#398 Jacob Donahue: Finding Your Muse Through Discipline and Curiosity

donahue
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[00:00:00] Fellows Muse. This has been a, this has been muse. Uh, this has been a long time coming. It has what, 10 years plus in the making? Potentially. I don't know. When did we graduate? Yeah, we, you and I graduated, well, I graduated Harry 2016, me 2017. You 20 20 18. Jacob, you 2017? Yeah. Okay. But we're the same. You're 30, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Whoa, whoa, whoa. On the spot there, you're 31, right? Well, those juniors hockey players, do, they all graduate college at 27, so Yeah. I think MZ is 40 at this point, so, yeah. Too funny. Uh, so you graduated in 2017, but you were, you were playing baseball where before Babson seat. Paul C. Paul. Yeah. Okay.

But I, I did a post grad year too, so I really should have graduated 2016, the HUN School in Princeton. Where'd Joey D go? We're gonna say all these names, you're just shouting everyone out, like people know names. But for anyone, anyone for anyone listening, we've got Jacob Donahue on the podcast, fellow Babson Beaver, uh, hockey player though.

So yeah. Still a little contentious rivalry here. We, we really couldn't start a [00:01:00] relationship until after college. Yeah. While we were in school. Bab uh, Babson baseball and hockey players, we couldn't even really start a relationship until we got to Austin. True. We had to like get out, get out of Austin.

Yeah. Very true. I always love the hockey guys though. Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. We discipline knew how to have fun too. Yeah. I think the first time we really hung out was I, what was the, what year was the Patriots game? Where they played Atlanta? They came back. I think we were all hanging out in York Suite actually watching.

Yes. That was a good time. Yeah, we had some good times. I mean, so for the listener, we all went to Babson together. Like Harry said, you played hockey, we played baseball. And then I think we've all had a somewhat similar but different arc too, where we kind of recognized that like the Northeast and New England ultimately wasn't where we were supposed to be.

And I remember 2021, middle of Covid, I was living in new, I was living in New Jersey because I was in New York City, but then I got outta the, got outta New York because it was so desolate and I saw my vocabulary. We're gonna try not to crack up this podcast too many [00:02:00] times. Desolate. You def definitely got 32 on your a CT.

Yeah. But I saw that you had moved to Austin, but we never communicated about that before. And I thought that was so cool that you had, uh, kind of like broken outta the mold of New England and we were just doing a thing. Should him, should we give him the baked chicken story the first night you came down here?

Oh yeah. That was, that was, no, we'll stick with the baked chicken. Yeah. The long story short, Brett and I met up when we, when like the first weekend Brett came down here, moved down here. Mm-hmm. I'd been here for maybe six months, still getting my feet wet. I set up a double date for Brett and I, we got like an hour into it and I looked at Brett and I'm like, dude, do you wanna go make baked chicken and just like, go sit on my couch?

So I say, I think Brett said to these two like nice young ladies, like, Hey. This is great, but we're gonna go make some baked chicken into that. Dude, that was you that said that. Listen, you said, listen ladies, this has been a phenomenal time. Um, but I'm honestly really tired. I've just been prioritizing sleep a lot lately, so we're, we're probably gonna dip out.

Oh. And then we literally just hung out for two hours. He made chicken. Uh, we were talking about carnivore a little bit too. 'cause you [00:03:00] weren't even really on the red meat train at that point. Yeah, I was running a lot. Eating a lot of greens and chicken. Yeah. And my body was a mess. My knees were hurting ankles, everything.

And I remember Brett, you said to me like, dude, you gotta eat more meat, like your body's deteriorating on you. And I started to eat more red meat. And what do you know started running faster and it's being more of a savage. And look at you now. What was, um, so you didn't, you, did you start all four years at the B Yeah, I had, I had a really, uh, great college hockey trip.

Babson. I was lucky. Granted, I, I busted my ass prior right. Um, before getting there. But yeah, I started. Soon as I stepped on campus, had a really good career, played 98 games, almost hit a hundred hundred's like the benchmark. Wow. Um, I got benched like the last three games my senior year. So I think that, uh, too many fights.

No, truthfully, man, I just lost interest in, um, hockey my senior year, probably after Christmas. And it had nothing to do with the program or the guys I was playing with or coach. And I loved [00:04:00] that all it was, I had done it for so long and I was starting to see that there was no next step in h with hockey, as in it wasn't gonna be a career for like, I, I could have stretched out just as you, and you probably could have played ball somewhere for a little bit afterwards.

Right. But I didn't feel like doing that. I wanted the next chapter. So I started to just tap out of hockey and by the time playoffs came around, I was like, I couldn't even play. I was so bad, but not, not that bad, but. Did you feel, did you feel like you were burnt out when you were done? 'cause I couldn't, I didn't, I don't think I watched a baseball game for like two years.

Have you played at all since? No, I haven't stepped on the ice since graduation. After playing, playing hockey probably every day of my life for, from the age of, let's just say 12. Mm-hmm. To 23, 24. And then I haven't stepped on the ice only five years. So now, yeah, I was totally burnt out. It's such a weird experience and I feel like so many college athletes or so many athletes do that where it's like you basically spend your [00:05:00] entire childhood in high school just like focusing on your sport and then just boom, one day you like, you don't touch.

I don't, I literally can't remember the last time I touched a baseball. Baseball. Yeah. We should do that. Yeah, we definitely should do. Do you, don't you think it's kind of healthy though? It's almost like whatever your relationship is with that, you, it's run its course. Yeah. You've given everything you've had.

To whatever you're doing. And it's like, man, I got nothing left to give. Whether it's a relationship. I've been lucky enough to have both, like relationships and endeavors in my life where I feel like they ended the exact same way where it was a mutually like hockey. I've had enough of you hockey's, like, Jacob, I've had enough of you, uh, relationship with person X.

I've had enough of you. I've had enough of you. Or not, not enough enough. Maybe a negative term, but like you've, you've given it your all mm-hmm. On both sides, and it's like Okay. Onto the next. Yeah. Yeah. So there was a, there was a little bit of time there where I felt guilty almost that looking at like, everything my mom, my dad, my sister gave for me, my teammates, my friends and family to get me to where I was in hockey.

And then for me to just kind of say [00:06:00] afterwards, uh, don't wanna play anymore, don't wanna lace them up. Mm-hmm. I was guilty about that for a bit, but then looking back, I'm went, no, I think that's actually healthy. Yeah. Yeah. I think when you step away from the game a bit, like for me, it took a lot of personal reflection upon like, why did I like baseball to begin with?

And a lot of it was just coming down to like, the game within the game. So like the preparation, the moments where you're in like a one-on-one battle with somebody and you're just like grinding it out, whether you're a batter or pitcher. Um, just or, or just like those moments where you're like overcoming adversity and the moment of reflection being, I gotta figure out a way to find this in, in real life.

Yeah. Not just in this game setting, you know? Like, yeah. I think there was a point where I was just like, gosh, am I just gonna be playing this game my whole life? Like, it's fun. Like I love being an athlete. I love that identity, but I feel like there's something more tangible out there to actually do. I feel like you, both of you guys have done a really good job of gamifying.

The [00:07:00] current stage of life you're in though. Mm-hmm. Almost of the ver besides your, uh, silver dollar word vocabulary. When you, when you, when the, both of you use more of the bro type talk. Mm-hmm. To me it's you guys gamifying, like when we talk about maxing or when we talk about slot polls Yeah. Stuff like that.

It's a sort of gamification of life, but in a sense it, it's making the challenging things fun, right? Weakness, maxing, slot maxing. Like what is slot maxing at its core, right? Like, well, you're in a battle to feed yourself properly, to fuel yourself to get up and do it the next day. And when you can take more of a fun approach to it, gamifying it.

Find that game in the next venture, I find makes it easier. It definitely does. I feel like our, you know what, I'm sorry to, you know what I'm saying though, with like the way you talk or way we, we talk to each other when off camera when I'm not trying to be professional. Yeah, yeah. Or I, it's when people see your I Instagram, right.

Like, what was the, uh, you posted a story the day of Brett locked in at the desk, right? And it's like, prime example, he's like, he's locked in. He's got three [00:08:00] or four things on his desk that he's using to gamify this situation and just keep going. So, yeah, it's actually funny because I, um, I was listening to the podcast, you know Chris Williamson?

Yeah. So Chris Williamson just interviewed Naval and I've for a long time just like respected both of them a lot and just how they're able to articulate life and they distill down just like those principles that we're, we all talk about in just a very simple way. And Naval goes, you know, if you can find those things that you can make seem like you feel like it's play, like it feels like play to you, but it's like it's work to other people.

