#400 Brett & Harry: Reflecting on 400 Episodes + Q&A

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This is episode 400 of the Meat Mafia Podcast. I don't think you or myself, when we first started this show, I thought we would get to 400 episodes. Why did you want to do what we were doing so badly in the beginning? Like what was the big driving factor? I was so curious about the problems that we were facing.

Like it really wasn't that mainstream. I viewed the world in a very idealistic way where almost like we can shift the pendulum. In the right direction of get enough people thinking about these problems the same way and talking about them and starting to orient their life around better habits and things that can actually move the needle.

And here we are a few years later and the pendulum has been shifted in a major way, like the national awareness of seed oils and. Processed food additives and regenerative agriculture and factoring pharma. I loved kind of just the grittiness of our show and also the evolution. Like I think there's something really cool about, we had a [00:01:00] North Star that was clearly defined at the beginning and then the show has kinda just taken on a life of its own.

Mm-hmm. Turned into more of our kind of sheer interest and just guessed that we think are cool and want to talk to. Had me mafia stayed in this like very insular, like focused siloed lane, like maybe the show would be further along in terms of like. Downloads and you know, this thing really is a more of a passion project than a money making machine.

Everything amazing that I think we have together and what we're building has stemmed from this, and I don't think that that's ever gonna change.

Sir, think about us starting this show. We're all right. This is episode 400 of the Meat Mafia podcast. Mm-hmm. I need you to go back in time, step into this time machine. We don't really know what we're gonna talk about on this show, but we do wanna tell a little bit of like the origin story of how we got here.

'cause I don't think you or myself, when we first started this show, I thought we would get to 400 episodes. It's unbelievable. As a wise man that we know would say [00:02:00] unbelievable. Unbelievable. Truly. Um, do you wanna tell us, should we, we could go q and a, the lead into Let's do little, the juice has flown a little bit.

Let's do a little q and a. So I threw up on my Instagram story. Anyone who's not following me, I, I personally think I'm a must follow. I don't know what you're doing if you don't follow me. Mafia, meet Mafia, Harry. I gotta come up with a better handle. Um, all right, I'm gonna pull up these questions real quick.

Um, audience, hopefully you're doing something engaging right now, so this doesn't, okay, here we go. Okay. First question is somewhat irrelevant. Are the boys doing tricks on it? Mac for Mac. Mac Paulson. Okay. Scholar, skip. Or actually, are the boys doing tricks on it? I think we might be, if I, I don't even know what that means.

I think 400 episodes of podcast constitutes tricks on it. Mega tricks, yeah. Alright. Red flags in a potential business partner or hire? Carlisle. Diana. Carlisle. Studer. Carlisle [00:03:00] Studer driving shareholder value. Oh, I mean, that's, that's a must Red flags in a business partner or a potential hire. Yes. Mm.

That's such a good question. I, okay. I I If you, if you're not ready, I have a, I have a response. I think the way that we started out where we did something physically challenging as kind of like the bedrock of anything to come afterwards was such a great approach. So I would say just in the vetting process, like you kind of need to see the person in a.

Place of like deep stress. Mm-hmm. Where they're forced to kind of like push beyond their limits. And I don't know how you do that other than kind of what we did, but you and me running and Ironman when we first started out was I just feel like it, it told me immediately that like, you're someone who's never gonna quit.

And that's basically one of the core components. Mm-hmm. Of business. So that's a green flag. Not answering the question at all. But that's the tough thing about the hiring process is that there are a lot of people that can interview really well. It's really [00:04:00] hard to see that person or experience them in adversity unless you know them before the interview.

That's why I think if you can get warm referrals from someone that comes highly recommended, that's a green flag. That's how so many roles get, get created. I would say that's the interesting thing about starting your own thing and hiring on your own for the first time, is that we, there's such been such a polarity for us in like hiring.

People that were just not a fit at all and it like basically blowing up or just like getting so fortunate with a lot of the people. And I think the people, the four people that I think about that have absolutely crushed it, that have been with us for a couple of 'em for over two years, which is like the majority of the tenure of since we've actually started these businesses.

They all had this intrinsic drive and didn't actually do the role before, but they kept just like knocking on the door. And I think that's something that I look for more than anything is like that persistence and that [00:05:00] hunger versus someone that checks the boxes from a resume standpoint. And then there's obviously certain roles where having prior expertise, like a CFO or something like that.

Supply chain management or like media buyer. Yes. It's like you're not gonna find someone off the street to like teach how to media buy. Yes. But there are a lot of roles, man, where if someone just has that higher, that that creative hunger and they're, they're knocking on your door, A lot of times they can be molded, but if they don't have that internal fire and that drive to better themselves, it's really, it could be really tough.

Yeah. I also think too, like hiring learners. Mm-hmm. Like people who are inquisitive and going to be somebody who you say, Hey man, we might need you to like, step into this role. And they're like, oh, I'll figure it out. Yeah. Like, just that I'll figure it out. Mentality is so valuable. Yes. Um, yeah. I do feel like early on it's almost imperative to hire people who maybe are like extreme culture fits, but like, don't have everything else necessarily figured out or Yeah.

Or anything else figured out. Just people who literally just wanna be [00:06:00] there and like fill gaps. Yes. 'cause at the beginning you're, that's basically all you're doing is just trying to fill gaps. Yes. Definitely. Yeah. I think for a lot of people too, I think one of the ways that my mind has changed the last couple years is that.

I think with friends in particular, if you're friends first and business partner second, it can be incredible or it's actually really challenging because you have the context of that friendship. So a lot of times you might not deliver that great feedback, especially if they're like an employee or something like that.

I think, I think business first and then forming a friendship in certain situations can also be really, really good too. Yeah. I think you just have to like underpinning it all. You have to legitimately just care about the person. Yeah. And if you care about someone, you're gonna give 'em the honest feedback and if you don't, you're gonna not.

And I feel like we've learned that the hard way and also like matured through that a lot. Um, definitely. Any other red we didn't, did we give one red flag? I [00:07:00] feel like we only gave green flags. I would say, I would say red flag would just be someone that checks the boxes from a resume standpoint, but might not necessarily have that intrinsic hunger.

Hmm. I think also people that. Whether they're employees or potential business partners that need like a lot upfront where they're like, I need this equity package, I need this type of salary. Oh, mega red flag. Versus just like, Hey, we'll we'll figure it out. Yeah. You know, we've had people that have offered to work for us for free and ask questions later on down the road and just have that faith and wanna show value.

Like when someone's like, Hey, I don't want even want you to, we've had a couple instances where some people would be like, Hey, don't even pay me for like the first 60 to 90 days. Let me just show you how. Almost like a trial. I think that could be really good too. Yeah, a hundred percent. Okay. This is from our buddy Mike Grubbs.

Top three things each of you have learned and implemented in the last 399 episodes. Hmm. I think he's obviously talking about anything. I would assume some of that's like health, business, faith, [00:08:00] um, just podcasting knowledge. What do you think? Yeah, we could spit ball back and forth. I would say that, um. I would say from a podcasting standpoint, um, business standpoint with Noble, just, um, you hear a lot of, like, the, the, the shift in the ether is how cold calling and cold prospecting is dead.

And I think we've learned that knowing how to knock on someone's door the right way is such a valuable skillset. Like the art, we've talked about this before, but the art of a well-crafted personalized DM or a voice message or a video message, that's been one of the biggest unlocks to everything that we've ever done.

