#403 Jordan Rubin: Faith, Food, and the Return to Biblical Health

harrison_gray_04-29-2025 01
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[00:00:00] Well, brother, so good having you on the show, man. Great to see. It's to see you guys. Great to be in Austin.

Little surreal. I mean, you guys been a long from remote. This has been a long time coming. It's, yeah, it's good to do this in person. We had, uh, Dr. Jo, Josh Acts one of your good friends. Uh, we hit him virtually. We need to get him in person here soon. But, um, yeah, it's been a long time coming. What a pleasure.

It's, it's fun. Good timing. Yeah, we um, we always love to tell our guests or our listeners how we met, met our guests that are on the podcast. And this is a very cool story because when I was healing from ulcerative colitis, I had an aunt, I don't think I ever told you this, my aunt, she had uc as well. And she was like, you need to read Maker's Diet.

It completely changed my life. And she was off drugs and medication as well. Awesome. So that was the first time I came across your work was just digging into Maker's diet, trying to figure out how I could holistically heal and get off all the biologic drugs. So before you and I had ever met, you'd had a huge impact on me.

And then when Harry and I started Noble, we were [00:01:00] sampling at Central Market. 'cause that was the first retail store we got into. We met Hank Ramsey's son Mason. Who mentioned, he told us about his dad, his connection to you, and then we ended up flying out, um, meeting you in Nashville for at, at the ancient nutrition hq.

And we've built this awesome friendship, gave you all our secrets, all the secret sauce. You gave your own secrets away, I think too. And Mason is here in Austin, uh, playing pickleball, part of ancient nutrition now. So he is That's awesome. A salesperson for ancient nutrition, which is why I'm wearing a rally hat, and I'm told that this is a blue bonnet on the back of my shirt.

A little blue bonnet. Yes. I don't think the video shows that, but yes. So that, that's amazing. I think I'm about to turn 50 and I started, guys, I think I told you this, I was the youngest guy in the room. So started Garden of Life when I was 22 and we'll go back to tell a little bit of the story and now I'm meeting people and they say, I read your book when I was a kid or a teenager, or now I'm a chiropractor because I learned [00:02:00] about this.

Or I was a vegan and I learned about raw dairy and eating meat, et cetera. So it is interesting to be in that, uh, the crosshairs between, Hey, I'm this young, vibrant mission entrepreneur, as I like to call it, versus You're like a sage with some bad dad jokes. Yes. Well, I was rereading your book and. It's very, it's incredibly timeless.

Like I, I feel like going through it. I'm like, I, I don't even know when this was written, but 22 years ago. That's insane. I mean, the advice that you were giving in there is so, it just, it feels like every, the world is caught up to what you were saying back then. It is a huge blessing, and I've been thinking about that because obviously we're talking about consuming content, podcasts, et cetera, and started to think about the people that came before me and where I learned what I learned.

And there's a handful of folks kind of 20, 25, 30 years ago that were just [00:03:00] absolute pioneers. I'm thinking about a gentleman by the name of Dr. William Campbell Douglas. He was a pediatrician. Outside of Atlanta. And he had a practice where he quote unquote prescribed raw milk. But then you think back, and there's a couple of other doctors, Dr.

Crew, who was a co-founder of the Mayo Clinic or the Mayo Foundation, he prescribed raw milk. Mm-hmm. And then there's another MD that wrote a book on the raw milk cure. And so it's interesting, and I'd love to map out sort of the health tree that people come from because they talk about in football, the coaching tree.

Oh, this guy came from Bill Belichick's coaching line, or this one came from Bill Parcells. Or you know, Andy Reed came from this one. But when it comes to health and wellness, it is truly amazing how certain folks, they went against the grain in some cases, literally, and they were a lone voice crying out in the wilderness and Elijah of health.

So for me, I was blessed to [00:04:00] receive information. I tried a ton of things to overcome inflammatory bowel disease. But distilling that information and using the biblical lens to share it was an amazing scenario that I didn't realize when I was 25 years old. So it was, it was a great time and it is awesome to see not only this information becoming more commonplace, but we all are excited about this administration in government that hopefully will follow through on some of their promises.

But the idea that raw milk could be more legalized, the idea that we would've freedom to use peptides and stem cells and all of what's being shared regenerating soils, I mean, it's, it's awesome to see, and I can only imagine how great the future is gonna be if this happens. Mm-hmm. Yeah. We're, we're excited to do this podcast because I remember reading the Maker's Diet for the first time.

This was 2019. I. And that was [00:05:00] when I had that stem of belief of, Hey, maybe I don't need to be on biologic drugs. Maybe my diet and lifestyle measures can help holistically heal me. So you were almost like a lighthouse of hope for me because I'm reading it saying, oh, well if this guy had similar symptoms that actually worse symptoms than I did and did it holistically, you know, 20 years ago, maybe I can do it too.

And when I was rereading Maker's Diet last week in preparation for the podcast, I was just thinking about how far things have come in the alternative health space since I healed in 2019. And I can't even imagine what it was like back in the early two thousands. You're basically just on an island by yourself.

You feel like you're totally alone trying to deal with this disease. Right? Uh, it was very difficult and especially being, uh, the age I was. And I know, I think Brett, you were maybe a little older. I was turning 19 mm-hmm. When I first had symptoms. And so you, I was 21. You look at the embarrassment because if you, if you have a fractured collarbone.

You know, doing some [00:06:00] exciting sporting event, you can share about that. But if your disease involves bloody diarrhea 30 times a day and just all of these disgusting symptoms, and again, you're a teenager, in my case, early twenties, your case, it's, it's really, really tough. And when I was diagnosed, Crohn's disease and ulcerative colitis were hardly discussed.

Most people didn't know a single person who had it. And now, albeit I don't watch TV a lot, I'll stream a few things or watch videos. I can't believe that we're seeing inflammatory bowel disease medication commercials three to five times during an hour long sporting event. And that doesn't even include biological treatments for rheumatoid arthritis or other inflammatory conditions.

It blows my mind that this has happened, which tells me that the incidences of inflammatory bowel disease has increased. Multiple tenfold since I was diagnosed. But here's [00:07:00] the sad part, gentlemen, who's sharing that research? Have you heard a single person talk about the incidents going 20, 30, 50 times more of Crohn's disease and ulcerative colitis?

It has to be. There's, there's no way it isn't. Mm-hmm. That extent, and, you know, the list of diseases that have multiplied are, uh, extending way beyond that. But yeah, it was, I felt very alone. But at the same time, there was enough alternative treatments for me to visit 70 medical experts at the time. I could only imagine how many there are today that are actively treating and supporting that condition.

What I will say is my diet that ultimately helped me get well involved a lot of animal food. And when I was dealing with inflammatory bowel disease, most of the natural and alternative integrative doctors were. Not believing in an animal-based diet was very much [00:08:00] plant-based or some ver version of that.

Even a raw food diet, which I think it can be good for a few days to a week for some people. Mm-hmm. But awful if you have an inflamed intestinal tract. Yes. Whereas today, as I listen to your material, your podcast and others, you're hearing Crohn's disease and ulcerative colitis as one of the top conditions that can be remedied by an animal-based diet.

Mm-hmm. So if you listen to carnivore folks or ke devore, that maybe is top three, which is awesome. It's terrible that it's increased 50 to a hundred or who knows, a thousand times since I was diagnosed. But it's amazing that so many people are finding health and relief with a higher fat animal-based diet.

And for me, I consumed other foods, a lot of raw dairy, cultured dairy, but. Very much a higher protein, higher fat. Even the grains I consumed were sourdough. It was, to your point, Harry, what I learned back then [00:09:00] would be considered very relevant today, which is a blessing because a lot of people change their mind.

We were just talking about a health influencer who wrote a book about one thing and now does a different thing. That's tough, right? Yes. So I'm blessed that what helped me get well is kind of like what, how the Bible describes Jesus the same yesterday, today, and forever. So I do think this real food message is not gonna change.

That's the great, it's great when you are building your, your foundation on something that is the truth. Mm-hmm. Now, was there a period there for when you were struggling with, um, Crohn's, that there, was there a period where you're like, I'm not sure if something's actually wrong with me, or did you just get hit by it and it was very clear like, I have, I have something wrong with me.

I need to address this. You know, Harry, I think a better way to answer that would be, did my 19-year-old brain understand I had an incurable disease? And the answer was no. I, I, it took [00:10:00] a while to get diagnosed, which it used to take longer. And I think Brett, you took some time to get diagnosed too, right?