Like that's when you're in your zone of genius. And that, that one was, I, I wrote about this in our newsletter this week. It's gonna come out tomorrow. But I think there's like, there's something there that is challenging to me because I do think that we're supposed to bring this like lightness to the way we're.

Going about our work, but then we're also supposed to like carry hard things and like carry the burden. So it's, it's kind of like more of the, how you go about doing it, [00:09:00] but how you go about doing your work. But the also knowing that, hey, like I want to be a CrossFit athlete in the 2026 games. That's an ambitious goal, but I'm gonna have fun doing it.

Yeah. 'cause that fun is gonna propel me to that that start line. Yeah. Like to the point where I know like, I'm gonna be able to sustain this. If you're not having fun, you can't, you're not gonna sustain it. Did, did he use the term fun or was He said fun and I was like, I was like, is it fun? And then, or and then he also is talking about just like happiness in general, which challenged me a lot.

'cause I, you know, I think happiness is a tough thing to aim at. Like, if you aim at happiness, I feel like a lot of times you end up not being happy. It's like the work in between, like what you're doing with CrossFit training for, uh, for each individual. I know for me at least, I need to figure out what makes me happy.

Right. And I need to work towards those things that make me happy. Mm-hmm. It's like, for me, recently identifying weakness. Think of it this way, right? If you're really good at something already, there was definitely a point in time when you were working [00:10:00] on that skill that you were good at, where you were continually getting happy from it.

Right. But you're probably at a point now with that skill, at least there are things in my life where the, the incremental gains mm-hmm. To get better at that skill are so few and far between, or require so much more exponential growth that it's almost not even fun to work on that anymore. Yes. And it's probably a sign, or at least I take it as a sign that I don't really need to, maybe not, or I maybe don't need to work on that as much anymore.

Mm-hmm. But instead, all right, take a step back. Where are you gonna see the growth that is gonna create, allow you to be, have more fun, that's gonna allow you, or give you momentum to keep piling onto that. Yes. Right. So like, uh, think about your curve ball, how long it took you, it's so cheesy to say, but like for a while it probably took you months and months and months and years and little league blowing out your elbow and other coaches down on Long Island screaming at you, stop, blah, blah, so on and so forth.

But then you have to transition and you have to work on another skill, another, uh, another pitch. Yes. Takes more time. But then when you start to strike people out with that, you're like, sh, crap, I wanna throw [00:11:00] that even more. Mm-hmm. And I wanna get better at throwing them. Mm-hmm. Right. That's the, that's kind of the juxtaposition of business versus CrossFit in terms of like, I feel like with business, it's actually a smart thing to almost outsource your weaknesses to other team members.

I think that's something Harry and I have learned a lot, where in the beginning you're kind of just, you, you're almost forced to eat shit for a long period of time. So like, like for me, I love sales, but for a period of time I was like, oh, you have to worry about operations and p and l and hiring people and things I don't love to do.

And then you eventually get to a point where it's like. No. If you love selling, you can actually get to a point financially where you can hire people that love the things that you're weak at and they compliment those weaknesses. For someone like you doing a individual sport in CrossFit, you have to just be all the guys are just so fricking well-rounded.

So you literally have to triple down on your weaknesses if you want to be able to make to the games and compete. Well-rounded, well rounded brother, well-rounded shoulder caps. Yeah, everything. Do you think that, do you think there's any truth to that? [00:12:00] Yeah, I, I 100% agree. Mm-hmm. I think you hit the nail on the head.

Um, repeat that 'cause I got, I got distracted by the well-rounded. No, I was just saying bi business. I think it's a good thing in business to outsource your weaknesses. Yet in an individual, like a sport like you're doing, you literally can't outsource those weaknesses necessarily. But at the same time, it also feels good to run towards the weak things that you've been putting off for a long period of time.

Like when you can finally like, confront the dragon, like whatever that is to you. Agreed. And where are you with that in business right now? 'cause it's a question I like as me, me, I'm more in the individual space, right? Mm-hmm. I'm not, I wouldn't say I'm in, uh, in the entrepreneurial space yet. I'm scratching the surface, right?

Yeah. So as I get there, it's probably a, a, a hurdle after overcome, where are you guys with it? Are you still trying to do everything yourself? Or was there a point in time where you found it beneficial for you to do it all yourself? Or if you could go back, would you say, this is my bread and butter. I'm really good at sales.

Harry's really good at [00:13:00] nothing. Marketing, branding. Yeah. The creative, the more community building. The community building is what I was gonna say. Right. If you were to do it all again, would you, uh, 'cause I, I know I watched from the outside, like you guys were doing it all right? Mm-hmm. Would you start again?

Would you hire out right away or would you outsource right away? Or would you still try to bootstrap and be the Mr. Renaissance man doing it all? How would you you answer that? I wouldn't change the thing. I think the context of knowing that. I think there's just a, a part of you that's always curious whether or not like it, it's just an ego thing or just learning through this process.

But I think you, you have to realize, you have to come to the, you have to own the fact that you're not supposed to be the person that's doing 15 different things, um, in order for it, for whatever we're working on in the business world to actually get to where it's supposed to go. Like I think that, yeah, there's a world where like Brett and I are still kind of like trying to do everything and [00:14:00] I don't think we would have any of the uniquely qualified and talented people around us because we would just be trying to stretch ourselves into areas that we really shouldn't be.

So yeah, I think it's important to actually go through that period and, and struggle with it. And then, yeah, come to the realization that if you want to do something big, it requires a team. It requires like a, just a cross pollination of different efforts and different strengths. Um, and then. It's more fun working on the stuff that you're good at.

Like, I think at the end of the day, it's also like a fulfilling your God giving gifts. Like if, if I'm great at building community, but I'm stuck doing things that aren't oriented towards that, it's almost, it feels like a shame. It's like I feel almost ashamed that I'm not able to like step into that, that thing that I'm uniquely qualified to do.

Mm. You know, you say shame Ashamed. Ashamed. Yeah. Or like, it, it would be a shame if I'm not able to [00:15:00] actually like, make that step and be like, like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do that. Um, so yeah. I don't know. Would you, do you resonate with that? I, I definitely do. I think we probably could have saved ourselves a lot of pain up front.

By outsourcing it yet the, my relationship with pain now is, that's okay. I'm, can you just let me be serious? We were like 10 seconds. You're actually, you're gonna like this though, dude. I, I think, God, my different, the difference now is like, God, I believe wants us to experience, wanted us to experience that pain for a reason as a teaching tool.

And part of why I have pride behind that period is like I, dude, I just felt so safe and insulated in what I was doing in New York City was like, you know, incredible parents. My dad was a baseball player, I became a baseball player, you know, he was in sales. I chose to be in sales. Like, everything was very safe and predictable.

And I think part of what was so attractive about doing [00:16:00] what we're doing now with Meat Mafia and Noble, it was like, like zero connections knew. No one in Austin, like zero lifeboat. And it just felt, it felt really good to like actually take a true risk for the first time. In my life and like get kicked in the balls in a good way.

What was the first risk you took? Like, or was there a tipping point in New York City where you're like, I cannot do this anymore? Or was it more that there was a sign that this is not what I'm supposed to be doing? Right. I feel like it could go one of two ways. You could have been working on something on the side, interested in it and then something happened.

Or was it, there was a day at work where you're like, I can't do this and I need to start working on something else? Yeah. Well I remember when I got my first job at a IG, they made all the analysts take a, some type of a business personality test and then they kind of match your archetype, like with your score.

And mine was like a 99th percentile entrepreneur. But I'm like, I don't, I'm like, this is awesome, but I don't know what business I wanna start and that's, and I wasn't faithful. I think a lot of [00:17:00] people feel that way, Brett. Yeah. I think there's a lot of people out there. Inherently. I think as humans we are supposed to be, I.

More creative like that. Definitely. I run into people all the time down here. Right. That, I mean, Austin's probably a breeding R for it, but like so many creative people. But I I what you just said, what am I supposed to be creating? Or what am I supposed to be entrepreneurial at? Mm-hmm. And I know I feel that way.

Yeah. So it's interesting to hear say that, but yes. Yeah, no, but that was the one thing I would pray for is like, God, just like tell me the thing that I'm supposed, like just show me the one thing that I'm supposed to do. And he was showing me the entire time because when I was working in tech sales and I was experimenting with the carnivore diet and having a lot of success, I would just research it all the time and tell my friends about it and write up nutrition plans and diet plans.

And I was doing that for free on the side, even though I had this great job. So it's very clear, like the thing that you just want to do in your off hours for free because you love it and you're dying to create. That's the thing that you're supposed to be doing, but you don't know how to monetize it. So it's very scary.

