it like bumper sticker, like the bumper sticker lifestyle.

Like I identify as this, that, that thing. Yeah. And it's all just kind of protect you at the end of the day, but if you're like truly pursuing something, it comes at a cost. It does. That's it. That's like the bottom line. Yeah. That's why, that's why the debates, or at least just conversations about that stuff is cool because, I mean, look, someone's, someone's putting their fricking, putting themselves on the line.

They're going, well, let's, let's put it to the test. Yeah. You know, and I think a conversation with somebody that has differing beliefs, you're either going to teach something or learn something. Probably both, you know? And it's just, it's just valuable. Again, that's kind of the, uh, the why feels like an attack to a lot of people.

And when I, when I meet somebody who is Christian, and then I [00:45:00] go, why this? And they go, well, and then they talk through it and they, they. Try and think through. I go, well, fair enough. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Ask me something. Let's see. You know, and then it's just that kind of exchange. It's cool. Yeah. And then there's, you know, some of the best Christians too are the ones where they admit what they don't know, and then their justification is just something that they feel.

Yeah. Which kind of goes back to what you were talking, we were talking about confidence and the emotions that, things that you can't really quantify. It's just, you know, God is just something that they feel and they intimately experience, which is tough to put words to that too. It is. And I mean, fair enough.

You know, I, I, I have things that I can't, I can't just put my finger on and say, oh, this is exactly why I, I think childhood, uh, is kind of one of those, why, why did I start just asking a bunch of questions to myself and kind of observing that stuff I was talking about earlier? I mean, I don't, I don't know exactly why, you know, but, but some things just happen and you, uh mm-hmm.

You kind of live through [00:46:00] that experience and so, yeah. I mean. You, you get to the point of faith and then there's, do you have faith or do you not? Mm. You know, if it was just a pure factual by the book kind of thing, well then yeah, you could, uh, you could knock somebody for not having the answer. But, you know, in this case, uh, that is the differentiator.

Mm. I mean, do you guys know who Doug Elks is by chance? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So he is, he is a great friend of mine. He lives in Raleigh, so we both grew up there, really met a year ago. Oh, wow. Yeah, no, so, I mean, just super adjacent, probably, you know, a foot away. That's wild. Um, it's, it's insane. But I have these conversations with him all the time.

I freaking, I love Doug Elks. 'cause if there's anybody I know that, that plays the dang role. He plays the role, you know, and, uh, I mean it's, we're we're very similar in certain ways. You know, we both had plenty of things to learn what not to do in our upbringing. [00:47:00] And we're ju, I mean. We're, we're so far apart in kind of the quote unquote belief, but man, it comes from almost the exact same place.

Yeah. And that's what's fun to me. That's what's interesting to me, that that's how you know we're, we're individuals. Yeah. You know what I mean? We've both reached that place and he said, this is what I believe, and I go. I don't know. I mean, it seems pretty good. Maybe I believe something else I don't know yet, but that, that is kind of the authenticity I think that exists on both.

Mm. I think it's cool too, just observing both you guys is very strong individuals. Like I can see both of you guys having a huge impact through what you're doing, um, just because you guys are, you know, confident in and have tested your own beliefs in, in different ways. Yeah, yeah. And, and that's the thing.

He's testing it. Yeah. You know what I mean? He, he speaks, he has the conversations. He, he does put himself out there and I don't, I don't know if that's a, a baseline responsibility necessarily. Um, because I [00:48:00] mean, I think you can, you can practice what you believe in quietly too if you want to. Um, you know, I don't have to be posting all this stuff, I think on Instagram, but at the same time, I think when you're so compelled by the thing, you feel like there's something missing if you're not talking about it.

Mm-hmm. You know, if, if you're not letting people in on it and. That's, that's how I started what I do now. You know, I, my first video was day 1300 of the running every day. Really? Yeah. I mean, I, I literally had no intent of filming or documenting or turning it into anything. It, it was genuinely just a self, Hey, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do this thing every single day.

And yeah, around that point, day 1300, I said, God, people, people make their whole life and, and build a platform and have an impact based on stupid shit. I, I have some decent ideas again that I don't hear a lot from other people. There's gotta be a reason that I [00:49:00] should share this every day. I'm already running and doing the lifestyle.