Definitely. Back then, it took sometimes months or years people would think it was all kinds of other things. Food poisoning. Yeah. And I, I, I remember nothing's wrong with, you take a bunch of antibiotics and I was desperate to go back to college for my sophomore year, but I was 45 pounds lighter. Like, that's serious.

And it only tumbled from there. But I held onto this idea that I am temporarily sick. It's like a cold or a flu. I was this immortal teenager, so I did not think I had some long-term illness until months into my sophomore year. That's when I had the joint pain. That's when I felt like my hip came. Came out of its socket and was dislocated.

I was running high fevers, still losing weight, you know, all the, you know, nausea and diarrhea and all of that bloody. So when I came home at that point in an emergency situation, [00:11:00] that's when I knew something was wrong and I felt like I might not ever go back to my old life. And I also didn't help that my dad, who's a chiropractor and a naturopathic doctor, when he saw me come home, he put me in a bathtub full of ice.

I guess it was the original cold plunge for me, and left the room screaming, oh my God, I don't want my son to die. So that was, that was a tough one to hear. And during the course of the hospitalizations and the hope of this treatment and then the failures and seeing my family around me and feeling like I was causing their pain, it was a lot for a teenager to handle.

And gentlemen, you've been very open about your faith and I've. Been blessed to be able to share as well. But during this time I was on fire for God. Like I went to Florida State University. My whole life in a secular school revolved around God. I was, I call myself an athlete. I [00:12:00] was a cheerleader at Florida State, and I guess my new joke is I was a cheerleader and my daughter plays football, so my daughter is a is is a great flag football player.

So that's my new one. So I was cheering for all these sports. I was in church, I was in a traveling music group. I did bible studies in the morning. We had this huge college ministry. I. I would wear Christian t-shirts. This is before cell phones, guys. I would wear Christian t-shirts because I wanted somebody to ask me what that Bible verse on my shirt meant.

And I always was cognizant of the fact that as I'm wearing this shirt, I'm representing God and I need to be kind to someone. So I go to the student copy center, which again, pe young people like you were like, what are you talking about? That's where we made photocopies for 10 cents of our assignments or whatever.

And I would hang out there. So if someone didn't have a dime, I'd put a dime in there and then they'd say, Hey, thank you. You know, what's that shirt mean? So I was not somebody who was wayward or off track, and [00:13:00] God needed to get ahold of me and get my attention. So for me, when I was sitting there in this hospital bed and the doctor's saying, you'll need medication the rest of your life, you're likely gonna need surgery.

You may be able to have kids, but you'll need to get off this medication. I thought to myself, Hey, Jeremiah 29 11 says that God has good plans for my life. Plans to prosper me, not to harm me, to give me a future and a hope. And here I am at 19 having all these limitations put on me of what I can and can't do.

And it was surreal, but I remember all the doctors, and I'll say lawyers and Indian chiefs, believe it or not, I probably saw some Indian chiefs looking at the wall of their office and I'd see all these credentials and all of these diplomas and I, all I ever wanted was to find someone who had been through it.

Mm-hmm. And I've learned over the last, almost 33 years now that the person I want to help me through something is [00:14:00] not the smartest, the most credentialed. It's the one who has been there, has the scars and has conquered and it's, that's a powerful thing. And that goes for financial issues, relational issues.

Maybe you've got a child who has gone, you know, off the rails. I want somebody who has a testimony and I learned pretty quickly, if you fast forward to me getting well, that that testimony was everything. And back in the day for me, that was a photocopy of my before picture that my mother took when I was at my worst.

And she did not want to take this picture. I'm sitting there with my boxers on and a beard, not because it was fashionable, but because I couldn't stand up long enough to shower and shave. Couldn't afford to lose any blood. 'cause I had a zero iron level. And at the time my mom said, I don't wanna take the picture.

And I said, mom, you need to take this picture because the world's not gonna believe what God's about to do in my life. And I gotta tell you guys, I did not want to get up outta [00:15:00] bed. It took seven steps to go from my bed to this closet, and I was living in my parents' home medically, uh, withdrawn from college, being taken care of like an infant, you know, and I'm in the prime of my life, so to speak.

But I had this sense from reading the Bible or having someone read it to me 'cause my eyesight, because I was emaciated and wasting even the muscles in my eyes didn't work very well. So I couldn't focus. But I had a friend reading the Bible to me. I could read occasionally in Hebrews 11, one, that faith being the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen and then following on without faith, it is impossible to please God.

And faith without works is dead. I'm sitting there with every excuse in the book to not do anything but feel sorry for myself. I, I didn't lose my friends, but I was not the life of the party anymore. I was the death of every conversation. You know, like, Hey, Jordan, you went to Germany. [00:16:00] I was praying for you.

Did you get well? Oh, no, I didn't. And I was then disappointing those folks. Mm. My parents had spent $150,000 at the time out of pocket to try to get me well, because medicine didn't help and I was bedridden, and I, I literally wanted to die. I wasn't suicidal, but I didn't wanna live in this body that was a prison anymore.

Hmm. And so here I am needing self pity and God saying, faith without action is dead. And so I just felt led to stand up in front of that closet and ask my mom to take my picture. And guys, I sit here today wondering how different my life would've been if I didn't respond to God's call for faith. And it's so easy to have faith in hindsight, like mm-hmm.

Now I'm off the streets and I'm gonna talk about when I was broke, or now my marriage is healed, or I'm in a second marriage and I can talk about how bad. The marriage was, [00:17:00] or I almost declared bankruptcy and I made it. But if you can have faith in the valley, it's powerful. And I'm not trying to take any credit for it because the Bible says faith the size of a mustard seed can move a mountain.

This was either the size of a mustard seed or smaller, and I just felt compelled to stand up in front of that closet. And my mom took a picture of me with an old fashioned camera, like there was no digital photograph. This was a negative and a developed picture. And you mentioned earlier, Brett, about hope.

I had that picture on the first. On the front cover of the first book, I wrote Patient Heal Thyself. I shared it with as many people as I could over the years. And so many people have said what you've said, the health information's great. But what really helped me was the hope that I could be well like you.

Whether it was Crohn's Disease or Multiple Sclerosis or a LS or [00:18:00] cancer. And I am here at a conference with 150 employees for ancient nutrition, which is a company Dr. Josh Ax. And I started in 2016 and I spoke this morning and I started off by sharing my motivation. And I think it's good to share here what wakes me up in the morning and what do I think about at night.

And I mentioned a woman named Patty, who was at our last conference as an employee in our healthcare practitioner division. And she died of cancer before this conference. And I knew that this was going to stir up emotions. I always trust God when I speak that I can deliver something more than what my natural abilities allow.

'cause I've done this a long time now and I always pray. I quote Acts one, eight. I know this is becoming a very spiritual podcast, but I'm sure you guys are appreciating, our listeners are used to that. Acts one, eight said, and I, I reword it. I say, and I will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon me, [00:19:00] and I will be your witness in this case in Austin, Texas, and to all the ends of the earth.

My team made some great slides and we had some great info to share, but I wanted to bring something that was supernatural. And so I started talking about Patty, and then I said, but you know what? I'm also motivated by the fact that Roy's here and Roy had congestive heart failure. He, you met him Harry, when you walked in.

That's Roy. I, he, he just told me we worked together for 20 years in three companies. Great guy. And he almost died of a massive heart attack. And Kenny's here, and Kenny had throat cancer, and then Nancy's here and she had breast cancer. And then I talked about Colt, who's, uh. Our CEO and you got to meet him.

Mm-hmm. Former baseball player, my former assistant who rose up in the company, his dad turned 73 today, had throat cancer. His daughter is 10, had, uh, cancer, uh, years ago. And um, so I just rattled those off and I just said, this is [00:20:00] why we're here. And I said that everyone, whether you're in finance or in sales, or you are in operations, you are touching people who reach other people that give them information about probiotics we're deficient in, or vitamins and minerals.

And I rattled that off, but I said the greatest efficiency we have is hope. We are dealers of hope, purveyors of Hope, ambassadors of Hope. And if anyone's listening to this podcast or watching, that's the goal is that somebody can make a decision, a decision of faith. It's always a decision of faith. If you go on a carnivore diet mm-hmm.

You're having faith. That something different is going to work, even though many people have said that's the worst thing you could possibly do, but if you have faith in God and follow his plan, your tomorrow, your next week, next month or next year can be drastically different. I could have died and there were times when I thought I was going to die and wish to die, but if I would've known what was on the other side of that.