And I think that's the benefit of being partnered with someone like Harry is that. When you have someone else in, like in the [00:18:00] cockpit with you, it just makes it, uh, not as intimidating as I would say. Like you're both kind of like pushing together versus on your own. Yeah, I like that. Yeah. But you, when did you know, when, did you know, or were you guys actively like working together at all in New York?

No. No. Were you, because you were in Amsterdam at the time, right? Um, I was in Amsterdam for a little bit and then I came back in about a year after I came back from Amsterdam. I quit and, and, um, decided to move down here. But dude, honestly, it was funny when, when you asked that question to Brett, I had a little bit of time to think.

I, I literally remember the first day that I walked into the office at my old job and I, I really don't wanna spend any time like bashing that, that job. 'cause it was a great experience for me. But I feel like I knew as soon as I walked around that office, I was like, this is really coming at a cost to.

Where I think I can go with my life. Like I, I just, I knew that there was like some level of like this, like it just felt very contained. Um, and I just, I felt like I just had this like, spirit of where I was like, I just [00:19:00] wanna go, like, do something big. And I just remember walking through that office that day being like, kinda like walking through.

Okay. This is the type of job where like you're working in the Prudential tower, you've, you're getting paid, you're gonna be able to get a, a good apartment, lifestyle's gonna be good. And basically like, like kind of like slowly Cape Cod making that, yeah. Yeah. Cape Lincoln Tavern. Yeah. Morning being here in the winter, top of the house.

I'll do that, please. I'm gonna have A-P-T-S-D here. Um, but like slowly making that decision over time and not like, consciously making that choice where I was like, yeah, okay. I accepted the job, but I also, like, I realized that there were trade offs to that. And then I don't think, you know, I, I realized that there were just a lot of like, good things happening.

Over the first few years of my career, but also like a lot of the things that I was talking about where it was like, I, I realized I'm not really tapping into like, that, that drive that I had that ambition that I had to like, go do something big. Yeah. And for me, I think eventually I hit a tip tipping point [00:20:00] where like one day my boss said, stay in your lane.

And I was just like, I think I gotta get outta here. Um, and it was honestly like, it was such an innocent comment at the time, but it just like, it like echoed in my head and I was like, you know, I want to do something, um, that makes an impact. And I feel like, you know, I'm just, uh, I'm doing work that's meaningful in this capacity.

But there was more. And, um, I just started asking the question and started putting my, my antenna up of like, what else is out there? I had a buddy send me an email from a founder down here that was looking to hire, and it was basically like perfectly in line with my ethos and what I stood for. So I was like, all right, I'm gonna apply to this job.

And that kind of got everything going. And from there I was just. Kinda hell bent on figuring out a way to get involved with what was happening in the food system. Realizing that was like a problem that I saw, that I felt like I could spend a lifetime working on, and it still wouldn't get fixed, but I could help kind of like move things in the right direction.

So to me, like those problems that seem like there's like [00:21:00] an endless amount of things to do are exciting because I'm like, I know that I could, even, if I start working on one thing, I can still pivot to something else and still work on the same problem. So to me it was like, okay, like I can make a, a career, a life out of trying to solve this, this one problem.

Um, so yeah, made the moves down here and have just kind of like, there was, as, as soon as you made that move, things just started falling in place a little bit. I mean, I think the, there was some like canary in the coal mine type. Um, indicators where I just felt good about making the transition to Austin.

Like there was, at the time there were a lot of really influential people moving to Austin. Um, at the time the health and wellness scene in Austin was really picking up steam. It already had like, whole Foods had been started here, Ste. All these other CPG brands. Um, a lot of people I really admired in the health and wellness space were down in Austin and I had gotten into contact with a few of 'em.

So for me it was like, if I just get to know these people. I would bet on myself in that [00:22:00] case at least to like figure out something to like apply myself to, and like I had an idea of what I wanted to work on when I got down here and that's changed a good amount. But, um, yeah, it was kind of just like taking some of those indicators that, you know, this industry, it lives in Austin, the people who are working on these problems live in Austin and I just get down there and start tinkering like something will happen.

Yeah. And like that's literally kind of like the foundation starting point for us. Yeah. I gotta tinker. I you have to tinker. Tinker Max. Tinker Max, Inc. Well, I would love to hear your story too about you getting down to Austin because, you know, the, I think we all have three, have fairly similar stories just in terms of like that feeling of knowing that there's kind of more that we wanna pour into, um, whether it's like creatively or just the impact that we want to have.

Um, and it's been so fun watching you. Increase your intensity level on what you're doing with the CrossFit stuff, [00:23:00] because it's a combination of, I think, like almost a, um, prophetic thing. Like where you've kinda, your, this is literally just me third party, but you, your whole life have always had this unique focus that you've been able to apply to certain things.

And seeing you step into the CrossFit realm and be able to focus on that and pour all of your effort into it, it's almost allowed you to like do those creative things that you maybe didn't even realize that you wanted to do, but like starting to post and inspire people the mm-hmm. Go after their own thing.

It's been cool. Yeah. It's been a blast. Yeah. It feels good. Feels right. It's like, uh, it was tinkering for a bit and then it turned into what I think I should be doing. Um, but your question, how did I get down here in the first place? Well, for Rep, for Clarity, I am still in the corporate world. Like I'm still down here working in the job I originally came for, I'm not gonna mention the company, but um.

I do machine learning full-time at a tech company. Was recruited down here, what it, [00:24:00] 21 Summer of 21 down Austin from Boston, from Selfie living in a 10 by 10 foot room on these fourth street in selfie, I dunno. Yeah. But down here for now, coming up on four years. And for a while, truthfully, I was a little bit lost.

Um, Austin, I talk about this with Holt. Matt Holt has a lot too. Austin's a strange city. A great city in the sense, I feel like it makes you find yourself. And the way I would describe that for me at least, is that there's everything that you could want in this city, right? Like you could be working out barefoot, no sh no shoes, no shirt, drinking raw milk on the east side.

Or you could be doing ketamine therapy on, on the south side, or you could be downtown at some rave or you could be, you know, whatever. And there's a lot of distractions. And I think for the first year. I was swayed by a lot of those distractions. Um, ketamine therapy, sorry. No, no. Ketamine therapy. Um, not my thing.[00:25:00]

Not knocking. It, just not my thing. And it wasn't until I found CrossFit that I feel like everything else down here started to censor me as to why I'm here. It, it all clicked and there's a lot behind that. But yeah, that's what I'm doing now and, uh, still working full time. That's my, you were, you were just mentioning that there was like, you had to find an off ramp to work.

Both of you guys were given that story For me, I, I, I got a good piece of advice maybe about a year, year and a half ago from an entrepreneur down here who I used to work for who said to me, he is like, your job as an entrepreneur is to kick ass at work as long as you can. Right. Until you find what it is that you should be working on.

Mm-hmm. Right. And it's like, for me at least, it's actually, it's been very enjoyable to use what I'm working on, that being CrossFit and understanding how to get good at CrossFit and get good at hard things. Actually applying that to my corporate life or my corporate job and seeing that growth from that as well.

And it makes me think it's like maybe, maybe the entrepreneurship route [00:26:00] isn't the calling for me right now, and it's just continuing the path I'm on and enjoying that and doing what I'm doing that's working and leaning to what brought me down here to check those boxes. But I don't know. I feel like this very un uninteresting story, nothing exciting there, but that's where I'm, I think it's very interesting, honestly.

Yeah, I think it's, I think it's mature. I think it's mature because I feel like looking at my, like, step into entrepreneurship, I, I do feel like there was a fair amount of like my own, um, ego ambition driving that. So to like see that there's kind of two lanes that you can play at the same time. Yeah, yeah.

And still find that piece of. Maybe there is something entrepreneurial for you out there, but like almost having the peace, knowing that like you can operate at this pace that you're at now, pour into the CrossFit stuff that's fulfilling you and then Yeah. You know, something's gonna pop up. Yeah. I, so I'll take, I'll, I'll take the tarp off here a little bit and like I'm gonna be more aggressive and talk to you.

I tell you truthfully how I feel. No, a hundred percent. [00:27:00] Harry, you're right. Like, there was a while. Over the past year, I'm like, I need to start something. I need to do something. I need to create something. I need to sell something. But recently I've started really, maybe I don't, like, maybe I am supposed to be in corporate because I look at myself and I look at those around me and I'm not knocking them and I'm like, dude, I've worked my ass off studying the skills I needed to study to get to where I am right now.

And I look around the office and I'm like, dude, just make this your domain, right? Like, why, why do you need to, like, you don't need to go and start. I'm speak, I'm speaking to you guys who are entrepreneurs. Yeah. But I think, you know what I'm saying? Like you don't necessarily need to always, like, that's not the path for everyone.