All I have to do is pull out my phone and talk about it. You know, write down some ideas and keep building it. And it's funny because then I thought I was so refined and well thought out. I mean, you, you ask me the question back then it probably, uh, uh, uh, like, uh, uh, you know, that sort of thing. And you talk about confidence and speaking and building those kind of skills out.

That's why I know even more about myself now because I stayed in that. Yes. Um, but yeah, when you have the ideas, it's just go, man, I, someone's gotta hear about it. Right? And you want Netflix to come knock on your door and make a documentary, and you wanna be the chosen one, bro. Nobody's the chosen one. Yes.

But really it's just the feeling that you had. It powers the rational side of, oh, am I well-spoken enough? Can I do this? Am I articulate enough? You don't even care. You're just like, I've tapped into something that's special, that's changed my life. And I just think that if I put this out there, if it impacts one to 10 people, that's enough.

'cause that could potentially change their life. 'cause it changed your life at that point. Yeah. [00:50:00] Yeah. And it's, it's cool too because I'm so big on the communication thing we're talking about out there beforehand, but just constantly sharpening that skill because. If you know what you think, then you can translate the kind of person you are to other people.

Much better. So when I first started to do the running every single day, I mean, I'd hear it from everyone, you know, my mom would say, oh, it's silly. You don't need to be doing that every day. You know, you're gonna, you're sick, or it's Christmas or something. And I'd go,

you know, and, and I had nothing to say, yeah, why, why am I doing this? I knew it was kind of this internal sort of feeling sort of thing. And, you know, I listened to a David Goggins podcast. I go, dude, yeah, this is what I'm talking about. It is funny. I, the first time I listened to him on a podcast, I, uh, it was his, one of his episodes with Rogan.

And I, I literally started crying, listening to David Coggins talk about, he said, uh, you've always asked me Yeah, why, why I don't wanna run. And I said, [00:51:00] what do you mean? That's why I do it. And his voice raising like that, I just went. Oh, you know, oh wait, dude. Yeah. This is what I'm talking about. It, it was so funny looking, uh, or, or, or kind of feeling that way.

'cause he's not much of a, you know, emotions kind of guy, but it really is when you feel that way. Um, but yeah, I mean, it, it's, it's so, it's so crazy thinking back on times like that, but, you know, that's, that's what starts it. Yeah. You, you just feel so compelled about it. What would you say to your mom now if she asked you that same question?

Um, I would say, well, the keeping a promise is the foundation of having respect for yourself. You know, it's, it's the principle of it, you know, if I can know that, hey, this is, this is why I wake up, this is why I do this, then I can do it. You know, the, the purpose behind it there, there's always excuses where you can say, oh, well it's raining, or I'm tired, whatever.

But, but it's always more purpose if you do [00:52:00] it anyways. I mean, running is one thing. Running when it's raining a little bit more valuable because it's a little bit harder to do. Um, so doing it when I don't want to or when it doesn't make sense to, it's just a pure reinforcement of the kind of person that I would like to be.

It just matches that character over and over again and again. I mean, it's, some days it feels like it's hanging on by a string and you go, whoa, I know I've done this for a long time, but this is still a nice bath today, dude. So do you feel like, I feel like the, the mom, mom is probably the toughest one to hear the hear the criticism from.

Um, and I imagine at a certain point she is like. Maybe not fully understands why you're doing it, but for you to have kind of pulled the pieces together. Yeah. Um, maybe not like broken in in high school or middle school whenever it was, but feeling like you weren't where you were supposed to be or weren't where you wanted to be.

To the person now who's feels a certain level [00:53:00] of confidence, completeness through the commitment to yourself of keeping that promise. It's like she's gotta recognize at this point where it's like, all right, this is just what crew's gonna do. Like Yeah, crew, crew just does this and it's, it's important to you.

I mean, you know, she, she's been on my team for, uh, forever, for sure. I think it's just, you know, some things seem irrational, you know, and compared to what is normal, I guess doing that was irrational, you know, just in her experience to see your kid, you know, feel sad, and I mean, physically sick sometimes, and all that kind of stuff, and just walks down the stairs and opens the door again.

I, I don't know what that must be like. Right, because you, you feel for that person. You go, oh, well, don't be so hard on yourself and that kind of thing. And you go, well, just hang on. You know? And it kind of feels like that. I, I think, I bet plenty of people are listening right now or they've got things they're trying to work on and do, and [00:54:00] nobody quite understands it.