Mm. [00:21:00] And I even said it when, when I was in the worst shape, in the worst condition, I remember thinking, God, if you heal me and I can help just one person overcome disease, or better yet avoid it, then this living hell will be worth it. And I met a man who's now passed away named Bud, who gave me that hope after 69 medical experts failed.

He said, Jordan, you can be well if you follow a health plan from the Bible. Mm-hmm. And it resonated with me because I already committed. Whatever helps me get well, I'm gonna do. And guys, I, I did the original stem cell therapy, except when I got it, it was fetal sheep cells from the uk. And man, did that needle hurt when you have no rear end to inject into.

It was bad, but I tried all these different things and I am so blessed that what helped me is reproducible and gives God the glory. And it's not a book with me on the front of it. It's the maker's diet. It's God's plan. And I, I had a chance to [00:22:00] send to you both, uh, yesterday, a new book that I have written in Dr a's co-writing with me called The Biblio Diet.

And we're going after it live long, master metabolism, fight depression, reduce pain, and conquer cancer with the healing secrets of the Bible. And this is 20 some years later, new revelation that is gonna blow some people away. It's going to inspire others and it is gonna make people really angry who either don't believe God or don't understand the human body.

So. Ready to go after it again. But that's, it's been a, been a wild ride and I'm kind of contemplative and emotional today. 'cause when I see people that I've worked with for 10, 20 and some 25 years and sort of just watch as another organization sort of has walked into maturity, I, uh, I really look back and say, this is what matters.

I've got all these people here. Some are three weeks into ancient nutrition and others I've been with for a long time. And I [00:23:00] need to find a way to give them hope and inspire them no matter where they're at. 'cause that's my job. Hmm. Yeah. You touch on, um, you know, the release of the Biblio diet that you and you and Josh have written this book and it's coming out within the next few months.

I think one of the reasons why Harry and I are both so excited for you is I remember. Like you had said when I, when I started healing and I was just all, all in, in that recovery process, it was guys like you, it was Dr. Baker, it was Dane Johnson, a few others. And I just, you know, I piece my favorite parts of all of you guys.

And I remember thinking to myself, if these guys believe that you can heal holistically, I actually can and I can get off these drugs. And what's exciting for us is to see you in 2025 really doing this social media tour and teaching people how they can holistically heal. Where there's so many people that have read the Maker's Diet, and then there's all these people that are in their twenties and thirties that are younger, that might have never heard of you before, that are struggling, that are struggling with something similar.

Um, and this in this information is [00:24:00] just, it needs to be put out into the world. I'm, I'm smiling and laughing because my audience right now is largely a faith-based audience that are probably in their seventies. Mm-hmm. Because I made a decision years ago when we started Ancient Nutrition that we were gonna put all of our efforts behind.

Josh and his social media and his, um, name, image and likeness and, and his platform, which has been awesome. And so I am so far behind. It's hilarious. And so the people that I'm speaking to are, you know, my, my parents' age. But to your point, there are many, many people today that need to hear a message of health and hope.

And one thing that I've appreciated about the two of you and just sort of watching a little bit of your evolution is how you have gone from two young post-college guys to two guys who found truth [00:25:00] in diet, to two guys who found truth in Jesus. Mm-hmm. Or as the Bible says, the way, the truth and the life, and I think you've mentioned it before on your podcast, there's not many people in the space, whether you call it animal-based carnivore, et cetera, who have a biblical worldview.

It's often. A very evolutionary, hundreds of millions of years old. And I don't want to get into old Earth, young Earth, which creation story you believe, but it is few and far between where somebody is talking about God and not the universe. Mm-hmm. But at the same time, there are certain principles that we can all agree with.

Yes. And, uh, so it's exciting to be here. I often feel like, uh, I'm, I'm a fruit on one of these programs. I'm not sure how much juice someone's gonna squeeze out or where I'm gonna go 'cause it's, I've lived a lot of life in almost 50 years. But to be able to share about my faith, it makes the story much [00:26:00] more complete.

Yes. And really that's my hope, is that someone listening is going to latch onto the faith and the hope message. Because listen, there's so much good information on health and wellness. Mm. Could I share a few new insights? Absolutely. But it's so. Easy to find at our fingertips. But what I think people need is that spark, that same faith that caused me to walk those seven steps that's gonna make the difference because it's not easy to just eat steak all the time if that's the diet that's gonna ultimately get you.

Well, it's, it's really not easy for some to get off diet sodas. I've never had one, but I've been blessed not to have one. But people that are addicted to artificial sweeteners or who are addicted to sugar, or who are medicating their stress with junk food, that's a very difficult task. And without having faith or hope of getting well, you're not going to have the impetus to do it.

Yes, I can guarantee you that there are people that are listening to this episode right now that are sick and they're desperate [00:27:00] to heal. And the reason why I say that is that. The most requested DM that I get is people that have heard my Healing Story podcast from three years ago that are still tuning into that because they just don't know where to turn biologic drugs, prednisone their doctors saying they're gonna have this thing for the rest of their life.

So it kind of leads me into my question around, you know, for your story, when you got connected to Bud in San Diego, what were the things that you actually did to heal yourself holistically of Crohn's? Well, I'm gonna give you three books he told me to read and I'm leaving the Bible out. 'cause that was an obvious one, and I remember he told me that the answers in the Bible, but at the time when I was reading the Bible, they were few and far between.

Now there's Milk and Honey mentioned a lot meats mentioned, and then there's dried fruits and some vegetables, but there's no plan Now, years later, oddly enough, and this is in the Biblio diet, God revealed things to me that I have not seen in reading the Bible. 50 or a hundred times or more. But getting back [00:28:00] to these books, so Bud told me to read a book, and it was by that Dr.

William Campbell Douglas, I mentioned at the time it was called The Milk of Human Kindness is not pasteurized. Mm. And it was shortened, as you can imagine. Why to the Milk book. Now I know you had mentioned Ron Schmidt's book. Mm-hmm. Uh, on a, I think a solo cast, Harry, and that's an ex, the Untold Story of Milk.

Story of That's a good book too. The Milk of Human Kindness is not pasteurized. It was mind boggling to me. I remember making yogurt during my illness in San Diego when I went there to get some crazy urine therapy treatment. Man, I tried so many different things, guys. I don't not even gonna list it. I do talk about it in the Make's diet a little bit, and I laugh about the, uh, alien herbalist who had me drink an unlabeled brew and then later said that he visited Mars frequently, which, uh, these days is probably isn't that unique, I guess.

But you could find that anywhere in Austin. Exactly. It sounds like Austin, Texas. Exactly. So. That was an eyeopener because I had gone to make this [00:29:00] yogurt and I accidentally bought raw milk and I, and we're gonna boil it anyway. And I remember my mom's like, oh my gosh, this is raw milk. So we returned it to go get pasteurized milk to make yogurt.

So now I'm finding myself in San Diego drinking the milk that I was afraid of. And in fact, before I even went to San Diego, I, I grew up in South Florida. I found a, a wonderful woman who had goats milk. 'cause you know, you'll find that goat lady. And it's funny, I'm like, what if you're a guy that raises goats milk?

What are you, there's always like a goat goat lady. Yeah. But she was amazing. So that's how I started drinking raw milk. So that was one. The other, uh, was called none of these diseases. And it's a book that's really best described as an understanding of biblical hygiene and how it could have literally prevented the black plague during the middle Ages.

And it talked about God's plan. Everything from, and I'll say this, and I got in some trouble with some people with the Maker's diet, but talks about the dangers of certain types of intercourse that [00:30:00] God didn't intend, if you know what I mean. And I, I ruffled some feathers there, even though I'm repeating something that was from a book and some research.

It talks about, uh, germs not necessarily being airborne, but uh, the way it said it was, germs don't fly, they hitchhike. It talked about how, how to avoid certain contamination. And, uh, there was someone, Dr. Gnats, Emel vice. This is a cool story. I think you've heard of it. 'cause one of you may have talked about the Pasteur versus amp.

It's a, the argument of is it the germ or the terrain? Mm-hmm. And so this gentleman, Dr. Semmelweis was I believe a pathologist and he was noticing that. When babies were born, and this was I think as early as the late 18 hundreds people were, ex doctors were examining cadavers and then delivering babies.