No. To be a a, a foundational entrepreneurship is what Babson used to call it. And they used to say it's like you can be an entrepreneur within an, an existing company. Mm-hmm. And I'm seeing that path open up for me rather than of course, muse. Right. It can still be there, it can still be a brand, but I feel like for me, what Muses is Muse is like how do you be entrepreneurial in the path that you're already [00:28:00] on?

Mm-hmm. Like how do you find that, that getup every day? Like, what can you find, what can you add to your life that you need that's gonna give you that spark to Sure. Go and start Meat Mafia and noble based brands, or to go into the office every day and crush it and keep climbing and, and, and being creative and thinking and innovating within already an existing culture in bringing.

Whatever it is that you have to that culture that that, that they're missing and take them to a next level. Yeah. It's foundational Entrepreneurship is something I, I think we forget about. Mm-hmm. Think about how many companies are out there that need help. Right? Right. Think about your brand in your, um, your base.

What if, what if we didn't have to change the, the food system from within, but instead you had guys like yourself in other areas of the country or like myself, who are business guys who go into I business guys. It sounds silly. It's a, that's a Brett term. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm gonna roll with it. Business guys who go into Walmart, [00:29:00] who go into Target, who go work for Kelly's Roast beef and Reve.

Right. And somehow find a way. To be entrepreneurial and bring, breaking the food system into what is already existing. Right? Yeah. Hmm. That's such a good point too. Like, because that, that is one of the double-edged swords of social media is because all you see are the most viral clips of successful entrepreneurs.

As a young man, you view that and you're like, and then you put yourself in Austin to top it off, which is such an entrepreneurial content creator esque city. Yeah. And you're like, well, if I don't do these things, then it's, I have to be doing something wrong. Yeah. Versus like, I remember when you gave that, um, you gave that little testimony Yeah.

At our church Thrive. And that my, the theme that I took from that was like, kind of excellence and everything that you do, you were like, from the way I brush my teeth to the way I pick out my clothes, the way I train, to the way I do my job. And it's like, why not just take the pressure off yourself? You love documenting your CrossFit journey.

You love training, you love ai. If you just do all those things really well, but then you also make time to [00:30:00] like disconnect and actually think about your life and the things that you want to do. Yeah. Like, dude, he's, God's gonna show you the right path. Yeah. But it take, I feel like, I feel like you've taken the pressure off yourself a lot too.

A hundred percent. And you're working harder than I've ever seen you work. Thanks for noticing. Yeah. But it's like you're more relaxed at the same time. Yeah, I would agree. I don't know what, I don't know what has changed recently, but I definitely am, I've always been a super, super, um, driven person, like very hard to sit still.

Right. Which is unhealthy. But recently I've remained, I've find, I've found a way to remain super driven, super determined, super motivated, but also just really enjoy sitting on my couch and doing nothing and reflecting. What'd you say, you said in your post the other day or you, you reposted something where it's like, find something or, or create a lifestyle for yourself where you work so hard at something all you want to do afterwards is sit and reflect and relax and.

Recharge Yes. To do it again. Yeah. Which is important. And so it wouldn't have, it's actually a very simp it's, it's a very simple formula, Brett. Right? Yeah. I mean, it's been [00:31:00] laid out for us for, I mean, I was raised Catholic. I went to Thrive down here in a while, and I still, and I still follow a lot of principles that are laid out in, I, I like, think I just live a very solid, um, respectable life that is, is admired not stepping on toes, like not trying not to sin.

Mm-hmm. So on and so forth. The, the formula has been laid out for a while, hasn't it? It's been like, work and then rest. Yes. Work and then rest. Mm-hmm. And I think for, I was work, work, work. Mm. Rest. Mm-hmm. But when you do find that healthy mix of work, rest, work, it's diabolical, it feels so good and it lets you sustain out.

It's dangerous. It lets you sustain, sustain that output too. And when you find what you're supposed to be working on and then resting and then doing it again, it's dangerous. And you say sustain it. Yeah. Yes. Which is hard. Mm-hmm. Well, if you. If you don't have that rest, if you don't prioritize that rest, the same way you prioritize the actual output that you're putting into the things that we're doing, it turns into work, work, work, work, work, crash.

And [00:32:00] then you start to lose that like fervor that you have for the work I went through. Yeah. I went through that a week ago, maybe not beginning of this week. Right? For me, hitting 10,000 followers, just using the, the I the camera on my iPhone was a goal for a while. And I hit that and I had all these ideas of what I was gonna do when I hit 10,000 followers.

And then for whatever reason, I think because I wasn't resting and I was just pedal to the metal till I hit that I, I hit 10 K and I'm like, okay, whatever. I don't even wanna do this anymore. I wasn't even interested. Right. And I don't know. And, and then something snapped again, it was that I rested and re reset, but.

It, it's, it's, it's dangerous in two ways. It's dangerous if you can find that healthy mix. And it's dangerous also that if you don't right, you can burn out and when you burn out, you might miss what's in front of you, what you should be working on. Mm-hmm. I can't tell you how many times in my life, and I've mentioned this to you before, where I've started out on something that I just put so much into it so quickly that it's like within a month I'm like, okay.[00:33:00]

Yeah, sick of it. But that's also though that you were able to do what you needed to do so that when you woke up, you were back and like reinvigorated. And that's something that I have pride for in myself because my, I can, I can let my mind spiral so easily, but I'm getting better at catching it when it's starting to spiral.

Um, and I'm like, dude, the devil knows how to like, push the exact buttons to get you going. Like, the other night I forgot what I was worked up about. And I'm like, dude, you know what? I'm literally just gonna get fucking nine hours of sleep and I guarantee you I won't care at all about this tomorrow. I'm literally just gonna go to bed.

I did that. I felt the best I had felt in months similar to you. Yeah. But it's like knowing how to like, snatch that thought when it pops into your mind and be like, dude, I'm literally just gonna rest. It's one day and one night of sleep can change everything. Yeah. I, I've been working on the, the mental side of things for a life.

I'm sure you've seen a bit of what some of my content, but I, I believe that the mental side of whatever you're doing is probably the, for me, the way I'm built, the most [00:34:00] important. I, I try to refrain from saying it is right. I don't wanna put that on you, but for me, the mental side is bigger than anything else.

Mm-hmm. My, I am my own worst enemy. I'd say by default. I'm prob, I'm definitely a negative thinker, and so I have to work, act like extra hard to capture those negative thoughts, stop them, reframe them, so on and so forth. And I think a lot of my, a lot of what you said about me being, um, calmer, more relaxed, but also being just as driven,

I believe a lot of it's coming from my ability recently to stop negative thoughts. I think they're extreme waste of energy, right? If you're cons, like if you're constantly moving back and forth in your mind, right? By the end of the day when you have to go to the gym, you have to train. When you have to go be with your loved ones, you're gonna have nothing left to give.

Mm-hmm. Because you've just been thinking all day, and then you have to think about your workout or then you have to think about what your fiance needs from you. Or what your kids need from you that night, right? [00:35:00] Mm-hmm. Yeah. Stopping those negative thoughts, eliminating them as much as possible has been a huge win for me.

Mm-hmm. Do you guys have any, uh, like tactics you use to try to stop that or when you're feeling that way, like what you do? Well, I, I just started reading this book, inner Excellence. I think you'd really enjoy it. And one of the first person inner Inner excellence, inner excellence, and one of the first principles they lay out is that you don't need to own every thought that runs through your head because all of them aren't, they're not all yours.

And I, I think that it actually is like biblical in a lot of ways because like in the Bible it talks about like not being anxious over and over and over again. And that, that, to me, I take that as like a, like Philippians four through four, six through seven is literally do not be anxious. That's a command.

So I take that as if we're designed a certain way, we're not designed to be anxious, well. We've or live in a world where, you know, the, those anxious thoughts creep in and then we start to own them. [00:36:00] And then that's how we start to operate. But if we're truly of the thinking that we don't need to own all of our thoughts, we can just be like, okay, I'm starting to feel anxious.

How do I detach myself from owning that thought? And maybe just put a pin in it and you know, like you guys are saying, like, do those things that, you know, kind of like hotwire you out of feeling that way. And I think if you practice that over a long enough period of time, you start to realize like where you're getting tripped up and how you can like back out of that feeling.

But I don't think we're designed to feel, obviously, like we, we feel these things, but I, I don't think we're designed to like, own them and be the, be anxious. That's a good point. Like do you, to an extent maybe. Right. Like, I'm sure cavemen were anxious at night. If they were gonna freeze or a line was gonna come in, but that was probably, uh, far and few between versus the shit we deal with on a daily basis.