And it's always just a, just wait. You know what I mean? And when I'm in the counselor's office in middle school crying every single day and saying, well, you need to do this and, and get back into class and it's okay, I'm going just wait. You, you literally don't understand. You know what I mean? But I know the kind of person I'm gonna be and I feel trapped in this place.

How am I supposed to explain that to you when I would never want to be like you? Mm-hmm. You know? And, and I think a lot of people, again, exist in that just weight kind of phase. And that's where it's so hard because I talk about this concept in high school when I'm 17, I. I've been, I've been doing these things.

I'm so consistent. I'm trying to start businesses. I want to be the best version of myself. I'm, I'm thinking clearly I, I got some good ideas, whatever, on paper, I'm no better than the dude in the bathroom hitting his vape. And that sucks because you go, isn't this supposed to manifest somewhere into, into some value?

What the heck is going on? You know? And you, you [00:55:00] just go through these years of, man, I'm build, I'm trying to build so much value internally and there's still nothing to show for it. Mm. What the hell is wrong? Mm-hmm. You know, and, and that is a big part of the pain in the ass of trying to build something, you know, make a real impact.

Yeah. That's like the tangible secret sauce, right? Is um, that I, I think it's faith, right? Like the ability to keep sowing these seeds knowing that they're growing underground and literally no one else can see them besides you. And you're just like, I'm just gonna trust enough faith that this, the end is gonna justify the means if I keep doing this.

Yeah. Um, and you don't know when those things are gonna sprout, but once they do, you're like, oh my gosh, thank God I didn't stop. And I kept going, man. Yeah, yeah. Building that root system. Yeah. Like, like what is it? Like bamboo trees grow like hundreds of feet down before they sprout at all upwards. Yeah.

It's like, can you imagine being that bamboo tree? I did not know that. But I need to, I need to look into that. It's a good metaphor. It's a great metaphor. Yeah. That's, that's [00:56:00] really cool. Yeah. I mean, it, it is that, um, it's just the God, I, I try so hard not to say things, how people have already said it. So I'm so repelled by cliche.

Yes. You know what I mean? But it's, it's the work when nobody's watching the fricking Instagram real voiceover kind of thing. But it is true. It, it is very true. What, what the heck are you doing? What are you saying to yourself when there's nothing to show for it? I mean, that, that's just, that's the, that's the meat of the journey in a sense.

Um. Because, you know, it'd be way cooler to just say, oh, you know, I make a hundred KA month. Mom, check it out. This is why I run every day. You don't have that. You, you have a hundred bucks. Yeah. I think that's why go People, men in particular are obsessed with Goggins. That's why the tears are rolling down your eyes and you're listening to him.

I don't know if you listen to his most recent podcast on Huberman. It was maybe like a little over a year ago. I know what you're talking about. I don't think I listened to the whole thing, but it talks about the mid cingulate cortex. Heck Right. Talking about the cortex [00:57:00] and even, you know, scientific terms to it.

Yeah. And Goggins just like, no, like, what it feels like is you feel like you're just trapped in a dungeon and it's just fucking horrible. Yeah. Like that's the, like, that's what change actually feels like. 'cause it sucks and it's terrible. Yep. And you know, you have to keep going back to do it. But it's like, that's literally where the secret sauce is in, is like continuing to do that stuff.

Yeah. Yeah. And it, it keeps on getting glamorized through Instagram. Oh, doing hard things. No, it feels bad. It feels really bad. Really bad because when you're sad or uncomfortable or you're, any of these things, it, it, it is a, I mean, you're repulsed by the thought of getting out of bed, you know? And, and people think that it's a different experience for the person that does it so much.

And sure you have reps on your side, but, you know, when I wake up in the morning, it's, it's the same thing. I'm just so familiar with why I am about to get outta bed that I can just do it. Whereas some [00:58:00] people, I mean, they're paralyzed by want or not wanting to get outta bed, I guess. But it, it is, it's so tough to build the reps of that because it doesn't actually get easy.

And I use, I use weightlifting as a, as an example of this because, you know, if you go into the gym and you work up to 2 25 on deadlift or something, I mean, the stronger you get, 2 25 actually does get easier. But when it gets easier, you would want to lift a weight that's proportionally as difficult as 2 25 used to be.