And the infant mortality was horrible. And he suggested that they dip their hands in chlorinated water between [00:31:00] their pathology duties and their obstetrics. And he was reviled. He was humiliated. And he ended up going into a mental institution and dying, uh, because he was such an outcast for suggesting that the modern system of not washing your hands before delivering babies was, was wrong.

So that was number two. And then number three, God's key to health and happiness. And this is also going to ruffle some feathers within the animal based community. But this was a book written by a pastor, I think his name was Elmer Josephson, and he developed stomach cancer. And he asked God how he could be healed and God took him to Leviticus 11.

Deuteronomy 14, what is people call the kosher laws, but they're the biblical dietary laws. He stopped eating pork and shellfish and he was healed. And he went in to describe the physiology and anatomy of pork, shellfish, et cetera. And so those three [00:32:00] books were a huge influence on not only my diet at the time, but what would later become patient, heal self, the maker's, diet, et cetera.

And unfortunately, they may, two of them may be outta print, but there's knowing the internet, tons of good information on them. But I'll never forget the word pictures that I received from all those. And so I stopped consuming pork and shellfish. I wasn't much of a consumer of that. I'm actually Jewish and I'm what you call a Messianic Jew.

So I was Jewish and uh. I believe that Jesus is the Messiah. So whatever I do, I do it differently. Like I'm a Messianic Jew who eats health food in the eighties, and I got lots of stories from, from those times. But um, those three books were amazing. And over the course of 40 days and then later a hundred and was it 120 12 weeks, not even 120 days.

I went from death to life, sickness to Health. I tell this cool story. My [00:33:00] parents visited me from Florida to San Diego after the first 40 days when I went from 118 pounds or so, gained 30 plus pounds. And when my dad came off the plane, he hugged me and he made a comment. He said, there's so much of you to hug.

Mm. Because I left the house in Florida in a wheelchair weighing plus or minus 120 pounds, and I'm six feet tall. So that was pretty awesome. And um, learning. At the time, and you guys will love this 'cause it's all the stuff we talk about now. I was told to buy a motor home and I, I'm coming from South Florida and I never even saw, I don't think I saw a motor home if there was one.

I didn't pay attention. Hmm. And I bought a motor home, 1968 Chevrolet Bunkhouse. And I parked by the beach to breathe in ocean air to walk on the beach to get sun. So I'm earthing, I'm getting sun deep, showing me these deep breathing exercises with proper posture and [00:34:00] really focusing on imagining a healthy future.

And that's what I did for 40 days. Now, I wasn't told that it was illegal to park your motor home by the beach until the police came knocking that first night at 2:00 AM but just par for the course, I guess. But those are the things that I would do. I would go in a sauna, I would go in a, in the ocean when it was cold.

All the things that are popular today. I would take my old rv. And a cooler. I couldn't even afford the kind of RV that has a generator. And there were certain local health food stores that had raw dairy. And unfortunately even back then, think of this guys, in the mid nineties, the medical milk board was fighting the one brand that was legal to be on California shelves.

It was called Stewy at the time. And their parent company was Altadena. I don't even know if that exists anymore. But I would get raw keefer raw cream, I'd buy raw carrot juice and mix raw cream in it to, and I didn't realize that I was utilizing the [00:35:00] fat soluble retinol along with the beta keratin was delicious by the way.

I'd get raw cottage cheese, I'd get grass fed meat. I'm cooking it on a stove in an old motor home. There was this sourdough OT bread that I would get, get some berries to mix with my cottage cheese raw. It had to be unheated honey. So a lot of the, a lot of the good stuff and. It was a fight for my life because I could fit two days worth of food in my cooler, and I would show up at a health food store, and if the milk delivery came, I was happy.

And if it didn't, I was nervous, anxious, and had to drive around because this was my life. I'm seeing myself get better, and my life depended on this food. So at that point, I had no money, barely any friends, no college degree. But I committed at that point. I said one day I'm going to raise and grow the world's healthiest food because now that I feel like I'm gonna get well, I'm gonna have a family.

I need this, they're gonna need this, and the world's gonna need [00:36:00] it. Mm. Because I don't see it getting better with the legalities. And some of that, I guess, was a little prophetic. But, um, that's, that's what I did. Brett and Harry, I consumed real foods and junk food was way out of the question. Uh, I mean, this was the essence of pure food, and I learned that if God wanted milk to be pasteurized, he would've put a pasteurization chamber on the utter of a cow, goat, or a sheep.

Mm-hmm. And, um, I had already read 300 books on health during my illness, and a lot of them, I feel now we're giving some of the wrong information. I guess even a plant-based or macrobiotic diet still has you not consuming junk. So I guess you're gonna learn from everything. But this was, I guess what you'd call a real food diet and the maker's diet.

I made it a little more strict starting out because most of my audience had severe Crohn's or ulcerative colitis or IBS or celiac disease. There was a lot of autoimmune disease, rheumatoid [00:37:00] arthritis, and there were inflammatory diseases like osteoarthritis, diabetes. I wanted it to be strict in the beginning and then get a little easier.

And it did a couple of things. Some people just weren't willing to follow it. And others like your aunt, if they did follow it, they'd get great results. Yes, we, even then, I didn't know what a two dairy was, but I knew that there was something different about goat or sheep milk. So I said, no cow's milk even raw in the beginning and learn later.

I learned in 2006 about a one beta cain in the dangers and the positives of a two, and I would later build a, a two dairy grass fed 10 years too early, which I told you guys, uh, business too early is about as good as a business that's too late. So, yeah, so that, that diet is very similar to one I consume today.

The only difference I would say in a, a huge change, and I, I write about this in the Biblio diet. I've incorporated intermittent fasting into my diet before it was called that. So I started [00:38:00] in my early twenties consuming food in a restricted window. I met a man named Ori Hoff Meckler, who wrote an.

Article, and this is gonna sound horrible after all the faith stuff, I believe for Penthouse Magazine. And later he had a magazine called Mind and Muscle Power that was given away with penthouse. And I did not find out about it through penthouse, I can assure you. But when I read about it, Ori was a, an Israeli exis, Israeli special forces, and he studied ancient Greeks and Hebrews, et cetera, and realized that they didn't consume much during the day because they were working, hunting, fighting, and they ate most of their food when the sun was about to go down.

And I started experimenting with that. I ended up writing for his magazine, becoming friends with him, and he called it The Warrior Diet. And later it was called intermittent fasting. Mm-hmm. And it made a big [00:39:00] difference. And when I'm dealing with someone who has an inflammatory disease or a bowel disease, if they can afford to lose some weight.

Intermittent fasting's amazing. I mean, imagine the idea that you're truly hungry and truth is nine outta 10, if not 99 out of a hundred mornings. I'm not hungry and I mm-hmm. Work out on an empty stomach. I don't need to eat afterwards, most of the time. And so that, that was a big addition. And I've seen it benefit people tremendously over the course of time, no matter what they're dealing with.

So there's been things that have been added along the way, but my diet is strikingly similar to what I followed when I was 19 years old. You all are gonna be kind enough to walk me over to Whole Foods down the street, and I'm gonna buy some of the same things that I've been eating all this time. And it's, I think it works for everybody to an extent.

I do, by the way, believe that a. A [00:40:00] carnivore diet. Now, back in the day, I would have people consume broth only. So I, I didn't have people consume a carnivore diet per se. But I think it can be great for some people, and I'm not gonna argue with others that think they should consume it forever. I was exposed to the Villa Homer Stefansson information almost 30 years ago, and I think that for many people that is a great diet.

If you have to stay on it forever, there's worse, worse things that could happen. Yes. But for the majority, I think transitioning to a diet where protein is at the center and animal food and animal fat is revered, not reviled is the right way to go. Mm-hmm. So I'd love to unpack raw dairy 'cause I feel like you're probably one of the most uniquely qualified people to speak on the topic and.

You talked about real foods, but there's something about raw dairy that has this healing property to it, whether it's the active enzymes or just the complete [00:41:00] balance of macronutrients that you're getting raw dairy's having a moment right now, and I, I am hopeful like you, that states start to realize that we should legalize this stuff.

But can you just talk about raw dairy in the sense of some of the nuts and bolts of what people actually should care about when it comes to safety efficacy, like why it's actually effective for healing? Absolutely. Did you all interview Mark McAfee? I wanna say Yes. Oh yeah. We did a year ago. So I knew Mark when Raw Farm was organic pastures, and I'm going to be the first to say Mark is perhaps the worldwide expert in raw dairy with one huge blind spot.