Like go after the people that you wanna do business with, build relationships with whatever. Do it the right way. Don't flatter them, don't encroach on them, but if you do it the right way, you'll be shocked at who says yes. Do you have any instances of that, just in the last 3 99 episodes, whether it's, you know, getting a podcast guest, getting a business partner, affiliate [00:09:00] someone on the hook, like.

Just examples of how you've approached that. 'cause I do think like practically and tactically there's a lot of alpha and just knowing how to kind of have that finesse. Mm-hmm. It's like an art and a science, like knowing that you need to be persistent and like, there's kind of like an approach to getting in there, but there's also kinda like that third door mentality of making a little bit more of like an art, I would say.

When, um, when you got Mark Sisson on the podcast, I thought that was, that was really cool for me to see because, you know, mark is, he's the nicest person ever. He's also crushed it and doesn't need to be on social media. Like he's sold Primal Kitchen. He's enjoying life as you should be in that chapter.

You. Saw that he had just started PVA about a year and a half ago with his son, barefoot Shoe Company. They're crushing it. And, um, because of that, he was, he got back into the podcasting circuit, which was awesome for us because we were in the middle of our thing and on our hit list, he was like a top five guest for us.

Since we [00:10:00] started the show. You bought a, you bought a pair of PVA shoes and I forget, you might have tagged him and then dmd him or something like that. Something like that, yeah. And he happened to be in Austin for a, for a podcast circuit. And just those, dude, just those little touches of like you going outta your way, showing respect to him, putting your hard earned dollars behind a product, how much more likely is someone to say yes when you just like, go outta your way and buy and buy a product and ask the right way.

Yeah. I feel like that's actually such a, that might lead into my, um, top three, top three things I've learned to implement, um, which is like the business world is not. It like there is like this transactional nature to it, obviously, but I think people would be surprised at just like if you're not necessarily competitive, but you're looking to support other people's missions and their growth.

Mm. Um, like I was just thinking about this a lot with reaching out to potential, um, sponsorship [00:11:00] opportunities for Noble on other podcasts. I'm like, this is actually so cool. We get to invest into brands or into podcasts that we wanna support that we like mm-hmm. That share similar values and missions.

Like we're actually able to help fuel their business. So you, you're really growing alongside of them. And so I just think like, think about it, thinking about those types of decisions less as like a transaction. Like, Hey, you know, we're going to do three ad reads on this podcast. Mm-hmm. For Noble and being like, Hey, we actually like would consider you someone that we want to do like more things with.

How can we make this more of just like us trading? Um. Time for airwaves. Mm-hmm. Like we can maybe think about how you can connect us to people, we can connect you to people and just things like that and just go a little bit deeper. Definitely. You know? Yeah. I think that's huge. I also think too, like in the CPG space as well, um, things that are seemingly unscalable, but [00:12:00] going really deep with your customers.

Like on Shopify, almost all of your customers have their email address listed and their cell phone number. There are so many examples of just Hawk, I would just hawk Shopify every single day and be like, oh my gosh, this person ordered. That person ordered. All right. Let me send their, you know, let me get their cell phone number and shoot 'em a text message and build a relationship.

And then those people end up becoming your champions and your super users in the space and end up like this, this spider web like effect of just evangelizing your product. Um, because they have a personalized connection to the founder, like I think every day. If you're a founder, you should be making the time to send text messages to a few different customers, like number one, just selflessly thanking them for ordering without any expectation, and then also just getting their honest feedback.

And you just gather all this great information, you build relationships, and it ends up just compounding into something that you can't even really comprehend like a couple years later. Mm. That's so good. That's so good. I think one of the other things too that, that stands out to me, [00:13:00] we've interviewed a lot of really amazing people over the first 399 episodes of the podcast, and we've had the chance to sit down with people who've like gone through some major transformations, whether that be in their personal life, their physical health.

Um, we've had the chance to sit down with people who have had meteoric rises in terms of success. I think about, um, you know, like, um, just the, the quality of guests that we've been able to get on the show has given us an insight into what it actually means to be. Successful. And like, one of the things that I've realized is that, and this is gonna border on being cliche, but it's like once you get to that success point, like there's still a lot of things that these guys struggle with.

Mm-hmm. When, when outside from the outside you'd be like, that person's successful. There's still kind of this wrestling with the spirit. So I think for me, like, and I, I feel like you, you're the same way. It's like really trying to understand and define what success is for [00:14:00] ourself in having a lot of these conversations.

Yes. Um, just like, what is it that we're actually going after when it comes to starting Noble, starting the podcast and having those things answered. Mm-hmm. Just so we know where we're, we're, like what we're trying to accomplish. Like what, what do we actually want to get out of this output that we're putting out there?

Definitely. Yeah. What you're saying reminds me of, um, just knowing what your North Star is when you start. Yes. And it's okay if the North Star deviates, but it's not okay for it to get. For it to disappear entirely. And what I mean by that is that I think there have been a few moments throughout the last three years where we had our North star when we started, which was like, we just wanted to create something that was uniquely our own, because our energy together was amazing.

We had these realizations and theories around health and wellness in our approach to help get people healthier, which is why we started on Twitter and the podcast making $0 and had zero business plan behind it. But we [00:15:00] just knew that if we just kept going and could find really good eyeballs and connect with our audience and our, um, and our listeners, that amazing things would happen and we'd be able to provide for ourselves and our families.

And then that pivoted into, oh, you know, we need to start a marketing agency and help brands grow. And, and we love that so much. And then I think what we realized between 2023 and 2024 is that 90% of how our time was being spent. Was actually kind of shifting away from what that North Star was. And so 2025 has been a big sh shifting those goalposts back to helping create, make people healthier through this podcast, through Noble.

Um, and then with the marketing agency, we absolutely love it. We love servicing our clients, but building a team around us so we're not so operational, we can play to our strengths. Totally. Totally. That's so good. I mean, there's, so, it's, dude, it's so I could spend a whole podcast just on the things that we've learned.

Oh my gosh. Because they're just so, and that's, that's, that's the thing of like going from [00:16:00] an individual contributor at a company to a founder outside of building your relationship with Jesus. I don't think there's anything else that you could do that will teach you more about yourself. Mm. Your fears, your insecurities, your shortcomings, um, all of this stuff.

And my sense is that if you're listening to this. And you're probably gravitating towards some type of a founder's mindset, which means you're probably more creative. You probably have more of a soft skillset. And what you and I have learned is that if you are the talent or you're that creative or that product focused founder, finding the right operator to compliment you that loves to do the stuff that you hate will change your life.

Um, and I wouldn't do anything differently because it's led us exactly to where we are. But this year we found an operator that I think was sent from God, Josh, and it's completely changed our lives more than anything. Oh my gosh. It really goes to show, I, I think like playing team sports, you really have context for an appreciation [00:17:00] for what a true good team looks like.

Mm-hmm. But when we were first starting off, it didn't necessarily feel like a team sport. It felt a lot more like. Uh, like the Iditarod? Yes. Like two huskies just mushing. Like, just trying to get to the end of the, to like get to the finish line. And I think at the end of the day, like, dude, the best thing that you can do is play to your strengths.

And I think it's, it's like, you know, in a lot of ways the best thing that you can do for other people is just continue to lean into the things that you're really good at. Mm-hmm. Like, not try to be, I think we've both probably struggled with this to some extent, but trying to be everything and it's like, uh, yeah, it's, it's manageable.

Like you can, you can do that and you honestly have to do that when you're just starting off. But once you find those one or two pieces, like who are like one or two people who are gonna help, kinda like support in those roles that help you lean into your strengths just a little bit more and really identify your strengths.