So it doesn't actually get easier because there, there would be no point of accepting an easier reality when you know what you're capable of. Mm-hmm. So along with your capability, you now have the desire to, to kind of push that limit. But yeah, I mean it is, uh, it's just a hard thing. It's, it's so tough and I don't know, the same as the confidence thing I mentioned earlier.

People look at somebody who is quote unquote [00:59:00] disciplined. Oh, you know, wish that was me. That's just not a me thing. And you go, no. I mean, just, just do a thing a million times over and you would be the same. People. Try and feel like that kind of person before they act like 'em. You have to act like 'em before you feel like 'em.

How, um, so you've been molding yourself these last several years through this practice. How do you look into the future and see the version of crew like. You know, five years down the road. Yeah. Like, where do you kind of want to end up? Yeah, yeah. Uh, I would say simply put more, more impact, um, knowing more people.

I mean, I keep it so simple in that because if I, if I create two specific of an image, I'm probably putting a ceiling somewhere. You know, I, I, I'm not a, I'm not a big five and 10 year goal kind of person necessarily, because today will be taken care of to the fullest extent tomorrow will be taken care of.

To the fullest extent, that's gonna [01:00:00] be the case for every individual day between now and five and 10 years. Five and 10 years are locked and loaded. I mean, it's gonna be the best that it possibly could be because I'm not leaving anything on the table today. Mm-hmm. That, that's kind of where the zoom in thing becomes really.

It becomes really palatable, but it, it's also a, it's a tool. To get through the day. You know, this is something that's actually very useful because again, if, if I'm trying to, if I'm trying to comprehend five years worth of having to do stuff to put it simply miss me with that, I do, I do not want to, to do five years of waking up every day at ice bath and run.

Lucky me. Yeah. I just gotta do it once. Yeah. Nothing's getting done. If you're talking about that way, it's true. I've heard it said like, you know, if you're thinking, if you're anxious, it's 'cause you're thinking too far into, or you're living in the future. If you're living with any level of like fear, shame, guilt, you're living in the [01:01:00] past.

So it's like, yeah. Compressing everything into the day, like what you can actually do about it is simply the most important thing you can do. Man. I talk about the anxious mind. I used to be the person, first of all, when something gets baked into your identity, even if it's a bad thing, you have a really hard time breaking away from that.

If somebody says, I'm depressed. Then life gets a little bit better. They're actually gonna have a really hard time breaking away from that because it's familiar. We we're not always so attracted to what's good, but I was a guy that would say, I'm, I'm so anxious. All I do is worry all the time. It would be Friday getting out of school, and I would go, well, tomorrow's Saturday.

That's gonna be fun. But the next day is Sunday and Sunday's the day before school starts again. I mean, never lived in the moment. Yeah. You know, it was just always looking forward to what's next? What's next? What's going to tear me down next? Right. Getting out of school practically, that was a freaking sweet ticket to have less of those things happen.

Um, but yeah, getting out of [01:02:00] that, I mean, it, it takes a lot of work, obviously, very possible. But, um, you know, I, I keep now such a, such an optimistic theme of my life so that I can, I. Honestly, um, what am I trying to say here? So I can honestly experience the downs, right? So when, when people have the, the down of the, you know, the life chart, they let that define themselves In a lot of cases I go, oh, today sucks.

This was the worst shit ever. I hate this. This person sucks. I'm fine to say stuff like that because my, my full theme, you know, the narrative of my life story is pure optimism. Mm-hmm. You know, so I think people will try and be momentarily positive, but they see their whole life defined as a negative. I just do the opposite.

Yes. I, I'm fine to be a, a momentary pessimist and just be pissed off about something, whatever, because it feels good in the moment. Yes. And you also know that you're not gonna attach to it for five [01:03:00] days like a lot of people do. Yes. That's why, oh man, this, I think what you're saying again, is so powerful.

'cause it's, it's mental, it's mental and spiritual programming. It's like, program yourself or be programmed by the world. And you think about how much you hated school as a kid, if all school did was teach you actually how to think because you were clearly blessed with like this almost, um, you could see yourself from like a third party perspective.

'cause you'd be like, what am I thinking about? What does this person thinking about? How do they perceive me? You clearly had that. A lot of kids don't, if all teachers did was just teach us how to think at a young age, you probably would've absolutely loved school. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I mean the, the third person thing, that's a, that's how I always put it too, because you're, you're stepping back almost and you're observing yourself and I think, uh.