He is not in agreement with the A two message, and it's probably why he and I haven't communicated as much over the years when I got into dairy myself. I knew that was the truth. And so I'm trying to give credit where credit is due. Mark has been an absolute pioneer in raw dairy. We met, I wanna say, in the year 2000, and [00:42:00] I've lectured with him, been to his farm multiple times, and when it comes to the nuts and bolts of raw dairy and a practitioner, so I'm talking about someone who's selling it today, mark at Raw Farm has done an amazing job.

And then I got a shout out to my Amish brother, Amos Miller. Mm-hmm. Out in Pennsylvania. So I've known Amos and Mark each as long, 20 some years. But the difference is Amos is all in on a two and all these alternative, um, I'll say alternative milks with the goat, the sheep, water, buffalo, water, Buffalo, Buffalo, even camel and donkey.

Um, so just to be clear, I have a ton of information on the practical side of humans and I raise livestock, but I have not. Chosen or had to go out there and sell raw dairy commercially. And that, you know, disqualifies me a slight bit. But I will say this, that consuming raw [00:43:00] dairy products, I believe can be ideal for virtually everyone.

Now, my, uh, close friend, associate, co-author and business partner, Dr. Josh Ax, does not do as well on dairy as I do. I think he even said on your show, when Jordan goes to Whole Foods, he fills his cart with dairy. Now it's partially true, um, because most of the time it's pasteurized dairy. Uh, and I don't get a lot of, certainly don't consume pasteurized milk, um, unless it's cultured.

But I believe whether it's butter or ghee, whether it's, and I still call it keefer. I know kafi is what the cool people call it, but I've been calling it keefer for too long to call it kefi, um, butter If, if you can, uh, a lot of people can tolerate raw dairy. Uh, straight, uh, whether it's a one or a two. Uh, but I believe that there is some dairy product that can benefit everyone, and I simply crave it.

And in fact, I have to sort of check myself because I think if I was left to my own devices, [00:44:00] I would consume only dairy and fruit. So if you gave me thick yogurt and mango and a little bit of honey and vanilla, you could just set me in my corner, throw me an occasional avocado. I love what meat can do for me, but I just, I go nuts over dairy.

Um, I've made more smoothies than probably Starbucks has. So I think that the average person, especially with inflammatory bowel disease, does really well on the fats that are in dairy. Mm-hmm. Some people say that the butyrate that comes from dairy fat does not act like butyrate generated in the gut by microbes.

I, I disagree. And I remember when I was consuming raw cream, I consumed eight ounces a day when I was. A hundred and whatever pounds getting well, and I just felt like it was healing my gut. I think there's something very special if you can find raw dairy and it is labeled as a two or a two slash a two.

Some people cannot tolerate [00:45:00] milk. Now, to this day, if I could, I would drink a gallon of raw dairy straight every day. I don't do very well on straight raw dairy. I do really well on yogurt. I do well on cottage cheese. I do well on cheese. I do well on butter. I do well on ghee, but I don't know if it was the prednisone or the antibiotics or the other medications, IV and oral that I was on, or if, and this is probably it.

When I was growing up, my parents were largely vegetarian and very anti milk, so I consumed soy milk and imitation milks and barely touched dairy. So it could be that I just lost exposure. I have a Jewish background and some of us have. Some level of lactose intolerance. So even if it's a two dairy, I can do better, but if I'm chugging it, I don't feel as well.

So I do well on cultured dairy. And I think many people that have inflammatory bowel disease that have had a blunting of their [00:46:00] small intestine microvilli, which is why you can't digest certain things. These micro hairs in your small intestine connect with the enzymes that allow for you to digest what would be a disaccharide, which is lactose.

And I think some of us don't have that ability, but I feel like almost everybody can tolerate dairy. If you can't tolerate cow's milk. Sheep is amazing. I love water buffalo, as you all know that we raise water buffalo. I think finding water, buffalo goat or sheep milk dairy, when we go to Whole Foods, I'm gonna look for sheep, milk, dairy, even if it's pasteurized.

'cause it's the best you can get in Austin, Texas at Whole Foods, in my opinion. There's some raw cheese. There'll be some, I, I'm gonna get some eggs. And I, I, I used to travel 200 days a year and, uh, our director of education who traveled with me said, you are gonna be on the, like, most wanted list for residents in, and yes, that's where I stay because I can have a kitchen in a big fridge because [00:47:00] I'll crack raw eggs in those coffee cups or those little glass jars.

You know, those garbage cans are so tiny. They're probably like, what is this guy do? There's egg shells. Yeah. In the garbage can. And there's like egg and you don't have anywhere to, I'm in a regular hotel now, so I'm gonna have egg white probably. I can't clean everything up, so I'll get some eggs, I'll rocky style eggs.

I, I've consumed raw eggs since my worst. Situation with Crohn's disease. And I tested positive for multiple parasites, amoeba, histolytica, and otherwise I had the worst case of candida. People had said they'd seen, and yet I consumed raw eggs with my dairy. Mm-hmm. And it made a huge difference. Mostly I consumed the yolk, not the raw white, but eggs I didn't mention are a huge part of my diet.

Like I love eggs. And so for the last almost 30 years, I've consumed probably three to 12 eggs a day. And you guys probably know this, my son who plays college football has consumed as many as 36 egg yolks a day. Wow. And when it comes to eggs, I [00:48:00] prefer Turkey as my favorite. It's not available anywhere.

Goose, duck and chicken. I feel like we're playing a little, uh, nursery game here. But, uh, so we raise chickens, ducks, and turkeys. And, uh, I've studied a lot about the benefits of eggs. And my version goes like this. The reason I like Turkey eggs the best is they have. Uh, I think four times more cholesterol than chicken eggs.

And they're not even bigger. They are awesome. And the yolk itself is almost like Play-Doh. It's crazy. So, and we don't have a lot of turkeys on our farm, but when I get a spotted Turkey egg, I'm all in. So I've, uh, and we have lots of ducks. And before we did, I would buy duck eggs from all over the country.

And the idea with food, especially feeding an athlete, and I would say feeding someone who's recovering from illness, every gram of food matters, right? So if I can get more cholesterol, which is a precursor to anabolic hormones, when someone's wasting away, why [00:49:00] not consume a Turkey egg instead of a chicken egg?

Mm. Uh, I told you guys before, water buffalo meat, I can't even tell you how much more nutritious it is than, than cow. Uh, meat from and sounds like my daughter beef. She's like, dad, is that cow meat or buffalo meat? Um, beef is great. I also told you guys this, I'm partial to bull meat and we'll do another, we should do a program on that.

I don't wanna dis beef because the majority of it does not fall into this category. But in the, in biblical times, when you read about killing the fatted calf, which was the most celebrated meal you could consume, it was likely an intact bull that was probably five or six years old. Mm-hmm. Because the longest lived animals matured later.

And bull meat's incredible. So, uh, and then I think we talked about this, but I saw a documentary on a place in Botswana where a certain lion tribe [00:50:00] consumed only buffalo because they were trapped. It was like a they island and they couldn't swim across this. Major canal. But if they did, there were lion tribes or prides that they're all carnivores.

They're eating antelope and gazelle and other types of deer and smaller animals and warthogs, et cetera. The lions that were on this particular island area in Botswana, it's called the Oka Vango Delta. Hmm. They were 25 to a hundred percent larger and I'm, you're looking at bodybuilding lions. Wow. So they're consuming only buffalo.

They're also probably resistance training 'cause they have to wade in water. So when I was training my son for his freshman year of college football, I put him on an all buffalo diet, meat and dairy only buffalo. He gained 60 pounds in an off season. Oh my gosh. [00:51:00] Geez. And it was mostly muscle. Certainly not all muscle, but so I, I am always a truth seeker and if I can find a cause for an effect, I'm gonna go for it.

And so I always want the best of the best of the best, but when I work with people and coach folks to help, I have to understand the world they live in. And sometimes while good is the enemy of best inaction is the enemy of life. Mm-hmm. I think as a science experiment, we need to put Harry on an all meat and milk, buffalo diet.

We have to check because I think he play the, his fiance first because he might not fit in his tux coming up. Have, we've been joking around about me, me going on a, a diet kick to get to a 300 pounds just to dip my toe in the 300 pound bub. Oh my. But I think they're, your frame could hold it. There are strong forces opposing that, I'm sure.