Like, I don't know about you, but I feel like when we first started the podcast. [00:18:00] And Noble, I was still like, I don't really know what I'm all that good at. Like, I have a literally like a finance background trying to do marketing stuff and product stuff. And there's things that I, I can acknowledge that I'm like, good at, but I haven't gotten the reps in to be like, yeah, like I, I'm seasoned in this.

Like, I, I can actually apply value, which is like a good and a bad thing, I think. Yeah. Um, but All right, next question. This is another garbage question. Are you ready to race Brad and I in a marathon from my brother? Your younger brother? Reagan. Reagan. I mean, we're gonna smoke 'em. So are you guys gonna do a race?

They're trying to get us to sign up. My calf's fried right now, but I'm still gonna, I could beat him on one leg. I could beat him in a wheelchair if I had to. The Big Brother effect. Oh, too. What marathon do they wanna do? They wanna do, uh, the DC uh, Marine Corps Marathon. Mm. I think it's the 50th anniversary of the Marine Corps Marathon and the 250th anniversary of the Marines.

Mm. So I don't see why I wouldn't go, go down, go out there and beat Reagan in that. I had a realization. [00:19:00] Um, yesterday about endurance sports. I'm trying to think about what, what trigger you hit. It kind of, I was thinking about, was this during our podcast with Jake? Yes. It was during our podcast with Jake yesterday, the escapism.

Jake Thomas. The escapism conversation. The escapism conversation. I, I realized how fast this last three years has gone and time is gonna only get faster. And if there's anyone that's listening to this that's on the precipice of starting something, or maybe you just started something when you're all in on what you're doing, it feels like you blink in quarters and half years and years.

Just go by so quickly. And what I realized is that Ironman, Waco, which started, um, what we're doing now, that was almost four years ago, and there was this period of where I graduated college and I was so disenfranchised with myself and I completely got sober and stopped drinking and just like was in this monk mode mentality of just.

Chasing, chasing something [00:20:00] more, chasing excellence and doing every race that I could. And I'm realizing that that dude, a lot of that was like seven, like four to seven years ago. That wasn't like yesterday anymore. And I'm realizing that I'm, when we're talking about this podcast, even our bio, like, oh, Brett does and Harry, they do like old, you know, they've done ultra endurance things.

I'm like, dude, that was, that was a long time ago. Backspace. Backspace. Seriously. But it was just a, it was just an honest reflection on this ne this feeling of like wanting to actually put myself back in the arena. Because I do feel like as proud as I, as I am at a lot of things that we're doing, and I'm proud of myself in a lot of ways, I feel like there is a part of me that's dulled, um, by pulling myself outta that space too.

That I was gonna ask you a question that actually Yeah. I'll ask right now. Um, I was gonna ask, how have you changed? Like, how have you changed? From the beginning of us starting the podcast back mm-hmm. [00:21:00] March 1st, 2022 till now. And obviously so much has happened in the worlds, like you personally have changed a ton.

Mm-hmm. But I, I was gonna ask that question from like the standpoint of do you wish you still had certain kind of, um, outlooks, pursuits, habits, things that you were doing early on that you've since kind of like drawn away from? It sounds like the answer is yes with the endurance stuff potentially. Yeah.

I would say I'm a, I feel like I'm a more complete and humble version of myself just because I feel like spiritually I have really tried to invest in that as much as possible. And obviously like once you develop your relationship with the Lord, you know, you change forever. I feel like I'm a lot more, I'm a lot more humble.

Um, I don't necessarily feel this need to just like grit and grind away physically to de define myself worth, but I think at the same time. It might be easy to use that as an excuse a little bit, because I do [00:22:00] think that cha obviously, like there's always a conflict between the, the flesh and the spirit.

Um, and going into that, that pain cave, you just teach yourself things that you can't really teach yourself in any other pursuit. There's just such a purity to it. And, um, like even stuff like high rocks or whatever, for example, which is becoming so popular. I think the excuse that I say is, oh, you know, I'm, I'm building a business.

I don't have time to train for that. But I think the, of the, the reality is like, I hate that style of training and I think I'm probably a little bit afraid of, you know, how I would perform or how I would feel doing something like that. Hmm. How about you? Um, yeah, I mean, probably fairly similar. I think, like, I think I looked at the endurance stuff as more of a tool, like a different tool.

Mm-hmm. Uh, or I looked at it more as a tool back then to like. Really make a mega shift mm-hmm. In like how I was approaching life. And I [00:23:00] like, I think similar to you, just felt like I wanted to go all in on some physical pursuit that seemed hard just to kind of give my mind something that felt impossible to go after and just go do it.

And I think it was a tool in that sense. And I think if I were to do something again soon, which I, I think I'm, I'm like feeling like ready to like, go after something and prepare for something. Do it in a way that's more like, I'm not looking for some radical change, but I just wanna, like, yeah. I just wanna get really dialed in on something.

Mm-hmm. Physical. Um, so I think, yeah, I think like pouring into those physical pursuits, like I, I've just kind of gotten into maintenance mode a little bit. Yeah. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. These, these things come in in seasons. Yeah. And we've been kind of in the trenches, which is no excuse, but I mean, I definitely think that the endurance stuff is, is something that I look back on.

I'm like, I, I. I wish I was still running 10 miles around Lady Bird every Monday morning. Yes. Like I was, you know. [00:24:00] Yes. And the beautiful thing about life is that, you know, it takes a gust of wind in the right direction one morning and it could literally five, five, sometimes it's one workout man, and you feel like you've put that old version of yourself behind you and it's just a critical momentum towards the thing that you want.

Um, it's funny being in Austin, I'd say Nick Bear is probably like a top three. Talked about creator personality here, and you hear so many amazing things about him. You also hear these people that talk smack about him, and I'm like, dude, I don't know what there is his talk talk smack about, he's a physical specimen.

Fantastic. Dad built an amazing business, knows the Lord. I remember coming across his content when he was a bodybuilder and he did the Austin Marathon in a four 30 and now he's chasing like a two hour and 40 minute time. And, um, I remember training for like 70 point threes in the first full distance.

Where he was at then versus now, and he just literally never stopped. That's something that I [00:25:00] respect about him. And granted, like, I think that's, honestly, that's what it takes to be successful. Mm-hmm. You, you can't stop. Yeah. Like, and I think what maybe you're realizing and like what we're talking about is like that energy that we had that can't stop energy for those physical pursuits got poured into other buckets and like we've slowed down clearly with that.

Mm-hmm. But we'll get back. Maybe Reagan, maybe, maybe we do the race. It's the whole little marathon. I mean, I feel like God created men man to be like the comeback kid. Oh yeah. That's the beautiful thing. Resilience, redemption, spirit, baby resilience. Oh yeah. All right, next question. Um, kind of a garbage question, kind of not how many pounds of dried mango can you eat?

I wonder who asked that question.

Mike Mangoes Looking for a little free ad read makes me not want to answer. [00:26:00] I will say Mango do, I will say that about mangoes is, it's one of the most divine snacks of all time. It's, I've never not eaten the entire bag. It's, it's like the perfect combo. Sweet S that squishy, fleshy mango taste. It's so good.

It's single. It's just one ingredient, man. Really? It's like a pint. Like you can't open one of those and not just delete the whole thing. A hundred percent. Yeah. The dude, the best foods that God creates are meant to be like enjoyed on their own or with very minimal processing. Mm-hmm. A hundred percent.