I think it might have been Joe Rogan, but he has this little, this little cliff where he is saying, you know, watch yourself as if you're in a movie. You know? And what would you want the main character of the movie to do? And you kind of live that way. I mean, we, we all have, I try, I try to not do the [01:04:00] chosen one thing, but we all feel like, you know, we're the chosen one.

Yeah. Yeah. One day someone's gonna reveal that I've been doing all this for the right reason. And, you know, again, Netflix doesn't necessarily come knocking on the door to make the documentary, but, uh, I think we make our own versions of that if we, if we kind of stick around for long enough. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like, um, there's this relationship between self-consciousness and self-awareness that like when you're early on in your adolescence, like.

It might be some level of self-consciousness where you're like, oh, I don't feel fully confident in this part about me or that part about me. I haven't fully matured in those ways. And then it can grow into a self-awareness that's a strength. Yeah. Um, and I think like the two sides of that blade can be very powerful.

Yeah. Uh, it, it sounds like that's kind of like what you tapped into a bit, where it was like, okay, I don't like being here. I'm like consciously aware of it. It makes me not feel great. Let me do something about it. Yeah. And it was funny too because outside of the environment, I would, I would have the [01:05:00] conversations with myself where I would go, I'm here right now.

I can talk to myself. I can control what I do. I ought to be able to do this in, in that environment. I can just talk to myself and observe everything and just do my thing. This is how I am. Right. And then pull into school and then again, and it's gone. And I go, what the hell is wrong here? Why is that leaving me?

This is, this is my whole thing. And the other funny thing too, you, you'll see that a lot of people who are self-aware are the ones questioning if they are self-aware. Hmm. I'm always thinking, man, do I know, do I know what I look like and kind of how I come off to people? Or am I just the biggest walking blind spot ever?

That person probably is self-aware. You're self, you're self-aware. People who are unaware of how they act are just fully oblivious. Yeah. Have you heard of the, the fact that some people literally do not have the internal dialogue at all? Interesting. Yeah. No, I've never heard of that. Yeah. As in some people just straight [01:06:00] up don't talk to themselves in, inside their head.

They're either talking to somebody maybe out loud. I, I, I heard this a few times. I reheard it recently. I go. No way, dude. There's no way. What would you do? What I, what would I do all the time? I, I have no idea. I mean, I guess just popping the headphones or whatever, but that's like, gotta be just a certain level of like fully distracted or like trying to, I don't, I don't know.

Like you're just numb to your experience. Like constantly cons. I, I view that as like a byproduct of consumerism. Yeah. Where it's like constantly kind of just like fed Yep. How to think, what to think. Yeah. It's true. I mean, I, uh, I'm, I'm a huge fan of, of trying to detach from that stuff as much as possible.

So at the house, I, I live with four of my friends, but we do, uh, no phone, dinner, you know, so it's just, just put the phone away, just Yeah. Be a human being. Oh gosh. How, how virtuous and skillful right now. Now it's a thing you have to proactively do, whereas at one point it was just, it [01:07:00] was just living. Um, I, I was, I was on Michael's podcast and we talked about this, but I said, you know, if I go to the dentist and I'm in the waiting room, I wait.

I don't look at my phone because it's a waiting room. Let me, let me just spend this time sitting here as, as a human would at one point and just wait for the thing that I'm here for. And I look around and everyone's on their phone and it's just, it's weird. Yeah. You know? Have you ever just fully Rod hogged a flight?

Yeah. Yeah. Just know the last flight I took. No headphones, no book. Just staring at the same, yeah. I will say it was only a a three-ish hour flight, so it wasn't anything wildly impressive, but yeah, I just looked at the seat. Yeah. When people are like, oh, I'm alm, I'm so much more creative on the flight.

Yeah. Say, well, you didn't have your phone on you. Yeah. That's why. Right. Like the other day I was at a restaurant and my phone died. I realized that as soon as the phone died, I put it back in my pocket and I literally just like looked at the full landscape of the restaurant for the first time. Yeah. And I was like, [01:08:00] what if, how, like, how many of these versions of just being able to appreciate something that's amazing.