Yeah. Oh man. So buffalo commonly confused for bison, but they're different. They're different. And they're nutritional properties are different too. Yes. Yeah. Water buffalo. Our amazing [00:52:00] animals in so many ways. There's only 6,000 in America. They're called water buffalo or Asian buffalo. Now these are not Cape Buffalo, but they look almost identical.

So if you see a male water buffalo, they look almost identical. They are related to Cape Buffalo, but they're not gonna kill you if you turn your back on them. But water buffalo are the living tractor of the east. They have very strong feet, they live a long time, they don't have eye problems. And if you're in the livestock business, they don't need to have their calves pulled.

And so you guys have probably heard this before that because of the breeding of livestock for certain traits, they often need assistance birthing. And it's horrible. You have to get a chain and put it on the leg or whatever. You can grab and, and you either have to pull or sometimes, and sometimes you have to have the cow, uh.

The mama cow in some kind of a harness. I've even seen people attach the other end of the chain to a UTV or an A TV. Mm-hmm. I [00:53:00] mean this is the kind of thing, and this goes on regularly, water buffalo, you don't even know they're pregnant half the time. 'cause they always, the term is they're always in good flesh or in good condition.

And I, I'll ask our farm director, Todd, Hey, is so and so pregnant? And he'll be like, I don't think so. And then he is like, oh, so and so had a calf and they look great after they had the baby. You can look at a dairy cow today that produces 40 pounds of milk or 60 and they have no rear end. They can't walk very far, skinny legs.

'cause all the breeding was put into these oversized utters. Hmm. So I think water, buffalo meat is healthier. It's leaner. If you look at it, it's got. This deep red or purple color, like myoglobin, which is, that's the, it's muscle juice. Mm-hmm. And, uh, I've compared it to some of the best meat in the world, like Maui, Newi, venison.

I ordered some and put it side by side. It stacks up to anything. And they're raised in a, I'll say it's a commercial environment, but it's, it's [00:54:00] certainly not, they're certainly not wild. Although our buffalo never touch anything but grass unless we're giving them tree leaves, which they love as well. So it's amazing.

Meat, their milk has more than twice the fat, 50% more calories, more vitamins and minerals in most cases. And they're super easy to care for. And if you're wondering, well, Jordan, I don't raise water buffalo. How do I get them? Well, you could go to one of those online, Amish. Mail order raw dairies like Amos Miller Organic Farm.

Not to be confused with Miller Organic Farm because Miller's a very popular name, Miller and Stoltzfus and a few others in the Amish. Or you can go to Whole Foods or Sprouts or even grocery stores and get the brand bof. I'm sure you all have seen that. They have Oh yeah. Various cheeses. I cheese, they're, they come from Columbia, the country.

Yeah. And I talked to the, their farmers. Amazing. They have a herd of 7,000 water buffalo, and it is not raw, but it's [00:55:00] super delicious. Hmm. And when you go outta the country to get mozzarella, especially in Italy, it it is from water buffalo. Hmm. That is by law. So I think water buffalo should replace cows.

There's only 6,000 in America and I have 400 of them. And I think ducks should replace chickens for a lot of reasons. Mm-hmm. Do you think a lot of that is because just the commercialization of some of these other breeds and. Um, like we've basically diluted the genetics down to like two or three and, um, we have these practices that have industrialized, like all of these kind of like big animal food groups, cows, chickens, et cetera.

That is likely a lot of it and it's certainly representative of the longevity. But I also raise Indian cattle or boss Indicus. It's the progenitor or sort of the fathers of the Brahman cattle. So if you go right here, there's a lot of Brahma in Texas and Florida where, you know, the floppy ears and the humps.

Hmm. Those are all a two dairy producing because they were a different species than [00:56:00] the Chick-fil-A cow or the Angus, which every everybody knows Angus and they know the Chick-fil-A cow, which is a Holstein or a Holstein Friesian. But you're exactly right, they were all bred for something. So think of the Angus is bred to produce prime and choice beef and to mature very quickly.

Holstein dairy, the black and white cow in America, same thing. They wanna reproduce very quickly 'cause you can't produce milk until you have an offspring. So they want to get the animals bred at 14 months and then they're having a baby nine months later and then they're producing milk at 23 months of age.

And then about two years later they are out to pasture because they can't keep up with the demand. But, uh, so I, I think Harry, one of the reasons that I looked for some of these exotic breeds of livestock and I've lost a lot 'cause I would bring in these animals that came from zoos or animal parks or breeders that would, [00:57:00] they would baby them because they're so expensive and they wouldn't last in a normal environment.

But we found water buffalo to be excellent. The yak didn't do as well. Um, so we are yak list at the moment. They, after almost 10 years, we couldn't get 'em to reproduce anymore. But water buffalo have done great in season, outta season, and. They have a lot of benefits in part because of what you said they haven't been tampered with.

And it's really more selectively bred. It's not, you could call it hybridized, but they're not genetically modified. You just find an animal that has no horns and you breed to another animal that has no horns, and you're gonna get some genetic, uh, reproducibility, so to speak. Hmm. And, uh, one thing that's interesting about the way we farm, and, and I, I'm gonna be very clear, we don't do it commercially.

So we're blessed to be able to do it more for research, for soil building. So if I were to compare to Gabe Brown or Will [00:58:00] Harris, or you know, some of the others, Joel Ton, it's easy for me to say we do things differently than anybody else. But all of those gentlemen did something extremely different than I do.

Just like Mark McAfee, they practiced regenerative, or in the case of Mark Raw dairy. While having to support their family and make a living. And I've been blessed to do it for the most part, other than my foray into food and beverage as a research experiment or for the purposes of building a herd. But I never had to support a family and a team while doing it.

So I've been able to do kind of anything I've wanted to and could be completely idealistic if I chose to. And it's easy for me to throw stones at other people, but again, I, my livelihood or my families and my team has not depended on it. How many acres do you have in total Jordan? Uh, just over 4,000 farms in Tennessee and [00:59:00] Missouri.

And believe it or not, that's down from a lot more when I first started. 'cause I don't do anything small. We're in Texas, right? Everything's bigger here. But, uh, I would give great advice to a wannabe farmer right now because we have specialized most recently in how you can produce as much food. In as small a, uh, property as possible.

So I started entirely too large and I thought that I could go from great success in the supplement space to reproducing that in food. But the difference was I did everything. We built our facility, we planted the cover crops, we milked the animals, and we made the cheese and the, in this case it was a cultured dairy product from Africa called Amasi.

'cause it, Keefer wasn't good enough. I had to do something different than the difference. So, uh, I will say that, um, farming is the most amazing thing that I've ever been able to [01:00:00] do on this planet. I think it's the closest thing to the work of God other than helping another human being in need. But it is very, very difficult and in today's environment, farming the way that we want to farm.

All the odds are stacked against you. And I don't know if you all have, have talked to farmers recently in the US to see if the tariffs have helped that may have. In other words, Australian beef, New Zealand beef, south American beef has made it very difficult for us grass fed producers and even dairy sort of on the iris side.

Mm-hmm. And others. So I really wonder if even with 10% tariffs, if we've seen a bump in some of the US grass-based meat producers and dairy, the ones you all have interviewed, that would be interesting to see. But I think that it's really difficult and then if you look at conventional farming and subsidies and all of that, it's even more difficult.

Mm-hmm. [01:01:00] So I, I have so much respect for people who farm for a living. It's amazing. And I also have appreciation for the raspberries I'm gonna buy that are organic for 4 99 because I. I am confident that no birds are going to eat them. I'm confident that I'm not gonna get pricked by thorns if I happen to plant the thorn variety or that they're just not gonna come up at all because of a drought.

So I can buy raspberries for 4 99, 3 99, whatever. Growing them is flipping hard. Mm. But I also totally appreciate the idea that eating raspberries from your backyard and your local area would be awesome. Mm-hmm. Can we pull on the regenerative thread for a sec? I would love to hear your thoughts just on policy changes and the shifting landscape from away from conventional and just towards regenerative.

Like do you think that's actually possible? There's obviously a lot of great players out there doing it, but it's uh, it's such an interesting model and hopefully there's tailwinds to it. I think the key is gonna be the decentralization of the food system. And [01:02:00] so we built a model starting in 2017 that could essentially see our 4,000 acres in our.

A thousand animals multiplying in their natural course to ultimately feed the planet the entire projected 11.2 billion people in the year 2100. This took me a long time to work on. I like to fancy it to Goodwill Hunting, if you guys have seen it when you, that algorithm. I like to think it was like that, but it was done on a Blackberry and later an iPhone iCloud note.