And it's been really cool seeing him. Dude. He's crushed it. He's another great example. Like literally decides one day that he wants to start a MA company. You know, gets these brown bags, slaps a slaps, a label on there with a mango emoji and just starts selling it outta the back of his car. And now he's doing over $10,000 a month and has a bunch of huge people that are obsessed with his product.

Like we've seen so many businesses that have just been force of wilt brother. I remember when he, [00:27:00] he pulls up to squash, he opens the truck of his car. He's like, yo, come here. Go, go over there. He's got like a bin, like a bucket full of mangoes. It was, they weren't in bags or anything. He's like, try these.

And then I just started chewing on him. He is like, one of my buddies has this regenerative mango supply and I think I might start selling these. And I was like, that's literally the best mango I've ever had you. A hundred percent should do it. And the fact that his name, his last name sounds like mangoes is unbelievable.

Yeah. It's, but it just, literally what you just said on repeat, like the fact that you're just force of willing dried mangoes is unbelievable. Mm-hmm. And he's, dude, he will crush it. Yes. Like, yes. Mike Mangoes continuing to do mangoes is gonna crush. I think part of the issue with business in 2025 is that we almost disassociate it with zero to one that Peter Thiel wrote.

And we think about all business like SaaS. Mm. And if you're not gonna wipe out your competition, [00:28:00] you shouldn't even start to begin with or disrupt the entire industry. Mm. And we've seen so many, like in Austin alone, there are so many friends and colleagues that we've met that went from like an idea in their head to an unbelievable business over the course of months.

I love what you just said. I love what you could not agree more, right? It's just so eye-opening. I think the thing is like everyone kind of has that aspirational thought of like, if I were to start a business, what would I do? Mm-hmm. And like you feel like you need to invent something new. So it's like if someone came up to you and was like, dude, just start selling dried mangoes.

You'd be like, well that, that sounds crazy. You know, that, like, why would that, that's, that's not viable necessary or whatever. But what you're talking about is like, you can literally make a business outta anything if you have some like surface area, like he was selling to squash. Yeah. He was literally just selling to people who go to squash here in Austin.

And then that's just built momentum. Yeah. And now he's got like an ieg [00:29:00] legit digital presence with people tagging him and stuff all the time. Talking about mangoes, he memes, he MeMed, mangoes into mm-hmm. The ether. It's impressive. And I, I love what you said. I think that more people should just take, it's easier said than done.

'cause I felt the same way on the other side of starting a business. Like I needed some super clear, unique vision that was like, you know, some innovation. Yeah. And I just don't think it's true. All right. Our buddy Peter, Peter Connolly, what specific actions did you take to build good community in Austin?

What specific actions did you take to build?

I've got a response. So I feel like one of the things that you and I both did naturally was just go to the places that we truly, like. We found third places, gym, uh, church track workouts, run clubs, things [00:30:00] that we just liked doing and just like, sounds really dumb, but like you go, you go to places where you really enjoy being and you find the other people who really enjoy being there and odds are you're gonna have a lot in common.

Mm-hmm. I think like one thing that I was trying to do early on was just like be a front collector and find as many people who I vibed with and enjoyed being around. And then I. That's evolved over time and the intensity of some of those friendships and community has gotten stronger. And some people I haven't stayed in, in touch with as well.

But, um, I think good community comes from being super consistent and having a lot of like shared commonalities. Yes. So just like find, find those places and be wicked consistent. Yeah. I found a website the other day that has a list of all of the health and wellness meetups in Austin. Wow. I never heard of it before.

Wow. It shows you every single meetup it is as simple as find the community, some type of interest that you [00:31:00] have, go to the meetup and then actually get contact information. Instagram handles, tech cell phone numbers of people that you meet there and just follow up with them for coffee and then that will snowball and then you'll look back and be like, I've been here for six months.

I can't believe how many friends that I have. Yeah. Yeah. That's the other thing too. I feel like. There's definitely, like when I lived in, uh, when I lived in Amsterdam, I felt like my work was the only place where I really developed, like unique friendships that were like, more than kind of just like, get dinner for a little bit.

Like, I, I don't think I really developed any real relationships outside of that, which is fine. That was kind of my intention. But going back, if I could do it again, I would've gotten just way better at following up. And like, I would go to the gym, I would talk to people. There never got numbers, never followed up.

Mm-hmm. Like if you're not getting numbers, not following up, not making the intentional effort, it's Yeah. Yeah. You're not, you're just not going deep enough. [00:32:00] Definitely. But Peter's a legend. He does that, so he does it so well. Um, all right. Last question on here. We had a lot, dude. All right. So the question was, what questions should Brett and I answer question mark?

And then, uh, this person responded, building faith. So they, they just want us to talk about building faith, what that means. Mm. And uh, I'll give a shout out to who, who said that, but if you haven't, if you have an answer, let it rip. That's such a good question.

Hmm. Do do. Trying to figure out how I wanna unpack this question. Well, to me, faith is, um, I guess if we wanna talk about faith in, in the Lord, in Christianity in general, you know, there's all these amazing apologetic arguments and historical evidence for Christ and the disciples and the [00:33:00] resurrection. You know, you can go down the rabbit hole finding proof for it.

You can go down the rabbit hole and probably find proof against it too, right. Which a lot of people like to do. But at the end of the day, there is still this like chasm between proof and us being able to. Scientifically prove God's existence, you're never gonna get it. It ultimately comes down to faith.

And that's just, it's just a feeling in your heart where it's like you either believe in it and you feel that the Lord is real and that he's intimately connected to you and he cares about you and you're his son or his daughter, um, or you don't feel that. Um, and that, I think it's a matter of like, like what are the things that you're willing to do to cultivate even more faith and more obedience to him?

And I think the biggest thing that I've learned in the last 10 months since we've started this Bible study, the brotherhood, is that, um, discipline for me cultivates obedience to be able to do the things that he wants me to do. So if I wake up late [00:34:00] and I immediately go onto my phone and get hit with anxiety of the work that I need to do, and I'm, and I'm working outside in responding to the world, I.

I don't think that that's being disciplined, and I'm not gonna be obedient to him. I'm gonna do what the flesh wants. Um, but if I can do the unsexy work of getting into scripture and taking notes and actually spending time in prayer and, you know, taking an hour to leave my phone outside my bedroom and just like, pray and be with the Lord, I'm gonna notice him show up a lot more.

And I'm gonna see my faith being built as a byproduct of that. Um, and it's making that commitment every single day. And again, this stuff is, it's so simple, but it's, it's unbelievably profound. And, you know, one of the things that I love that our Bible study does is, is that scripture memory. Like actually taking the time to, I hadn't memorized anything ver, I hadn't memorized anything, anything that was a piece of writing since I was in elementary school, honestly.

Same. And when you're taking the time to memorize these words and these [00:35:00] sentences, you're literally contextualizing what it says. And you're like, oh, okay. Romans 12, two says this. What does that actually mean? Mm-hmm. You know, what is the, what is the renewing of the mind actually mean? And you start to think about it, and then it pops up in your day-to-day life.

Mm. And then you're like, oh, well, instead of checking my phone, I'm actually gonna do some scripture memory. I'm gonna get in the word versus reading this business book, or something like that. And then, you know, maybe you wanna respond negatively in a situation, but then you ask yourself like, alright, well if the Lord is actually in my heart and I'm the tabernacle, like how do I respond in this situation?