Am I missing out on? 'cause I'm tapped in. Yeah. Yeah. I'm a, I'm a huge advocate. Uh, again, I, I spoke about this with the, with Michael on his podcast, so if anyone's heard both, you can, you'll be all right. But, uh, we, we were talking about this very thing and the gym just out in public anywhere, most people are, they got their earbuds in, they're doing their thing.

I'm so big on listening and observing. I don't, I don't, if I go run or go to the gym, I don't wear headphones. I just always wanna listen because you pick up on stuff like you would not believe you, you can have a really good sense of, uh, you know, the, the social environment of a certain place if you just listen.

You don't have to be involved in every conversation. You don't have to be just staring at people walking by, but you know, you, you pick up on some things. You know what people do. You know how people [01:09:00] interact. You pick up on these small little nuances of communication and, oh, that person was a little clunky.

Or, oh, that person is really overbearing and they don't really recognize it. I mean, the, this is a wealth of knowledge, especially if you're in an environment consistently that I absolutely love. I mean, I, I'm so, I'm so delighted to just pick up on those things because if someone's got their headphones in, I, I always use this little example, but you know, I'll see somebody walking out a door and they don't think anyone's behind them.

They're just listening to their thing. Just let the door go. Person behind them immediately hates this person. 'cause they didn't hold the door for me. Yeah. And I go, well, if you only had, uh, had been listening, maybe you see their shadow and you kinda hear their footsteps behind you, you would've held the door.

And this person would've had a completely different view of who you are. Maybe it doesn't matter. Perhaps it does though. You know what I mean? And those kind of things, uh, they, they compound over time in those experiences. I mean, again, it [01:10:00] builds a wealth of knowledge. Mm. Yeah. You're making me think about just how distracted most people actually are and like myself included at, at certain points.

But it's just like, if you can get yourself undistracted and just tapped into that observant, you know, third party. Yeah. Um, there, there's so much, there's so much out there for, for us to there learn and, and just pull into our own life. Yeah. And I mean, simply put, I just like, if someone's gonna call my name, I wanna know.

Yes. Yeah. You know what I mean? I've, I've had so many times where I'll just be, i'll, I'll see a friend walking back, yo, whatever. They just straight up, don't hear me. I go, mm-hmm. You're not gonna, you're not gonna see me today because you didn't hear me. Just call your name and you're 10 feet away. This is crazy.

It's 'cause they've got their headphones in, got their headphones in. Dang. You know? And, uh, yeah. I'm just, I'm, I'm just an advocate of, of the observation. Yeah. You know, just listening, being aware. Love. Yeah. The ability to detach is a, is a true [01:11:00] superpower amongst these Gen Zers. I know, I know. See, we're, we're kind of, we're a little rough, we're a little, a little entitled and spoiled, but there's some funny people, as I was mentioning earlier there, some, there's some good lingo and stuff, but, uh, yeah, the, the chs, the hus, the chop, the glaze, you all that glaze is another good one.

What's that one? Glaze is when you're, uh. You're, you're hyping someone up. Too much glazing. Oh, I actually saw, I saw that in a comment. I had no idea what, yeah, I was, I was like, what? Yeah. Uh, as kissing, basically. Okay. All right. Glaze. You know, so funny. Love it. It's a good one. Yeah. We could do a whole pod where he's just reading off terms, have no idea.

You just like, uh huh. Yep. Yep. Yeah. Um, dude, I, I wanted to ask you about, uh, you had a post that went absolutely nuclear. It was like 52 million views. Yeah. What was the process for you? Just like actually processing what was happening, like, yeah. 52 million people just saw your face, saw your message. Like what [01:12:00] was that like?

Man, uh, crazy actually, because up to that video, at that point, I had 7,000 followers on Instagram. I had been posting for a minute, I mean. In and out of just, why am I doing this? Nobody gives a crap about, what I'm saying is, are my videos just not good? I feel like I'm bringing some value here. It's 2000 views relentlessly.

You know what I mean? And then just like this. Yeah, yeah. Just clicking along, nothing happening. And then I post this video and I literally wrote it as kind of a defense to myself. Mm. So for anybody that hasn't seen it, it's, I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't have around, I don't party. I don't go out. Am I lame for that?

Absolutely. And to be lame in the eyes of somebody I would never want to be like, is nothing but an absolute success. So it was kind of this, well, I don't do any of the cool things. I suck, but I don't wanna be like the people that think I suck anyways, so I'll be okay. I [01:13:00] mean, it got, it got perceived as the biggest jab ever to about every human in the world.