Emails, text messages, social [00:37:00] media, like the anxiety is everywhere, right? Yeah. And you think that creeps in? Yeah, I'm influ, I'm 100% influenced by my surroundings. Mm-hmm. Like my anxiety levels, my energy levels are, I notice them like bounce up and down. Yes. Depending on who I'm around and where I am.

That's what I was gonna ask you. Have you noticed a shift? Because, so we were, we all work out at this gym, squash. Yeah. And you have this incredible crew of people who show up and work out with you, Angie being one of them, who literally you couldn't force her to be upset. Um, and then like a crew of other people who, you know, drew all, all those guys.

And you've got this support system around you who's like, I. Whether they're saying anything or not, they're there encouraging you and supporting what you're doing. I, I imagine that that has to play a, a positive impact and kind of like when you feel in those days where it's like, eh, you know. Yeah. I mean, Angie, definitely.

Right? Yeah. Shout out. I get guilty. So I'm, I feel guilty sometimes when I walk in there. I'm, [00:38:00] I'm, I'm being a curmudgeon. Right? Curmudgeon. There's a work for you. Depressed, not depressed, stressed about who knows what that went on and work that day, don't really wanna be working out. And Angie's there smiling like, you ready?

I'm like, oh, all right. Yeah, yeah. We're good to go. But yeah, a hundred percent. Um, and I took that for granted, or I've taken relationships, especially relationships in the gym. 'cause that's where I spend most of my time for granted. And I'm trying to be more democratic, if you will, where it's my, about a year ago, my friend, my friend sent me a screenshot of another friend who sent.

To a group chat of people who are wanting to go to squat or like workout with us. Like, Hey, could we jump into that workout group that Jacob and his friends are in? And my friend sent the text message saying, yes, but here's a few rules. One, don't talk to Jacob for like the first 30 minutes of the workout.

It's not that he doesn't like you, [00:39:00] it's just that he's releasing his anger or whatever for the day, right? And I saw that and I'm like, I got, I need to be more approachable, have more fun, smile more. Mm, be more like Angie in the gym. And it's made a huge difference. And being able to go to the gym or whatever your, uh, press field, Steven Pressfield talks about your territory, right?

Mm-hmm. Like if you're in your territory, if, like, if when Arnold showed up to the gym, right? Mm-hmm. Remember those videos? You smiling, laughing, everyone laughing, cracking jokes. Everyone's dapping each other up, hugging each other, helping out with form. I wasn't curating that. I wasn't helping with that. I was closed off.

And I don't know if it was affecting others as much, but it was definitely affecting me in the sense that I wasn't allowing for what others wanted to give me, what they wanted to give me. I was closed off not talking. But recently, as I've been more receptive to those, that community that I really didn't even know was around me until I opened my eyes more.

Mm. It's, it's been [00:40:00] incredible vibe. Maxing vibe maxing. Yeah. Friend maxing, vibe maxing. That's a lot maxing. Yeah. That's thing for maxing. Yeah. The anxiety, the anxiety piece that you brought up earlier is interesting too, because I'm wondering like there's a, I feel like there's a difference between feeling like you're bearing a lot of weight in this period of your life as a man, and then also just having that anxiety when, what I mean by that is there are certain moments where I'm like, look.

What you're doing there is pressure behind what you're doing, right? It's like all of your finances are tied up in this thing. My livelihood, Dana's livelihood, Harry, Joe Lee, all of our, our employees. Like that's, that's bearing weight. That's a good thing. Versus anxiety for me is like, if I give my first fruits to my phone and then I'm immediately comparing myself or I'm checking like the 37 text messages that I haven't responded to, that's when I start to let myself, I, I feel like that's more so anxiety versus bearing weight.

So I try and parse those two things out. Two different types of anxiety. Two, yeah, two different types of things. And I'm like, for the, for the second one though, [00:41:00] I feel like a lot of that is within our, it's, it's within our control more than we think. Yeah. Where I'm like, well dude, you could sleep with your phone outside of your room so you don't check it or be like, Hey, I have to read scripture and then lift before I check my phone.

Um, I dunno. I feel like a lot of this stuff is in my control. And then I think also failing. I. At Seton Hall when I was playing baseball and getting cut from the team was very important for me because I'd listen to Tony Robbins and Bob Proctor and these guys that would talk so much about positive thinking and like, Hey, you're either, you're brainwashing yourself 24 7 and you're always programming yourself like thousands of times a day.

And I'm like, is this true or is this bullshit? I can't tell. And then I think back to Seton Hall where I'm like, dude, so much of your, your thinking was, you know, fear-based and so worried about like the worst possible thing happening or being perceived as like the bad player on the baseball team. And so for me, I'm like, well, I definitely know that negative thinking doesn't work and I'm having so many iterations of thought every day.

Why would I not try and be stupid, optimistic, and rational? That helps me a lot. I'm like, [00:42:00] dude, I have, you have thousands of reps every day to train that. I like that. I've never heard, I've never really thought about having two different types of anxieties, but it's totally true. Yeah, self brought an anxieties and then.

Natural positive growth anxieties. Mm-hmm. Right. Everything you mentioned with like Dana, um, you know, your relationships, the future of your relationship, future of your business, it's all positive. Yes. Growth oriented. Yes. Anxiety. Right? Or the others is trash. Yeah. Like in the trash anxieties, you can actually control the others.

You can in a sense, like mm-hmm. You know, you don't get engaged. Yeah. You don't get married. You don't start a business. Sure. But then you're not living. Yes. The others should put your phone away. Yeah. I like that. Like when I start to worry about stupid shit that won't matter in three weeks. That's what I'm typically like.

All right. I have to go back to the well and like take Tinker Max and figure something out. Like bearing weight is, Hey, I really wanna make to the CrossFit games, and I, I wanna inspire hundreds of thousands of [00:43:00] people that follow me to like really get healthier and pursue whatever excellence means to them.

Yeah. Like that's bearing weight for you. And then the stupid shit is like you being worried about something that the, the workout details or something like that. Like that's, I feel like that's more so anxiety. Like the smaller things that are fixable really. That's a great example for my walk of life, I think too.

Workout details. If you, if you hold, if you hold, uh, if you hold the fact that everything is gonna work out for your good as a truth, then you'll be willing to ride those down slopes fairly hard because you know that there's something being built up in that struggle and that, you know, you, you or me or anyone checking their phone first thing in the morning, a hundred days in a row, and then you finally have that moment where you're like, why am I feeling anxious?

This isn't how I'm supposed to be feeling. And you come to the realization, okay, I need to kick this. This habit of checking my phone first thing in the morning. Like even though you had a hundred days straight of checking your phone, and that's objectively a bad thing. Like [00:44:00] you still got to the point where it turned out to be a good thing and you like see it for what it is.

Mm-hmm. So I think that like, having that as if that's your default setting is all things are gonna work out for the, for my good. If you know, you're, you hold that true, then I think like yeah, you ultimately end up getting out of a lot of these bad situations and are, are able to learn from 'em. Um, if you keep your, you know, your senses about you.

Mm-hmm. Good senses. Strong senses. Yeah. Do you feel like you've slowed down a good amount? In what sense? Like the way I'm living? The way you're living? Yeah. Like thinking, living. Yes. Just being more present. Yeah. Definitely. Mm-hmm.

It. Yes. For me, and it all starts with having something big to be chasing. Mm-hmm. Something big to be pursuing, I think, for you. Right. You have your family, you're building and you have your business. Right. I think more than two gets a little outta hand. Yeah. Would you agree that other than that you're [00:45:00] probably not doing much of anything.

Right. Those are your two definitely working out. Sure. But that's part of it. Like I'd, I'd say it's part of your business, but yes. Sales selling your business, right? Mm-hmm. Not selling it, but selling in the sense of growth. Mm-hmm. And then building your family. And I think the same goes for you, right? Yeah.

And right now, I, I, mine is fitness, right? Training and my career in went for me. When I can narrow down on one or two big things that I'm pursuing my goal, I do find that I slow down. Hmm. I enjoy life more and be more present. Yeah. Yeah, like taking control of what matters to you is so important. 'cause then you can reorient your whole schedule and the way that you, you know, who you spend time with, the things you say yes to, no, to how you do your work.

I feel like that all operates around those main priorities. And part of why I'm saying that is I've learned a lot, like basically since 2023 when things really started to pick up, my default is to like white knuckle and just like speed up to what the outside world is doing [00:46:00] versus like, yeah, like outside world influencing me versus me influencing the outside world.