Oh, I'm not gonna get pissed and get volatile. I'm actually gonna forgive this person and just let this thing roll off my back. And then all those situations compound and you look back and you're like, oh, Harry's actually a totally different man than he was six months ago. Mm-hmm. So, I don't know. It's a long-winded way of saying that discipline for me creates obedience, which strengthens my faith.

Mm-hmm. I love that. And it also. Just, uh, before we keep going, I just wanna give John who, who asked this question a shout out. John Brogan legend. Um, [00:36:00] yeah, I loved your response. I feel like the, the idea of giving all the apologetics, uh, you know, arguments to me is like relatively unattractive for this like, response.

Like what I think has gotten me to the point where I'm like, just trying to literally live the, live the way that Jesus lived and walk, the walk that Jesus walked is one, just responding. So, you know, when like he's giving his teachings and when he, like, there's a command that, um, scripture is telling us to do respond like.

Be obedient. And I think in that obedient, in that obedience is where God is trying to teach us certain things. 'cause most everything that God is asking us [00:37:00] to do is something that feels uncomfortable to the flesh. Mm-hmm. So whether it's how we respond in relationship to people who are frustrating to us, or you know, those instances where our patience is being tested and we're taught that we're supposed to pray for our enemy or turn the other cheek.

Um, like these are very controversial statements in terms of how we're supposed to deal with adversity. So I think the, the first thing I would say is like, respond with obedience and see what insights you learn through that obedience and go into those situations thinking like, what is God trying to teach me through?

Living his way versus my way. And then I think the second piece outside of just being obedient is like truly understanding the cross and the sacrifice of like, what that signifies and how it actually fully embodies what love really is. And I think once you understand the [00:38:00] substance and the weight of like, the love that Jesus Christ had for humanity, um, it, it makes that obedience a lot easier when you're, you know, you're kind of under, under the theoretical gun of like these real world situations happening to you and you being less reactionary and more living in obedience, living in the spirit.

And I think that stuff becomes easier over time. And as you start to make some of these changes in your life and remove things and commit to a certain way of living, like mm-hmm. The truth is revealed to you? Yes. It's not, it's not initially clear. And I think that, like, it kind of goes back to Genesis where like, we're made in the image of God and we've fallen out of that image.

And, and I think of it almost as like, you know, falling outta the image, then we're constantly being re pixelated back into the fullness that is, you know, uh, like holiness and yeah. So I would say those two things, like react, you need to respond to [00:39:00] what's being said, uh, what's being commanded and then like understanding the weight of, uh, the cross.

And I think those two things, like holding those two things in your mind and then also like practically speaking, get around guys who are also like running and pursuing the Lord in a way that is inspiring to you and is encouraging to you. I think like we just get so much encouragement. I can think of so many instances right now that I was just encouraged to go deeper just through other people's faith.

Yes. So yes. Dude, I think that's so well said. I think what's also given me a lot of confidence and a lot of conviction too, is the fact that there are a lot of questions that I think we wrestle with as humans that we will never answer and we're never meant to answer. Yes. Like the way I had a friend that likened our relationship with the Lord, he basically likened it to, um, [00:40:00] your dog, the way that your dog understands you.

Yeah. Right. Your dog doesn't know who Harry was when you were 12 years old. He doesn't, he or she doesn't know that much about your backstory. He just knows that you, you, Sonny knows that you love her and you're gonna provide for her when you need it. And I think that that's honestly in a lot of ways, similar to our relationship with God, that there's just a lot of things about him or like this, this.

Concept of heaven being indefinite and living forever after our flesh passes away. Like it almost, it almost melts your brain. And I don't, I think all of those questions are gonna be answered after we die. Um, and we should still, we should still have faith. Like I think a lot of people have faith in, you know, you have faith in negativity or things that the world wants or science like.

We all have faith in something, whether we realize it or not. I would rather live a life and choose to believe that I was created and believe in a creator that loved us so much that he sent his own son down [00:41:00] to literally die this brutal death so that you can be forgiven of your sins and all the times that you fall on your face.

And he's gonna love you whether you're a multimillionaire and sell a business, or he is gonna love you if you're homeless and shooting heroin on the street, but you still love him. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Faith is really. It's really like an act of worship, like what you're saying. It's like you have faith in money, government, whatever it is.

And like we're, we're designed to worship. Like we just have this capacity to like, and that's like, I don't know. Another reason why I think I believe in God is like we were designed to hold something above ourselves. Yeah. You know? Yes. Like and um, yeah. I completely agree with what you just said about the existentialism.

Like once you answer the question of like, what is our existence? Like, life is downstream of that. So much goodness in life is downstream of figure. Just [00:42:00] figuring out why we're here. Yeah. And answering the big question, like imagine going your entire life, not just putting a bow on that question. Mm-hmm.

I'm not saying that's why you should believe, but I do think that like at the core of, you know, some of the. Some of the beauty of having faith is that you could then get to live a life that's so defined. There's so much definition to why you're doing things. Mm-hmm. Like it literally gives definition to every single action.

Once you define that existential question of, you know, why are we here? Like, how did it all happen? You can put, you can put answers to that, that, you know, up for debate, obviously. But it's like, I think it gives so much context to your everyday actions and it points every action back towards one thing.

And I think that's like a beautiful thing and it allows you to, to really like, weigh the consequences of how you're living your life and not just kind of floating downstream. Definitely. Um, yeah, man, this, again, this could be a [00:43:00] whole other separate podcast and not to get too long-winded. Like, I, I just find it a hard time when I, when I read scripture that it was, it was penned by just man alone, like.

Show me another piece of writing that just like that you read, where you so viscerally want this thing to not be true. Right. I don't think I've ever read a more challenging, I don't, I've never read anything more challenging in my entire life. Yet the reason why I just continue to have faith is that every time I do what God wants me to do, my life gets better.

Um, or at least my, you know, or my char, my character gets stronger and I grow more confidence in myself and I, and I feel more resilient. I just, I don't think a book that a human would pen would say so many things that are just so contrary to what we want. Yeah. To be true. I don't want to pray for my enemies, dude.

I don't want to put myself last, you know? Yeah, totally. It flips the script. Yeah. But then also [00:44:00] like, there's so much, there's so much truth in character. Mm-hmm. Like what you're saying, it's like. Every single person who we can identify and remember throughout history, who we have some sort of like reverence for, like, you, you can think, wow, that person's really courageous.

Mm-hmm. And it's like, okay, like courage is a, a virtue like that is godly. And I think that there's a number of other of those characteristics, but you don't get those characteristics by acting in disobedience of God. Like, I don't think you necessarily become a courageous person. I, I don't think you can become a courageous person.

I would go as far to say that in the absence of, of God, or in the absence of, at at least a high power, higher power, I'll, I'll like leave room for that. But I think like in Jesus, you have the ultimate form of courage. Like, I mean, dying for all of humanity is checkmate. Yeah. [00:45:00] Like, you're not gonna get better, better than that.

But you know, I think that, you know, he was even looking for a way out. Like there was a lot of humanity too. Crucifixion. Like he was like, God, like if there's any other way, and it's like, no, this is it. Yeah. Um, didn't want any credit for it either. Just, yeah. I think there's a lot of truth in, in those characteristics as like we all kind of, we resonate deeply to our core with those being character characteristics of a person of value because they're willing to hold space for trust.

Like you can trust that somebody who's willing to go to that extent to like die for other people to, you know, treat other people like themselves. That person's gonna be like, gonna be who they say they are and Yes. You know, I think there's a lot of, uh, truth in, in the character. Yeah. So I think at a practical level, get in the word, do what the word [00:46:00] says.