Yeah. And it was, it was so crazy. But I posted that video. I put on TikTok and Instagram, and I think on Instagram it just started to kind of pick up and I see a K next to the view count. I go no shot because I, I mean, would literally never hit 10 K. And I don't know, people just start posting and just get these crazy views right off the bat.

Go, what the hell? And I saw that I go no shot. I think, I think the next day when it started to pick up, I saw my followers were at 10 K and I went, dog, I made it. Let's go. This is amazing. And if you look at the analytics of that video, I ended up getting, I think 220,000 follows from that video. Wow. So 220,000?

Yeah. From that video. Yeah. Crazy. So just over, I mean the, the [01:14:00] next day, I think it was at 50 k, the next day I was at a hundred K followers. And then. I think over the next couple months it went up to 300 k. That's, and this video, man, I mean, I can't remember, it was one morning, it was around when I hit that 10 K followers kind of point.

My phone is on silent and I wake up and my phone's going. It literally woke me up. I'm a pretty heavy sleeper and I go, what the, is this a Amber alert? You know, or one of those things? Or is someone calling me and I go over to my phone, I just see notification after notification. I'm going, what is happening right now?

This is crazy. And so, I mean, there's 40,000 comments on it. It's 40,000 people saying dude's a piece of shit. No, it's definitely not all of it. It was an overwhelming amount of positivity as well. Oh yeah. But just so many people shitting on it. I mean, that's kind of how [01:15:00] things blow up. Yes. Yeah. Again, genuinely was not my intent to be a huge jab kind of thing.

Yeah. It was more of a, Hey, you know, let me protect myself. Um, man, I would be swinging my leg over the ice bath in the morning and just four uh, comments would come through on my phone as I'm setting my timer. Just, this dude sucks. This guy's a piece of shit. I'm going, oh my God. And so, you know, it turned off my notifications pretty quickly after that.

And then, uh, yeah, man, it's, it's crazy because I, I'm saying very similar things, you know, internally, I'm not much of a different person than even then. That was a year and some change ago, but I. More people knowing about it. I mean, that's, that's kind of changed life in a big way. Hmm. That's the bamboo tree, right?

It's you're literally, yeah. You're literally just posting and posting and posting and posting and then this one mental model that you say to yourself every single day. You just decide for whatever reason to turn that into a piece of content. Yeah. And that's the thing [01:16:00] that everyone knows you for. Yeah.

It's just who you are. Yeah. And people say, you know, make that post. You never know. Well make 2000 posts. Yeah. And then let me know. I mean, I think that was because, I mean, it was my second, uh, 662nd, uh, running video that I made, but I would post twice a day. So it's something like 1300 videos. Dang. You know, before something actually took off and 'cause TikTok, I think during that process some would blow up.

TikTok is so garbage, in my opinion. Yeah. I mean, just mindless. I think so. I. There are plenty of people who just make pure value content and crush it. So I'm probably just more so complaining. But I mean, you can, you can build a big following, but it doesn't just feed it to your followers. It's just kind of every post stands on its own.

Mm-hmm. And so, yeah, I don't, I don't get a ton of love from TikTok, but, you know, we'll, we will get back to it. Yeah. We'll get back. Did you, [01:17:00] um, so you said you wrote out that piece of content. Was that, is that something that you were doing at the time, like writing stuff out to then go say on the run? Yeah, that's, that's what I do.

Okay. So, yeah. So you, you'll do that basically every single time? Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, again, when I get back from my morning run, that's when I sit down and write and try, because the ideas that I'm talking about on the run are the, are the ones where I'm trying to say so much and really condense it into something tangible.

Here you go. So there, there's kind of a, I don't know, I don't want to over glamorize it, but there's kind of an artistry to it. Mm-hmm. Where I, I try to make the way I say something. Really nice and really well thought out. I, I just put a lot of time and energy into that. And then of course I'll do more of the raw, just chatting about something kind of stuff.

But yeah, that's, that's usually how I go about that. I don't, I don't read it off the thing. People think I have a teleprompter or something. They say, what gimbal do you have? I'm think I just holding my phone. Um, but [01:18:00] yeah, it's just, uh, I just look over and kind of remember what it is I wrote and then I'll just say it.