So you're the goodwill hunting of buffalo milk, essentially. Something like that. Yeah. Um, and it involved planting perennial systems, trees, shrubs, vines, et cetera, and ultimately grazing the lanes with livestock, fertilizing. They eat the leaves. You use the leaves for medicine, the fruit for food, the animals.

It, it's an amazing system and I hope, and we're doing it now, but I hope one day it could be the, the way the world works and if [01:03:00] every major conglomerate of junk food tumbled and if I had. The ear and the bank account of princes and kings, we could actually farm the 1 billion acres it's gonna take to do that.

And ironically, a billion acres is a very small part of this planet. America has about 900 million arable acres. If, if we didn't do stupid things like raise the grain on one farm, raise the meat on the other farm and all that nonsense, so that 1 billion would be a very efficient way to do it. But what you're asking is, can it be done in the system we have today?

And I think the first question is, what is regenerative? Some people say that they wanna self-police. There's others that have various regenerative certifications. Will Harris has land a market from the Savory Institute. Others have reified. Reified allows the use of glyphosate. So some of us are kind of like, that's tough for the soil and for [01:04:00] people.

And the ified folks, which Gabe Brown is a part of and an amazing human being. So is Ray Archuleta and the others, they're more of a transitional group. Uh, land to Market is really focused on the land. And then we have been involved in many, but our organization of choice is regenerative organic, certified.

Mm. And that is something that stands on the broad shoulders of organic and is beyond organic. And that was my original name for our food and beverage business. And now the name of our, of our manufacturing business. I hate it when farmers say they're better than the organic, but then they're not willing to be organic.

I think that's disingenuous. But I understand organic is controlled by the government and some of the best farmers out there, Joel Saladon and others are more libertarian and um, anti-big government, which I probably fall in that persuasion as well. But I think. I think there needs to be an [01:05:00] end zone for us to know if we're scoring a touchdown.

And so I, I have listened to a lot of your episodes and some of the farmers you've interviewed said, we grain finish at the end because that's how our customers like it. And the cows still don't create a lot of linoleic acid in their, in their meat. And it's the best way to do it. And others are spraying and some are feeding hay and some.

So I think before I answer, is it possible to scale? I would need to know what definition of regenerative, but what I can say is we are in the best position in my lifetime to have the best food we've ever had. Just the fact that we can still order from Amos Miller and he's not completely shut down and the guy has, I'm not gonna say but what, what the imagery would be.

But the guy's got guts. I like, you can't even imagine the stuff that this guy's been through. [01:06:00] So I think we're gonna see a renaissance. It would be great if we could get raw milk without paying cash, only using a fictitious name and an unlabeled cooler in a back alley. You know what I'm saying? Um, I just don't know.

I think there needs to be a lot of change there. But on the regenerative side, I tend to get frustrated when we jump through all these hoops to become the highest standard of regenerative and in somebody else's tiptoeing in. But at the end of the day, progress is progress. For example, if a fast food restaurant switches out their oil, which would be vegetable oil, seed oil for tallow, I might not eat those fries, but I think it's a step in the right direction.

Mm. I don't think that means you should go in there and have a shake and the bun and everything else, but I have to appreciate progress. I am pretty strict. With my own diet and my kids. Uh, it's interesting. Um, it was just talking to someone the other [01:07:00] day and sharing the life that we've been able to live and what our kids have been able to consume and avoid.

And I didn't realize how unique we are that, uh, and I have six children. Five are adopted and some of them came to us when they were older, but the ones that we've had control over their health, never received a vaccination, never had a medication, not even an antibiotic. Never ate fast food. The other day I was at my daughter's flag football game and it was in a soccer field with no bathroom and we had to go into a Wendy's and one of the coaches were like, she had a great game.

Go buy her a frosty. She walked into that. Wendy's like, there were landmines everywhere. All we're doing is using the bathroom. It was, she's never seen the inside of a fast food restaurant. When I used to drive across country to. Our farm in Missouri from Florida. My kids wouldn't use the bathroom in McDonald's.

I said, you don't understand it's a bathroom and it's probably clean. I'm not ordering you a Big Mac. Yeah. So when you ask me a [01:08:00] question about regeneration regenerative farming, I, I get, um, pretty idealistic. But I do think that consumers are demanding it. And what I love about the animal-based movement and what I criticize the plant-based movement for, it's not simply that I don't agree with eating a plant-based diet for a myriad of reasons.

But if you listen to podcasts and media from folks who are meat eaters, you will almost always hear about grass fed and regenerative. Now, they don't always agree that that's how you have to eat the meat, but you're not gonna hear a program without discussing regeneratively raised. Mm-hmm. I don't listen to a lot of.

Plant-based content anymore. I listen to some 'cause you want to hear both sides. Mm-hmm. I don't hear that. W where are they talking about regenerative farming? They're not, now maybe there's the rare group and they use terms like veganic farming, which [01:09:00] means you're gonna farm and not use any animal inputs, which is crazy.

Then there's most plant producers that use animal bones and blood and all kinds of things. But the animal based movement, the high protein diet movement, they by and large will talk about regenerative. And I see that so many people are getting results from those diets. They're gonna start demanding it.

And I, and so many people, and you've interviewed many of them, young people are starting these type of farms and they want to do it regeneratively, whether certified or not. So it is absolutely spreading major retailers Costco, soon to be probably Walmart, are carrying. Items on the plant and animal side that are regenerative in their labeling.

And so I think the tipping point has already passed. I think it's a fat accompli as they say, and you all are younger than me and, and, uh, Lord willing, we [01:10:00] will all live a very long time, but I think we're gonna see things in our lifetime that will cause us to say, remember when farmers were subsidized to produce junk food?

Remember when glyphosate was sprayed on 40 million acres of lawns and mm-hmm. Public spaces? Remember when our pets were dying of cancer before the age of 10? And I think we're gonna see a renaissance, or I think Trump's called it something like the Golden Age. Now, ironically, we should all have the genetics that that guy has in terms of what he eats.

Juggernaut. I just juggernaut, I can't even believe it. It just is mind boggling. But, um, the fact that there's a recognition to allow for food freedom is huge. And back to the raw milk story. Why can't we buy milk and choose to boil it if we want? Mm-hmm. Because I can buy raw eggs, I can buy raw meat. I've eaten a lot of raw meat.

I've eaten a lot of raw eggs. Some of these things are just so un, so blatantly unfair. I don't think you should be able to say raw milk cures multiple [01:11:00] sclerosis without some level of research. Mm-hmm. But I also don't think that you should be prohibited from selling it or buying it. Mm-hmm. Do you think the regenerative alternative health, animal based movement, this, this combination of all these things, do you think that, um, we're still mi do you think the God piece is still missing?

'cause I think, I think there's very few people that are talking about integrating God back into the food system. I'm just curious with, um, you know, maker's diet and biblio diet that's, you know, that's fundamental to everything you talk about. I think that the Make America healthy again, movement is awesome.

And I think when. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Says he got on his knees and prayed for 20 years to be able to make an impact on people's health. It's amazing. He deserves a ton of credit, but when I talk to pastors of churches, and when I think about what I'd like to see the Biblio diet do in, in terms of educating Christians and [01:12:00] non-believers, or whatever you wanna call secular folks, I feel like this was all God's idea and he should get the credit.

And it's really important to me, at least within my effort to see that happen. So I, I believe, Brett, that God is missing in a lot of things. Mm-hmm. I think you're asking this because you're somebody who so values an animal-based diet, real food, whole food, and you so value your relationship with Jesus.

You're finding it. It frustrating that you, you can't always have those conversations. Mm-hmm. Because if we could be in this bubble where everybody ate meat and everybody loved Jesus, it would make, uh, our lives easier. Mm-hmm. Because we could, you know, all talk the same way, live the same way. But I've been in this natural health movement for so long.

I have been in two worlds for so long. My book was banned in health food stores, the Maker's Diet, because I talked about God. Wow. And because the implication was that I was [01:13:00] against this, this, this, and this. So I've lived with it. I like to find some common ground as long as I can. I work with people all over the world.

I have partnerships with folks from India who are very successful and very passionate. They're Hindu. They don't eat meat at all. And I can find common ground with all of them, but I absolutely would love to see, I. Yeah, the discussion about grass fed meat and about eating meat is God's idea. Because one thing you're gonna find in the Biblio diet is that the wisest man who ever lived according to the Bible is Solomon.