So yeah, so like for example, like right now, I. We have two friends that are staying with us. There's a conference this weekend. I wish, no, that was last weekend. You know, planning for a wedding, Harry's planning for a wedding, um, like three different coffee meetings this weekend. I need to get my workout out and I need me, need me to need to work with some, uh, meet with someone after this.

It's like my whole point is like my brand, my natural default is to think about the 50 things I need to do, and then I just speed up and speed up and speed up versus like, dude, literally just slow down. Plan your day out the night before and just like, imagine yourself just like flowing through all of those things and doing those things really well and really intentional.

Yep. Agreed. I, I also find that those, your endeavors, your big goals you're working on tend to make the decisions for you. Yes. Who you hang out with when you hang out with other people. What you say no to, what you say yes to. And then it be, it's, it becomes [00:47:00] also a, uh, a challenge. It's like, is is this wor, is whatever I'm working on worth it to me that I'm gonna say no to this and this and this and this.

Mm-hmm. And, and say yes and bring this into my life. Bring this other stress into my life. So, mm-hmm. To answer your question, I definitely have slowed down. I think it's a lot to do with, I finally found after not having it for a while, what I, what I believe I should be working on. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Can you talk about just your concept of Muse?

Yeah. The muse and how that's helped you over the last few years? It's been a very fun Yeah. Thing to watch. It's truthfully, it's, I'm still trying to figure out what exactly it is, but I think I'm getting there. Um, it's the elusive use. It's, it's, it's kind of hard. It's an interesting part of entrepreneurship where it's very challenging to, um, articulate your idea.

Right, because I, I, maybe not for you guys, but for me at least, I have all these I idea, uh, thoughts and ideas of what I think Muse should be, but I don't wanna make it so complex that it takes [00:48:00] a, an MIT scientist to distill it down to like one sentence, right? Mm-hmm. But at its core mean, it's, it's a way of life, and it's, for me, the biggest challenge all of my life has been staying active, like staying in motion, not active in the sense of working out, but like having something that I'm working towards and staying consistent with it.

Self-doubt, like self-destruction, self-doubt, uh, stagnation resistance as press field from, um, mm-hmm. The war, uh, the war of art calls. It, they're like, they're always close by, right? So for me, muse right now is just, it, it's a, it's a lifestyle that I'm living, a collection of tools and frameworks that I use to stay in motion, to battle depression, to battle anxiety, to battle.

Or to stay fit, right. Whether it's supplements or states of mind, whatever it might be. But eventually, I hope it'll become like a, a sort of, I don't know, [00:49:00] I like to, I like to think like bar stool. Mm-hmm. But for growth mm-hmm. A bar stool for, um, finding your muse. Right. Finding your muse so that whatever it is that you're working on and you wanna pursue and you want to turn into reality, a dream or desire, you can stay on your path to get it done.

Mm-hmm. Whether it's a new pro, a protein supplement you feel like we need, or a new creatine supplement, or whether it's a, a frame of a goal setting, a goal setting frame of mind, or a, uh, anti-depression. Uh, program that you use every day, who knows, right? I think you know where I'm going with it, right?

Like, you can see how I have a lot of ideas, but in, in, in general, it's about turning energy into action. And I truly believe that's sort of like the lifeblood of our world, right? It's like having an idea and how do you bring that idea out into this world, right? And the way I'm using on social media is CrossFit.

I have this vision or idea of me being able to get into a competitive CrossFit space, the CrossFit games, [00:50:00] and, and for my physical ability dominate, right? Maybe not dominate the field, but dominate in a way that I have never dominated or been physically fit. I have this idea of it right? And I'm using my social and I'm using my social media to prove to you that it's, if you live this way or if I live this way, I'm gonna get, if not there damn close to it, and then go and apply this to other areas of my life and prove that I think this way of life can get shit done.

You can create with this way of life. Not some use. So I feel like that's the best explanation that I've given of it recently. It's a great explanation. Thank you. Energy into action, you said? Yeah. That's so powerful. 'cause I think the worst feeling in the world is feeling that energy and just so much resistance towards turning into action.

Dude, that's where I get depressed, man. I've had I percent Brett, like the amount of times I've, how many times have you seen something pop up? You're like, dude, I had that idea two years ago. Mm-hmm. I had that idea last week. Right. Someone did it. [00:51:00] Someone had that idea and did it, you didn't. Right. It's challenging to do.

You know, it, you've been doing it now for 3, 4, 5 years. It's challenging. Look how far you've gone. But look how far yourself to go, right? Mm-hmm. And that can become daunting in itself. You probably have to constantly evolve and change your way of life the way you stay doing. Right. That, that's musicing, that's like, that's a muse life.

Yes. Mm-hmm. And there's no better feeling than actually turning energy into action. Yeah. Matt, it's, it's the most, I think, the most deep. Rooted human emotion. Mm-hmm. Pull something out of you. I mean, it's like create, in a sense, it's like creating a child, right? Like you have, you, you, I mean, can be too many specifics, but like, you create a child, right?

You have, there is something inside of you and you create a, you create another being with it. Well, the same goes for every single thing in our world, but it's, how do you do that? Some people are better than that, than others. I would argue, Elon, Jeff, Bezos, all these people are better or more experienced at it, not because they're better humans or, or at least I don't think so.[00:52:00]

They're more gifted or they're more, or they're smarter. Maybe they're smarter in domains. But put it this way, if you don't mind, I'm gonna continue to ram some thoughts I've had on this. I think we're, I believe that we're all truly blessed with the ability to be incredible at something, right? Like we all have it in us.

There's some sort of gene in us. There's something, there's some fiber in us. It's the key to greatness in some specific endeavor. But the key is you have to keep trying different endeavors. And I think that no matter what path you start down of doing, you will get eventually, hopefully, I believe eventually, to exactly what you're supposed to be doing by way of elimination.

Right? Drake or, or an artist, a singer, a rapper, a a paint, a painter. No one's, no one's ever gonna be Drake, right? No one's ever gonna be Madonna. No one else is gonna be Elvis. No [00:53:00] one else is going to be, uh, da Vinci. However, we all can be Brett Ender. But what is Brett going to be great at it's Brett's job?

It's Brett's responsibility in life to keep musing until he finds what he's supposed to be great at. Hmm. I think we all inherently have that greatness within us. And what stressed, what has stressed me out over the course of my life, probably over the most three years, most recently, is that like I. I didn't freaking know what it is that I'm supposed to be doing.

Right. And I still don't know, but I think for the fir, but for the first time in my life, I believe I'm starting to see or take in the feedback and realize that I'm starting to set down this path that's going to get me to the door that I'm supposed to. Mm. Right. I'm, I'm working and I'm, and I'm reflecting and I'm creating in a way that I'm being rewarded for it.

Right. And it's just keep going down that path. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Tinker, maxing. Tinkering, man. I, and like, the more you tinker, the more you figure out [00:54:00] what you're supposed you're good at, tinkering at what you're not good at. Tinkering at social media is, is a really good echo, is a really good feedback loop, right?

Mm-hmm. How many people do you see on Instagram? And, and I encourage 'em, I hope they keep doing it, whether it's Instagram or social media, that they have thousands of posts, but they have a couple hundred followers. Right. I encourage 'em to keep doing it. Right. But, but the whole idea is that you can get feedback from Instagram or social media or YouTube really quickly, and you, and, and I view that as almost feedback from the universe.

Mm-hmm. Or feedback from God. Right. If you're putting something out there that people are responding to and following you for it and conversing with you for it, you are an idiot to not keep doing it. Right? Mm-hmm. Those are clear signs. Yes. Clear signs and, and, and as crazy as this sounds, why I don't really, I don't wanna say I don't care about hockey anymore, I just don't miss it, [00:55:00] is because I put in 20 years of my life to hockey and I got a lot of good returns.

Right. Got a lot of good returns. I had a great career at Absent. But the effort that I put in for the outcome that I got versus the effort that I've put into CrossFit and social media, I. And the output that I've got, output, I've gotten on that so much higher. Mm. And like, so for me, it's, it's, it's an example or a sign to me.

It's like, Donny, like this is a step closer to what you're supposed to be doing. You tinkered with hockey for a while, you tinkered with AI and ml, while maybe that's still a thing, but now you're finally tinkering with something where it's like, yeah, I'm gonna start showing you what I want you to tinker on X, right?

Mm-hmm. And so that's keep asking me these questions about slowing down in, in, in, in, mm-hmm. Being less stressed. Yeah. Because I, because I, I truly feel that. I'm seeing that. And, and I, I encourage, and I hope, and I think people are starting to see it with [00:56:00] my Instagram page, it's like, go do it, dude. Whatever it is that you wanna start working on or that you feel passionate about, or you feel that you're getting good results on, or you just feel compelled to do it, just do it, man.