Yeah. 'cause that video, you, you, uh, I mean you smashed it with just like how the delivery came across. It was like just so well timed. Thanks. Yeah. You had the Michael smoke effect going on. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Just able to deliver it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's funny because you just get so familiar with the way that you say things, right.

You know, and you, you kind of, I mean, it's funny to think, right? Some people talk for a living and then some people can just pinpoint impersonate them. And that's just the way that this person talks, but yet there's something so, uh, uh, outstanding about it that people can just pick up on it and copy it.

Mm. You know what I mean? It's, and it's funny to think that, I mean, I even recognize little things in my own, speaking of just the cadence and mm-hmm. And the pacing of certain things, but Yeah. Yeah. The art of, it's really cool too. Just the, it's, it's probably a great part of your day just to be able to just go into [01:19:00] the lab and just write and create, and no one's really looking at you at the time, but just finding that like perfect nugget that you wanna share with the world too.

Yeah. It's, it's, I mean, I prompt myself too. I just say, what do I think? You know, and then I kind of give myself just a general time to sit there and maybe think about what I'm dealing with or think about what someone close to me is dealing with, thinking about what likely most people are dealing with, and try and provide some sort of perspective.

Again, really trying to say it in a way that people have not already heard. Because I just, I just hear the things repeated over and over again. I go, oh my God, this, yes, I, I hate it so much and, and a big one that I'm, I'm passionate about. It's just the kind of reassuring people that they're overprocessing and they think so much and they have all this energy and it seems to be so problematic because the people around them don't match that, that that's good.

You know, and people always say, oh, let your mind rest. Don't judge yourself so harshly. Oh, you're valuable without doing [01:20:00] anything. Come on. That's not true. Everybody knows that's not honest. But, you know, I, I try to find, I try to find honesty and a new way to say things. Um, and, and just like anybody that's trying to make an impact, you kind of speak to the people that need a kick in the ass to actually go do something.

But, but where it's very, uh, near and dear is when I'm talking to the person that already does the thing to the furthest extent and feels like nobody else does. Or nobody is ever going to understand. And that's, that was kind of me for a really long time. Um, so speaking to that is, is really close. Hmm. Do you find yourself having a lot more older friends given the fact that you kind of, uh, you've kind of like aged out of, you're the 24-year-old age group in terms of maturity?

I mean, for sure. Uh, not necessarily, not necessarily age wise. I mean, I, I know a lot of people around my age [01:21:00] as well that are just sharp as a t and they're, and they're doing the thing. I think, I think those characteristics stand out pretty quickly. Um, whether it's lifestyle or just the way that somebody communicates.

And, I mean, I'm, I'm so lucky, you know, 'cause I'm just so stubborn in the way that I, the way that I am. So I just attract people that are. Kind of about it. Yeah. You know, and they, they understand and, uh, you know, the, the type of friend group that'll just do the no phone dinner. And people think that good ideas are good ideas instead of being annoying or being a prick or something.

So, yeah, I mean it's, it's kind of cool to have found those people and, and more and more people just because again, when you approach meeting somebody with honesty, confidence. They just get the real deal right away. Yes. So you figure out pretty quick who's gonna be a part of that. Yeah. It's the benefit of, uh, meeting someone for the first time and doing a podcast with 'em.

Right. And you went real deal right from right from the jump. A hundred percent. You guys went from sun maxing to podcast, pod [01:22:00] podcast to do it. Yeah. See, yeah. The only way to do it. Yeah, brother. Hundred percent appreciate you doing this, man. Just giving us some, like, just a bigger insight into the way you think and your journey.

And I feel like you've opened up on some topics that you might have, haven't gotten to talk as much about, but um, man, we just appreciate you and all the work that you're doing for people. So heck yeah man. This, this is the fun. Again, just, uh. You know, I, I love, I love the question why? 'cause I think about it, it all the time, and so it's just, this is the best time ever.

This is the most fun thing for me. So I appreciate you guys. Yeah. Appreciate you too. Don't wanna glaze too hard, but hey. Yeah, like, let's go, let's go. He's already using it. Professional. He's dropping it in. He's a pro. He is a pro. Appreciate you brother. We'll have to get a run in soon. Let's do it. Let's do it.

My, my foot's on the, on the healing renaissance, as I say, so we're, we're making it happen. Love it back. Thank you. Appreciate it. Cool.