Do that for 30 days, see if your life gets better or not. Or your, your character grows or your conviction grows, or your courage grows. And then to your point, it's like, spend time with guys that are older and more mature than you that have faith. Mm-hmm. And just see what you learn from that. Um, and then make the decision on your own.

Yeah. Yeah. Choose. Um, I know we wanted to circle back to retelling, some reminiscing. We can do like a little reminiscing of the podcast a bit 'cause we got through those questions and I feel like we still have a little bit of time and we've, this will be episode 400 for us and this, I just, I feel like it's, uh, it's also marking the end of a chapter for us where we we're literally layered deep on the all in factor where you and I for the last three years have been, or two, two last two years mm-hmm.

Have been living together. Mm-hmm. Living together, working together, podcasting together. And um, yeah, just like mark's the end of a [00:47:00] chapter, which is pretty cool. Like the timing of episode 400 and literally tomorrow milestone episode. Yeah. Literally tomorrow. Literally tomorrow we're, uh, we're, we're moving out of our, uh, out of our place.

And you're gonna be, you're gonna be moving, uh, to your, to your place with, uh, that you'll be living in with your fiance after you guys get married. And I'll be doing the same thing with, uh, with my fiance as well. And it's actually amazing that that's tomorrow. It's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Like when we started the show, March 20, 22.

Mm-hmm. We were pups, yeah. Just infants, virtual podcasts. Um, I think we recorded like six episodes the first month. All virtual, all with people we had met through Twitter. Mm-hmm. And we had initially started the podcast because I. You and I were writing online under these two anonymous anonymous accounts, Azza and Clemenza.

And then we were like, we want to almost like [00:48:00] hedge against getting de platformed. People are being de platformed on Twitter, but we also wanted like a medium where we could have longer form discussion, build some relationships. I think that was more secondary. Um, but like we just got into it and started doing it and there's just like a turning point where we're like, let's get, I think I was obsessed with getting 50 episodes.

Do you remember that better than I do. Just like get to 50 episodes. Yes. It's because we were, uh, we put together our dream list. Rob Wolf was one of the top guys on our list. We got him, which was what was interesting is we, we got a lot of our dream podcast guests on a lot sooner than we were anticipating because we were deploying that, that really nice cold outreach strategy, which again, it's like we're proof of concept that this stuff works.

And we got Rob on a lot sooner than we were expecting. And so you were like, dude, we need 50 episodes before he comes on. Like if he, if we have 49 episodes, he's not gonna come on. He'll not come on this time. So we, we just ripped it. I [00:49:00] was in my, uh, my apartment in San Diego. You were in your apartment in Austin, Texas.

And we were just peppering Zoom podcasts. Literally anyone that, that we thought could add value to our audience. We were, and we were doing crazy amounts of prep. Crazy amounts of prep. We would have like a note section up, like as we were having the conversation, there was something beautiful about the virtual setup where.

When it was like a two-on-one where you could have research on the left side, on the guest and ask a really good question with that research kind of in your purview. And then we had like a good amount of like back and forth time. Like we would ask a question, that'd be like five, 10 minutes for the guest to answer.

So there's enough space for us to kind of like both get like two, maybe three questions in over the course of the podcast. So it was definitely a totally different style podcast, but there was definitely, there was something fun about those initial innings where it was like, just throw all of our weight into this and see what happens.[00:50:00]

Oh my gosh. What do you think? Um, like why did you want to do what we were doing so badly in the beginning? Like what was the big driving factor? I was just, I was so curious about the problems that. We were facing. Like it really wasn't that mainstream and that obvious, like people were sick and unhealthy.

Mm-hmm. But no one was really talking about it. Mm-hmm. You know, so I just, I don't know. I was like, just curious. And I feel like we were just talking to such cool people that I, I was like, inspired by the types of people that we were able to get connected to. And then it really felt like a game at the beginning where we had just had access to these really interesting people who had done cool stuff that were like, super aligned with us ideologically and had similar passions and beliefs around the food system and the change that they wanted to see.

So, [00:51:00] yeah, I, I kind of felt like we had a role to play. Um, we were the, like the show grew quickly. Mm-hmm. Which I, I don't know. I think, like, looking back, I'm like, the show was really like, I. Not just number of episodes, like people were listening to it, it was kind of surprising. So yeah, I think it was some of that just like surprised by the success of it.

Yeah. But there was a, a deep passion there with like just the regenerative and Yeah. I think I, I, I viewed the world in a very idealistic way. We're almost like we can shift the pendulum in the right direction. Mm-hmm. If we, if we get enough people kind of thinking about these problems the same way and talking about them and starting to orient their life around better habits and things that can actually move the needle.

Yeah. So, and here we are a few years later and the pendulum has been shifted in a, [00:52:00] in a major way, like the national awareness of seed oils and processed food additives and regenerative agriculture and factoring farming. And the raw milk. Raw milk. Do we had McKayla. The raw milk farmer on Joe Pulper. Yeah.

Episode 20. Mm-hmm. Um, Josh Rainer on, I think he might have been the next episode, episode 21, both talking about raw milk. Yeah. And I think at that point, like raw milk was like an underground thing. Like we barely even knew about it. Definitely. Yeah. I remember going to the Austin Farmer's Market for the first time and um, I'd only tried it a couple times in California because it was just easier to get and you could get it at, at Sprouts and Jimbo's and some of these retail stores.

And, uh, we found a farmer's market in Austin, and I remember you trying it for the first time and it was like your eyes went from black and white to seeing color for the first time. I need raw milk. Look at you now. I need raw milk, dude. Then I went from just carrying six gallons at a time. Yeah. Yeah. I mean [00:53:00] the podcast has just been like this exploratory.

That's why I don't get, part of me is like, you know, I could, I. We've seen other shows launch in the time that we've had the podcast that have kind of had that crazy trajectory, or they've been like, associated with some like other media platform and they've just like had resources to dump into the show.

And I've loved kind of just the grittiness of our show and also the evolution. Like I think there's something really cool about, we had a North Star that was clearly defined at the beginning, and then the show has kinda just taken on a life of its own mm-hmm. And turned into more of our kind of shared interest and just guests that we think are cool and want to talk to.

Um, like I, I really do, I like appreciate both, like the fact that, you know, head Meet mafia stayed in this like very insular like focused siloed lane. Like maybe the show would be further along in terms of like downloads and, you know, this thing. Really is a, it's more of a passion project than a money making [00:54:00] machine.

Yeah. So it's like, um, you know, maybe it would be making more money or things like that. But I do think that it's been this playground for us to explore interest without kind of feeling constrained to an agenda. And I think there's something really good about creative pursuits that don't have conditions around them.

Kinda just like, Hey, definitely you're gonna do 400 episodes, but just sit down and have people on that inspire you and make you think, and make you wanna ask questions that you know, maybe don't know the answer to. So, 100%, there's so many amazing reasons. To, to start a show, whether it's, oh my gosh, you know, building relationships, working on your public speaking abilities, um, still working on that.

Yeah. Social, creating social media content, um, you know, building a business that ultimately stems from listening to your audience and, and fostering [00:55:00] community. There's so many, there's so many reasons why you should start a show. It's very easy to put parameters around your success, but this has and always will be the engine to everything we we've done.