Mm. Why not? Mm-hmm. Is there anything about. Your interest in machine learning and actually studying that, like you're, you were more or less self-taught in that regard. Is there anything about that that you've been able to pull things away from and apply it to what you're doing with your training? Like just the way of thinking?

Um, I don't know if like there's anything that comes to mind, but I just feel like those are such unique paths.

Yeah. So I'm self, so I work in ML engineering right now. I'm self-taught in all of my program computer programming. I was, I sat down in my, um, during covid, my five, 10 by 10 foot room in self Boston. Just taught myself everything I needed to know over the [00:57:00] course of a, uh, uh, like a winter during Covid, right?

If you go on my social media, you can see my, I still have my notebook of all that stuff. Um, yeah, I, I believe what I've learned is that I'm actually a really good learner, but I need to figure out, I. Where I am or what domain I'm playing in, how I need to learn my learning changes. Right. For example, if I'm learning something or if I need, if I'm trying to dominate at work, right?

I wanna be on top of everything. I write everything down hand, handwritten, highlighter, so I can like, refer back to it. That's how I learn there with CrossFit. Like I'm learning that, or with, with fitness, it's like it needs to be simple, um, dumb things down. Work on the basics. So yeah. Answer your question, Harry.

It's like, how, how do I learn? Well, is, is, is what I'm taking away from this in applying it elsewhere? And I think that's important. It's like if you don't, if you don't learn how to learn, you don't learn how to learn the basics and then, and then building the basics, it's, [00:58:00] it's hard to go anywhere. Mm-hmm.

Well, maybe not with AI doing everything for us now, but in general, like if anything human. Yeah. But even with ai, you, it's kind of the basics in, in the sense that you're old school, pen to paper. Where, you know me personally. You personally, yeah. But I will, you know, a common, like work, a common workflow I'll, I'll have at, at work right now is if I come out of a meeting, I'll write down what we talked about in the meeting.

Like, let's say it's a, it's a, it's a planning meeting for a problem where an opportunity coming up at work. I'll, I'll go away from the meeting, I'll take down everyone's ideas and then I'll just feed those ideas into GPT. Or I like to use Claude from Anthropic. Um, I feel like it, it Claude from Anthro. I know this is a new, uh, I don't know if you guys talk about AI much or anything on this, on this podcast.

No. This will be the first time. So I like to use Claude from Anthropic. I was telling, uh, Angie this the other day for anything related to creativity or coding seems to be better. [00:59:00] So like, I'll, I'll walk away from a meeting. I will, I will use broad strokes. Like I won't talk about the actual specifics of the business problem.

I don't want to get, I don't want to leak any of the business ideas. Obviously won't use names, but I'll give GPT um. All the feedback from the meeting, all the different points of view, what the problem is, the different points of view, and it's really fun to see the different ideas that it will spit back.

Mm-hmm. Like, yeah, like I'll give it my idea and say, this is my idea, and be like, oh, like of course it will side with you, but then it's like, think about so and so, bring her idea. Here's how you can bring her idea into what you're doing as well. Mm-hmm. That's super interesting. So you're, so you're actually, I never even thought about that from a meeting perspective where it's like you're, you're trying to solve a problem, you're taking notes in all these different inputs, and then you're actually feeding it into one of these platforms and you're having it help give you summarize and then also give you recommendations too.

Yeah. I, I call, I don't know if this term is actually used. I think I've heard it, um, thrown around a bit, but like creating a knowledge base or [01:00:00] creating a learning base, the more you interact with, if you, if you, do you have GPT Pro or do you have any of the pro, like, do you guys use any of the pro models?

Yeah, I use like rock. Yeah, you like rock. 'cause you can do like the uh, uh, the different voices. Don't worry, don't worry about what my history is on there. Shady memes, my prompts, they don't care.

Uh, you don't worry if I research Germanic history or not. Germanic history. Charlemagne. Well, you actually, can I tell you why I like rock? Yeah. Hit me. I asked it. I had a, a question about tax. I have a juice rock. Actually, I had a question about the parent S Corp and the holding company that we were talking about and I fed it into GPT versus Rock and it felt like GPT was giving me the very black and white answer that they were told to give me versus when I answer asked the same question at Grok, it felt like I was talking to an entrepreneur that was actually helping me.

Yeah. Get like the real answer that people tell you off the record. Hmm. So [01:01:00] anyway, I'm gonna check that out. Yeah. And to finish up that point, not only am I using it to like get summaries of meetings and, and get feedback in the meetings, but I'm actually, I. Using GPT as a career coach. So like at the end, like I'm feeding it everything that I'm doing my personal one, right?

Not my work issue. One, I'm feeding it everything that I'm doing. Again, at a high level, not giving it specifics, right? What I'm doing at work, who am I interacting with? Problems, I'm problems. I'm having projects I've worked on that I've done well on what value it's added to the company. And I'm using it as a sort of coach, especially now with like, like summer review periods coming up like that.

It's like, how do I navigate this very, very, very small succession like company here in Austin, Texas? And make sure that I continue to grow in my, in, in my, uh, role. I don't want to take heads. I don't want, I'm not trying to put anyone down, but it's like, I wanna make sure that I'm still being seen. Mm-hmm.

And it's pretty, it's a pretty interesting, uh, it's helpful. Very [01:02:00] helpful. Mm-hmm. How can you use it to navigate it? To Navi, to, to like, as a corporate, as like a career coach. Yeah. If you're someone that's trying to go up the, you know, the ladder of corporate, like how could they potentially leverage it? Or like what, what kind of prompts would you recommend?

Just feed it. Everything that you do. Mm. Feed it, everything that you do. Um, I, I don't like typing, so at the end of every day, I will go on to my, just on my phone and I will high level talk about what I did, meetings I had, who I spoke with, what I did, what I worked on, what, what's struggling, what the company's doing.

So your, your GPT, like, it's like Yeah. Because doesn't creates acknowledge, optimize. Yeah. It, it, it knows you, like it knows you at a core. It knows how you learn. It knows the type of people you interact with. Not exactly. But it gets a sense and there's, it's, it infers it. It think about how many, let's imagine we have a woman named Susie, right?

And you talk about Susie at work. Think about the amount of times GPT has read a book, [01:03:00] listen to a. Whatever. Some sort of book, some sort of script, it saw notes in code, whatever. Talking about a person like Susie. Mm-hmm. Same stereotype. Same or what's the word? Arch? Archetype. Archetype, yeah. Archetype. It knows exactly how to interact.

It knows probably better than you and I and Harry. How to interact with a person like Susie. Wow. What is gonna make Suzy tick? What does Susie wanna see on her desk tomorrow? What does Susie want to see in her email? What does su, how does Susie's emails, or what is, what does she like to see in her emails as far as like quick, easy responses or does she like longer, more detailed, so on and so forth.

So fascinating. 'cause you gotta think of all the stuff it's trained on, right? Mm-hmm. It seen, it's seen comments in people's code that says this fing Suzy lady, I can't stand right. Like, get her off my case, blah, blah, blah. So on Slack messages, so's, when you, when you say something like that, where does your mind go to?

Around just the impact that AI is gonna have on society, like, yep. [01:04:00] Alright. I can think of a thousand different use cases where AI is like shaping, like at work, starting to date somebody and you're just like plugging everything into ai. It's like it's almost a little robotic. Yeah, it is robotic. Very robotic.

Not to get too philosophical, 'cause I feel like we have some, you could definitely go down a rabbit hole there, but just from a pure um, social standpoint, it's gonna dramatically change. I think the value of money and what we know is money. So many jobs are going to be displaced. That where is income gonna come from, right?

Like this?

I don't know. Let's list five. Let's list five industries that could be impacted by AI tomorrow, right? Copywriting, marketing, social media, content creation, maybe even filming as we get, as like drone drones get more advanced and we have the cameras on the drones, theis with drone, so on and so forth. Let's say, let's say.[01:05:00]

50 million people get displaced in the US It's like, where is that income gonna come from? How are people gonna make money? Right? So I know based, based on the company that I come from or where I work, I think banks are starting to rethink what 30 year mortgages look like. 'cause are we gonna, is this are, are we, are we gonna be making the same amount of money in 30 years that we're making, uh, that we're making now, you guys probably will be because you're ahead of the curb and you have a, you, you're, you are already living and operating in a social world, but for 90, I don't know, 90 what 5% of the population, they're not living in a social world.

They're still living in a world where it's like paycheck to paycheck buying, buying food, don't have a house, don't have a home. Right. Don't own hard assets. Where is that income gonna come from? Right. So I think that's the, a very clear change that's gonna take place. Mm-hmm. That we're gonna have to, uh, deal with.