And I think there've been periods where it's been the most pure form of creation and excitement and preparation to reflect that. I think there have been periods where it was just like checking the box and just trying to keep, just be able to keep saying that we've done the podcast before, but it's, um, everything amazing that I think we have together and what we're building has stemmed from this.

And I don't think that that's ever gonna change and. I think that as long as we continue to have fun and talk to people that we want to speak to and, you know, lean into each other, I don't know, man, I, I just, I, I always, I always have fun. Even if there, there are definitely days where I don't wanna record.

And then you get that, you know, you're 10 minutes in, you're 15 minutes in, or maybe it's just like one question throughout the show and you have this epiphany moment and you're like, oh, that's why God wanted me to [00:56:00] do this today. Totally. There's always that. There's always that. Totally. Do you think it's something that you'll always do?

I feel like if I stopped podcasting, I would feel like there's a, there's a big piece of me that was missing. Yeah. Yeah. I don't, I, I genuinely, I think when I, when, when I spoke with Adam Curry and just saw how much he enjoyed just podcasting and what it can do for you from a, like, just freedom and lifestyle perspective, and I.

I just love, I love conversation and I love idea sharing. Mm-hmm. And I love the nature of podcasting, how it's just like, just such a raw form of media. Um, like at its truest form, you literally just need a microphone Yeah. And access to an RSS feed, and you can just pump podcasts out Definitely. Out into the world.

So, dude, I, man, I could, I don't, [00:57:00] I, I texted you this the other day. I was like, I just want to be, whether, I don't, it doesn't need to be a number or anything, but I just wanna get to the point where having conversations that are interesting and in drawing really cool guests and people enjoy listening to him.

Like, I, I just, I love the art of conversation and the value that it brings to people. Mm. Like you think about Rogan, the amount of value that Rogan has brought to the world through having the conversation that he, conversations that he has Yeah. Has literally changed the world. Change the world. So shape the direction of elections and knowledge that's widely distributed now.

And at the most root level, it's like the guy loves conversation and he loves being curious and learning about other people. He pumps episodes out, dude. Like he just has that the things that you love, you have the most endurance for. And it doesn't, it doesn't actually feel like work, which is so cliche, but in 2025, like I think there's a world that [00:58:00] exists where like you can genuinely discover the thing that it is that lights you up and people will pay you money to do it too.

A hundred percent. Yeah. We used to say this earlier on, and we haven't said it in a while, but I, I genuinely think that everyone should start a podcast. I feel like the first time we said that we, we said it and like everyone did start a podcast. Mm-hmm. But I think if you're in it for the long game, there's so much alpha from, I'm gonna repeat exactly what you just said, but like learning how to speak, learning how to public speak, meeting people.

Developing yourself like these art forms. 'cause I think podcasts against art and art, these art forms are such a pure form of such just self, um, like developing your own skillset. Like I think the best podcasters are all just high functioning great people who are super interesting. Like they've mastered at least one or two things.

Yeah. And they're all comfortable with, um, long-term time horizons that are over a [00:59:00] decade too. Like, we're not even, I don't even know, we might just barely be at inning one right now, 400 episodes deep. But we live in a world where the hawk to a girl can go nuclear viral or these like tiktoks pop up and they're selling businesses for mil.

You know, they're, they built some product off the back of the, the, of a video that goes viral. And you might be doing something for four years and you might have. 7,000 downloads a month or 8,000 followers on Instagram, and you think that you're a failure and it's like, dude, you might be like one to two strokes away from just completely changing your life.

Totally. Yeah. Those are the types of things that happen over the course of you doing, like starting something. Mm-hmm. That like to talk to a girl starts to a talk like, like a year ago and you and I coin her, you and I've just been gr Yeah. You and I have just been grinding away at this thing and we're, you know, watching our savings [01:00:00] dwindle away, like living together, sharing in this incredible struggle, but also trying to build something meaningful and like, we're just like, dang, like life kind of just comes at you like that.

Like you can literally just hit the jackpot. But I think both of us feel this way. It's like we want. I don't know, like you gotta, like, she didn't really necessarily earn that. She like went crazy viral and then got taken advantage of and now she's like, I dunno, it's not gonna last. Yeah. Whereas I, I feel like we're doing this to last or we are doing it to last.

A lot of these games are meant to take long. So you can, so God can forward you in the iron and you can actually, you can, you can get it and you can keep it. Yes. Right? Yes. And the only way you're gonna keep it is if you experience failure and then actually learn from those failures too. And like 2025. I do, I do believe, man, that it's the, it's the best period of all time and it's also the easiest to compare yourself and feel, feel like a failure too.

Because all you're experiencing in your algorithm is these people that [01:01:00] seem like they're so much further along than you and there's just a lot of fakeness around you. Um, the Hawk Twos of the world, the shit coins, the side income streams. These guys that are claiming that they're starting these marketing agencies on the side and making, you know, 500 KA month.

And then here you are, you're head down and you think you're working on the right thing and you're like, oh, but I'm only doing this. But it's very easy to just get this, like just grabbing all these shiny objects to the side and oh, I've gotten a lot of peace the last, probably the last six months being really content with where we are and being like, Brett is Brett.

Brett is who God created me to be, and I'm gonna lean into my strengths and just trust that over a long-term time horizon, things are gonna be really, really good. Dude. A hundred percent I do. I feel like the, the Michael Phelps photo where he's like mm-hmm. Focused on the finish line is like, perfect example of, so perfect.

You [01:02:00] gotta run your race. Mm-hmm. And don't, don't look at other people as you're going, but. Dude, the digital distractions are so real. Like I feel like the one of the main downsides of social media is that you're like, you don't even realize the amount of ad dollars that are on the other side of every single sponsorship that you see.

Every single thing that you click on then leads to more people like trying to sell you something, trying to tell you that you need something. Uh, making you feel a little bit like less than, like most of the sales tactics are like trying to manipulate you. Yes. You know, it's like, to me, if that's, that's like a, if that's a constant in your life where you're opening up an app and it's just, boom, I'm getting peppered with all these people trying to sell me stuff, and now I'm seeing at the same, at the very same time, I'm seeing all these people who are modeling out a life that clearly is like, you know, trying to personify perfection.

It's like this app is toxic if you're Yes. Looking [01:03:00] at it through that lens. Yes. But if you can look at all the sponsor, like, don't buy anything on the apps. Then just use the apps to create stuff. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That can be positive. Yeah. That's where ruthlessly listening to Founder's podcast outside of reading scripture, has given me a lot of peace of mind because all these guys, David Center talks about it.

It's like their belief came before their ability and they compounded, they had all their eggs in one basket, which is faith, right? Grasping at all these straws and shiny objects, that's actually a lack of faith. It's like, oh, I have to like, almost like get buying these separate insurance policies to make sure that maybe one of them will hit and I'll make this extra 10 or 15 K this month.

Versus the blind faith of like, no, this is the thing that lights me up. I'm gonna go all in on this thing for better or for worse. And then you look back and these guys felt like they were creating art. And next thing you know, someone's buying their company for, you know, a billion dollars and they're setting themselves up for life after Mor mortgaging their house four times.

Like, you know, James [01:04:00] Dyson owns a hundred percent of Dyson vacuums. Was worth $30 billion. I think he mortgaged his house five times, four or five times and took him 5,000 prototypes to create the Dyson vacuum That actually worked. Like it's a good reminder, man, dude. Yeah. I think my relationship with risk, this is maybe going back to one, some of the questions that, uh, we're asked on the Instagram reel, but like my relationship with risk and understanding that faith and risk are completely, I mean, they're so intertwined, but understanding what, what are the real risks of life in 2025?

I mean, yeah, you can ruin yourself financially, but like what's the serious downside of that? Like risk back 200 years ago was way higher than mm-hmm. Risk today. So, I dunno, I just feel like a lot of these things are contrived in our heads in terms of like the outcomes that could happen if you decide to do, go down a certain path.

And I wouldn't change a thing. Uh, and I feel like. [01:05:00] Going through kind of just a, a season of pruning and you know, that that season of, all right, like, I'm preparing you guys for something. Like I, I felt that and I haven't, I honestly love that it hasn't felt rushed. It's felt like we've kind of had to go through every single step and I don't know, I think it's been preparing us for something big.

Mm-hmm. Something exciting. Like I feel more capable of leading than I ever have in my entire life. Definitely. And I think that's a great, that's a great indicator. Forged, forged in the iron. Yeah. You just developed this, um, you moment where just so much trust in what you're doing and then also this like, um, very peaceful detachment from the outcome, which is not an excuse to give up your dreams.

It's more so just like the Lord is gonna do what the Lord wants to do. And, um. If he wants us to, to sell Noble and have a life changing exit, I'm gonna love the Lord. And if he wants it to go this whole thing [01:06:00] to go tits up, I'm still gonna love the Lord too. But if he wants it to go tits up, it's because it's because he, there's something that's a lot greater down the time horizon that you just can't see in that moment too.

Yeah. Yeah. I, I think like at the end of the day, I was thinking about this the other day, where does the core of my identity lie? And the core of my identity lies in following Jesus and trying to bring Jesus to other people by the way that I act. Yeah. So my, my ministry is in everything that I do, running a business, being on this podcast.

And I genuinely hope that I never make trade-offs in my life right now that are, that are putting that identity anywhere other than first. So like one of the reasons why I've continued to do the first appointment on Thursday or [01:07:00] Tuesdays, and one of the reasons why, like, I still pour into those buckets even though it's taking away and probably has harmed, um, harmed like the business, the business at times when, you know, like time could have been spent there.

It's taught me so much about how I'm actually prioritizing or not prioritizing my time. And I feel like in the long game I'm learning a lot through this whole process. And one of the, one of one of those things is like, and this is from like Sacred Pace, that book that you got me. It's just if you're doing the right things, like if you're prioritizing the stuff that really matters, you don't necessarily need to be working until you're getting sick or you know, like, yes, your work means a lot and it means a lot to.

To God, but he also, God also values rest. Mm-hmm. He values relationships. Those things shouldn't come as a sacrifice necessarily for your [01:08:00] work. So I, I just think it's been a lot of like ex exploratory stuff in the soul and in the spirit for us these last few years. And I know it's been really cool seeing you grow alongside, you know, me.

Uh, I personally felt myself grow, but seeing you grow too has been really cool and just proof that this stuff is working. Yes. And the struggle's worth it. I remember a conversation going down, you know, we were driving down you, Esau, and past, uh, um, Pershing, and we're talking about just the, the very real nature of just the financial pain that comes with starting a business for the first time and some of the mistakes that we've made and how they've, you know, kind of kept us in a spot where you and I are both feeling financial pressure and.

I think I said to you like, yeah, the unseen aspect to this is that you can't really quantify our character at this point, but I've seen us change in good ways Yes. And become more solid in our identity. Mm. And that identity [01:09:00] is gonna just be the bedrock of everything. Definitely. So, yeah. Man, at the end of the day, can't conquer death.

I've been, I've read a lot about these conquerors, you know, Napoleon Alexander the Great, um, you know, the list kind of goes on and on and they all die. They all conquered the world. Janis Khan, they all conquered the world. And then it's like Napoleon exiled, like was humiliated, lived on an island by himself.

Uh, Jeniss. Kahan was poisoned. Alexander the great poisoned, like these very just, um. Just menial deaths, even though these guys all conquered the world, like we all are dying. And the chances are there's very few people that actually get remembered, like maybe Elon and a Bezos. It's like, you know, Christ is the ultimate king and in our minds, and, um, at the end of the day, it's like your work matters a lot.

It also doesn't matter as [01:10:00] much as you think, but just get the most, just get the most outta your time, man. Like, we blinked and now we're gonna be moving out. This chapter is gonna be concluding and transitioning into something that's even greater. But we've had so many conversations over the last couple years around like, guys, man, we gotta maximize this time.

Um, because before we know it, it's like we're gonna be married and have kids and stuff like that. And we're kind of like pushing up on that next precipice right now. I really feel like we've squeezed the lemon outta that chapter, and there's just so much more that we want to go on to do. And I just hope that these conversations for you, that's for that, that's listening.

I hope it gives you some type of encouragement to just go after the things that you really want, because both Harry and myself had so many nights prior to starting this where we would just be just yearning to do something bigger and just like, like just squeeze that wash rag a little bit and try and make our, our imprint into the world.

And, um, man, it's just, [01:11:00] it's uh, it's incredible what can happen if you actually just start and commit to it and just get those reps in. Yeah. It's really cool. Thinking back to our conversation, I don't wanna over, uh, I don't know, just thinking about that conversation we had walking around the Charles and just like, just what happens on the other side of taking some big steps and big changes.

Yes. Well, you overuse it because it's a life changing. There's certain moments in your life that are life defining, and that was one of those moments. Yeah. It's interesting that it was highlighted to both of us too, just like the ability to kind of remember that conversation. Yeah. Like what we were talking about.

And it was pretty, pretty clear looking back that we were both kind of going through similar things at a similar time. Mm-hmm. Looking for similar answers. And it's cool that we've just been able to do these last few, last few years together. And I'm excited for the next a hundred episodes. Yeah. It's gonna be good.

Just make more memories dude. And just [01:12:00] do more impactful stuff. And literally just, it, it's so, so many guys that have unbelievable amounts of wisdom, they just say, we just had the other day with, uh, our buddy g It's just like, stay in the fight. Stay, just stay in the fight. If you stay in the fight, you are gonna look back and be amazed at what you can go on to do.

It's, it's so, it's so good. And. It's honestly, I think like one of the themes of our whole relationship from the beginning was the endurance stuff. Yes. I'll never forget on the a hundred K, that feeling of turning the corner and knowing that the race was gonna be done. Um, and also, I'll never forget two laps before turning the corner and thinking to myself, I think Brett might quit.

Mm-hmm. And then the next lap thinking like, I think I might quit and you not quitting. And then me not quitting, and then I was getting that finish line and being like, dang, all [01:13:00] right, so this, this race actually ends. But you know, we stuck it out. I, I'll never, I, dude, that changed how I thought about you and us and what we were doing.

Like in every sense I was like, yes, we're gonna be able to get through everything. I fully believe it. Definitely. That was the most pain I've ever physically And you've. I left my testicles in the woods at mile 45. Dude. And your toenails? Yeah. It's just like my, my parents didn't raise me to quit. I'm not gonna dishonor my parents, you know what I mean?

I just am not gonna, it's a lot of things I'm not good at. I I'm not gonna though. There's a lot of things that you and I are and quitters is not one of them. Yeah. Well, brother, it's been an amazing next hundred episodes. Can't wait to do episode 500 with you. Very grateful for you. Just very appreciative of everything we have.

Grateful for you who's ever listening to this show and, um, just excited. Excited is an understatement, dude. We're in it and, uh, yes, it just feels like we're in the right [01:14:00] spot right now, so, love you, bro. Let's keep going.