Hate or love him. I think Elon talks about it a lot and he's constantly screaming at the top [01:06:00] of the mountain that we need, like people need to be prepared for this. I mean, dude, the car, I haven't, the, the past five Uber rides I've taken have all been self-driving Uber rides here in Austin. That's wild. I think the last month I've seen and like an influx of these self-driving cars, I trust them more.

Truthfully don't, yeah. Versus versus a 17-year-old dude that's texting and driving. Yeah, a hundred percent. Think about where we're gonna be at in five years. Those things are gonna be everywhere. Like five months. Five months ago there were none of them on the streets and now they're everywhere on in East Austin.

They're everywhere. I know. I think productivity though is still gonna, is just as much. We'll have a lot of off. How about this? I think there's a huge opportunity. You're talking about energy to action. Whoever's listening out there, whoever has an idea for this, I think there's a huge opportunity to teach those people who are gonna be displaced.

Ai, they should be the ones learning how to then implement AI in their lives the quickest and the easiest and the most creative and productive way to make sure that they're being, their, their loss is [01:07:00] being offset by something new. Right? Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's gonna be interesting to see what happens. I think what you were saying about money is super interesting.

Um, but I also, like, I, I hope that it, it helps people do things that they actually want to do. Yeah. You know, like steer people away from job. You heard, job you heard, you heard, uh, entrepreneurs or people in the space talk about that, I think is very common thing. Not, not much, but I mean, I just, I feel like it should take jobs.

Like, you know, driving Uber is great. It's kinda a little way to get paid, but like the fact that, you know, and I, I also feel like it's difficult because there's such a large, and trucking is like the number one I. Profession for people to do who don't have degrees, and like if those, all those jobs get de play displaced, it is a challenge.

But like maybe there's something else that we can steer those people towards. I don't know. But I be more creative. More creative. Yeah. I think EI think every innovation or [01:08:00] renaissance that we've gone through, or, what's the word I'm looking for? Um, revolution, technological revolution that we've gone through.

Maybe I heard Chris Williamson talk about this, or who's he? Do you guys know the, the marketing professor from NYU? Yeah, Scott Galloway. Yeah. I think I heard him talk about this, where he's like, every technological innovation has just given us more and more freedom to be creative and create, and it just creates the next revolution, right?

Yeah. I also like more time. It's given us more time. I'm not betting against the human spirit. Like you, you know, you displace an industry like. It might stink for five, five years. It might be challenging, it might be difficult, but that is usually that compression that needs to happen in order for something else to be created.

So, I don't know. I think these disruptions are all kind of um, difficult at the time, but then it ends up turning into something good. Yeah. It's weeding out the week. Yeah.

You love it though. Hard assets. Ai. Yeah. Bitcoin [01:09:00] hard assets. Sprinkle a little Bitcoin in there. Hard assets. Well, it sounds like the synopsis is start leveraging these tools. Yeah. I'm trying to more, yeah. Get on social media. Get on social, and I think also double down on leadership and relationship building too.

Ooh, absolutely. It's gonna make leadership so much more valuable. Yeah. I like that. You are always, I appreciate you always telling me re over the past few years, like that you're a leader. Lean into that more. So I thank you for that try. I've been trying to You are, you are. It's just like you don't, it's so hard to.

Understand the way, it is almost impossible to fully understand the way that you're perceived by other people. Right. Just like you can judge, like you, you understand things about Harry and myself that we can't see. We can see the same things about that to you and like the presence that you have. And it's been really encouraging for us as friends to see you on the journey that you're on too.

Like every time I see your Instagram content, it just makes me wanna push harder and chase excellence. Dude. Well, it not to kiss each other's asses too much, but like, it goes the same goes for you guys as well, right? Like [01:10:00] it, it's, we come from very similar backgrounds. Mm-hmm. Like, not specifically family backgrounds, but like where we've been over the past 10 to 20 years.

And so it's nice to see that the avenue, what you guys are doing, it's out there. You just gotta Yeah. Double down on it. And the day, truthfully, the, when there, there are days where I feel like shit about my endeavor, whatever I'm on and I do see that what you guys are doing. I'm like, all right, stick with it.

Well, they're making it happen. I have those same feelings every single day, dude. That's what social media doesn't show you. I know. It's good to talk about that though. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I feel like one of the things that I've really appreciate about our friendship since being down here is just it, it's felt like there's just always like that encouraging factor of like, you know, and I think we, I think all three of us have probably realized that we're all kind of just like in no man's lane and kind of just going after something big that maybe we don't even know what we're trying to articulate.

Like with the Mu, with Muse or with like Meat Mafia. It's like, [01:11:00] where is this gonna end up? Where it's just gonna have a turning point where it's like clear what it's supposed to be. But I think through all that, I've just loved like some of those conversations at Picnic where we're just like sitting there chopping it up, like encouraging each other just to like focus on the next day.

Like, I think it's, it's powerful to have friends like that, that, you know, you're just like, I could go a month without seeing Donnie and I know if I see him. Like tomorrow we could grab picnic and just have an unbelievable combo. Yeah. So it's been fun. It's been a blast. Those, those type of, those type of friendships are important.

Mm-hmm. Right. The one like friendships where it's a, you don't, you don't need to hang out all the time. Yeah. But you're still friends. It's almost deeper type of friendships. A better friend. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, I don't need to see you every day. Right. Because, you know, we're both doing our thing thing.

Yeah. That's the mutual respect that I feel like some people don't understand and I think it's, they don't understand it. 'cause they don't, they just don't see it. Right. They don't understand what you're doing on the other end. But especially for guys. Right. Like I, I say to Angie, Angie said like, wait, so [01:12:00] you said to me that day when I went on, when I went on and spoke with Trip on Trip podcast, she's like, wait, so you and Trip have only had like two conversations in person and, but you guys are friends.

I'm like, yeah. Mm-hmm. What's so weird about that? And she's like. You don't text him or talk to him? I'm like, no. When I see him, I see him and like, I don't think for, for like women, that's not a thing. Yeah. Maybe it is. Maybe it's not. It's, I don't think it's, no. They gotta spend like a lot of time together.

Chad? Yeah. Chad's our in-house woman expert. No. Chad. Chad here. Chad laughing.

Yeah. You guys said all of two words to trip the first time we met, and then maybe 10 words we said to it the second time we met. And then we're, we're like having a your best friend. And then, you know what's so funny about that is he was over at our house before you guys record your podcast. And he's just like, he's like, Jacob's, literally like the guy I respect most in town.

You guys have said 10 more to each other.

It [01:13:00] speaks to the male brain. We're just like w. Real recognize his real name. Right. We're drawn to like that leadership that's just quiet and like, and you, you Yeah. Real recognize is real. You know, when someone's actually going after something. When someone, someone's not bags. Yeah. You in a black Gucci bag.

Gci. Yeah. I've known, I've been known to rock. Nice tote every night. Do you do tote on your way to radius? That's my curve balls. I might need to get a grocery bag for a tote grocery bag, but then call it there. Just leather duffle bag only. Yeah. Just go, just go full tote for like three months and then never, never talk about it again.

Never do it again. Throw people off. What does muse mean to you guys? Like, when you've seen me doing all this stuff, what, what has a, what has a muse been? Mm. When you were talking, you said the word pursuit and I think that that's like a core part of it. I think it's a pursuit of that version of yourself.

It's like the chasing the shadow of yourself. That version of yourself that you know you're built design to [01:14:00] step into, but. Have always kind of maybe been, uh, like unable to fully capture it. And so I like, when I think of Muse, I think of, I, I think of press Field a lot. I think of that like, you know, turning Pro moment that like leveling up getting better and better each day so you can like fully capture that image of like who you're supposed to be.

Yeah, I like that. Yeah. That's good. Yeah, like the North Star inspiration that pulls you through the resistance where it's like there's so much shit and resistance that you don't want to do that you have to do. And when you actually have that, that North star, like that focal point or whatever it is, that's just off, that's the, it literally like pulls you towards it.

Yeah. So you can just like, like kind of break through those barriers. Hell yeah. That's the only thing that um, that's like the best productivity hack I've ever been given is like, like find the thing that actually lights you on fire, as cliche as it is. 'cause that's what will allow you to do the shit that you don't want to do, that you need to do.

So it's really good, really simple. Anyway, [01:15:00] RO, just appreciate you so much, man. Thanks for doing the episode. Thanks for having me on. It's three years in the making, dude. I know. It's been a long time coming. Well, dude, it's been only 15 years in the making. Yeah. Should we go to Yama after this? Well, Yama Sushi, I'll call Phelps.

Love you, brother. Thank you man. Yeah, thanks guys. I'll, uh, news.