Mm. And I remember walking on our farm with Todd, our farm director, and I listened to the Bible on audio more than I read it. And I'm go, I go through it sequentially. I consume a lot of it every day. I'm an audible learner. It's amazing. And I was walking on our farm and I said, Todd, I remember there's a place in the Bible where it says what Solomon ate every day.

So in One Kings chapter four, I believe, verses [01:14:00] 18 through 22, it says, these were Solomon's daily provisions. Now this is going to chop some people's boots or their butts or whatever. But so it, it said he had cores of wheat and meal and flour, and he had grass-fed cattle. He had stall fed cattle, which, which I, I don't know that that was grain.

It could have been Hay, deer Roebuck and choice foul, and that's all that was discussed. Did he consume olive oil? Probably. Did he consume fruits and vegetables? Maybe he consumed grain. Probably wheat and barley. 'cause those were most celebrated. And it could have been more like eCorner emer, I, I can't speak to that.

And it was likely less hybrid eyes. It could have been purple barley, but he consumed copious amounts of animal foods. The Bible goes on to say the Queen of Sheba, one of the wealthiest people on the planet visited Solomon. And when she heard him talk about plants and animals and gold [01:15:00] and silver, she was amazed.

No one had ever spoken like that about science. So we're talking about a man, if you believe the Bible, who is the wisest man on the earth according to God himself. The richest man on earth. Silver wasn't even considered anything because it was so commonplace in Solomon's time is what the Bible says. So if Solomon knew everything about the human body and about animals, and he chose to eat grains and red meat and a little bit of white meat, I have to believe that's healthy.

And so you guys get this. The Christian Medical and Dental Association believes that red meat causes heart disease and cancer and saturated fat is bad. A lot of the folks that you run with believe that grains are bad. No one says grains and red meat is good. So, uh, red meat eaters and carnivores say plants are trying to kill you.

And vegans say that animal food is trying to kill you and the environment. [01:16:00] So I think if you're going to take God at his word, this is the answer. And there's another revelation I I don't have time to go into today that God spoke to me about in 2019. That I believe is an answer to cancer. So when we say on the Biblio Diet, the subtitle is Live Long, master Metabolism, reduce Pain, fight Depression, and Conquer Cancer with Healing Secrets from the Bible, their secrets are right, because I've read this book dozens, if not a hundred times, and I wrote books about biblical eating and I left this out.

How do you do that if it's the same book? Um, so I'm really, really excited about the Biblio diet, helping people that believe the Bible and that just want to get healthy to receive that. I, I remember when I used to tour for the Maker's Eyes, we have 3 million copies in print. I met many, many people. They would come to my seminar and say, Jordan, I do not believe in the Bible.

I'm an atheist, but your book [01:17:00] has helped me get well. Hmm. And you know what guys? It's not my job to convince or convert anybody, but one day that person might think, you know what? I can attribute my health to something called the Maker's Diet. Hmm. I might wanna know what the maker says about my finances or my relationships or my kids.

Hmm. That's the hope. But I think the Biblio diet is gonna have a major impact. The church, I'll say the global church at large is not very healthy. It sounds like you all go to a pretty, I'll say progressive church. I don't mean that necessarily in, I know what you're saying, politics, but it sounds like there's a friendliness to exercise and perhaps eating well, et cetera.

And that's rare. I mean, the church, because I think people gave up or pretended to give up so many other pleasures of life. Food is the last bastion they can hold onto. And abuse, gluttony never talked about in church for a good reason. Uh, so I really look [01:18:00] forward to helping the church get healthy. Hmm. Um, we've seen.

Financial stewardship spread throughout the church with Financial Peace University, Dave Ramsey, et cetera. And I would love to see a message of health get there. The reason it hasn't is because when Dave talks about getting outta debt, having an emergency fund, being a lender, but not a borrower, rather a giver, not a borrower.

Hmm. It's hard to argue. I mean, can you use a credit card and pay it off every time? Sure. But that's hard to argue. The reason health has not spread throughout the church is because US Health folks can't get our act together because we are arguing and one group says plants are trying to kill you, and the other says that animal food will kill you.

So there's, there's a lot of disagreements on what works for health, and I'm hoping that the Biblio diet, which shares a biblical historical and scientific, [01:19:00] I'll say, uh. Study on every type of food. So we're talking about not should you eat bread or not. 'cause the Bible says to eat bread and Jesus is called the bread of life, but what is the best bread?

Mm. And then what is the worst? And what's in between? What's the best meat? What's the best dairy? How do you avoid dairy? When the promised land's called the land of milk and honey. Mm-hmm. So we went through that and shared our thoughts. Now again, if you want to only eat meat for a short period of time, I would choose that over a juice fast any day of the week.

And I think it is likely very good for some people. I think there's a lot of benefits, but I don't believe for the average person that that's God's intended plan for them. And I think the biblio diet will reveal that. And so many junk food eaters in a way that's approachable are gonna see what artificial sweeteners can do.

They're gonna learn about forever chemicals. They're gonna learn about pesticides, they're gonna understand what organic really is. [01:20:00] But we wanna meet people where they are and at the same time give people hope no matter what they've been diagnosed with or how long they've quote unquote been given to live.

Hmm. So you talked about the 40 days where you're living outta your van on the beach, and then you talked about the 120 days afterwards. Can you just speak to your relationship with Jesus through that course of that healing process and how it changed and, you know, did you turn any corners with just the intimacy that you had with him?

I would say that the faith was the key, and really, I'm gonna call it the imagination muscle. And this is something that Christians have struggled with because, uh, you guys are probably a little young for this, but years ago there was a book and a, I think it was a television series or a video called The Secret, which talked about the power of intention.

And then there was a book, power of Intention. Mm-hmm. I think Wayne Dyer or somebody wrote that. Um. There was all kinds of discussion about positive thinking, et cetera. And it [01:21:00] was sort of a skewed and bad mouth by the church because it's easy to label things as new age. Right? Right. And for me, I was deathly ill and like many people who are sick with a diagnosis, you sit there and imagine it getting worse.

Mm-hmm. Now, I would argue that when somebody is fearful and depressed about something, it's not necessarily where they're at now. It's what's gonna happen. Yes. So my marriage is bad. Am I gonna lose my spouse? My bank account's low. Am I gonna lose everything? My kids on the brink of going off the rails, what's gonna happen?

Or I've been given a diagnosis. Like a LS is one of the worst diseases possible you can read about what happens to the body. That diagnosis gets you to think about it. I've been diagnosed with cancer and they've given me a 1% chance to live. So you start dwelling and imagining death. Loss of your spouse, loss of your kid.

It says [01:22:00] in the Bible, as a man thinks in his heart, so is he. Then it says, outta the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks and death and life are in the power of the tongue. So I learned this the hard way a little bit when I was in California. I was a very negative person, I think in some respects, and I was sick and I created this like I am sick.

But the truth is, and you can appreciate this, Brett and Harry, I'm sure you can with, with some level of health challenge. 'cause we all have something. When I was at my worst, I might have had a cramp every five minutes and I might have had to go to the bathroom every 45 minutes around the clock, worse at night, which makes it so much more of a challenge.

But I wa I, there were times when I wasn't in pain or nauseous and so I started thanking God for the moments or seconds that I wasn't. Physically sick at the, at that time. And I really feel like the minutes turn to [01:23:00] hours. The hours turn to days. And I remember Bud Keith, who helped me get, well, put me on that path.

He said, no more frowning. I have a bunch of kids here. I don't want them to see you. You're never smiling. And I say, well, in Jewish, we call that Unga Blain. That's Yiddish for a frown. He said, no more unga Blain. And my kids are gonna tell me if you are. And I, I had to start speaking what I wanted and I'm gonna get to something in just a moment.

Not only that, fast forward when I started feeling better and I'm in this motor home and I'm spending my days walking on the beach. I had a lot of alone time and I'm more of a people person. So I would go on a swing at a park or take a walk, and I imagined what my future would be like. I imagined getting married.

I imagined having a family. I imagined being strong and healthy. I Ima I didn't imagine being in business or anything like that. That wasn't something I thought about at the time. I imagined having a farm, and I think that when we [01:24:00] get past a certain age, we stop imagining. Hmm. And imagination is either faith or fear when we're kids, were dreamers.

Um, Joshua told me this, he had sometimes, depending on the size of the roster, could have 120 players on the team. And I remember him telling me that he did his interview one year exit interview, and his coach said, you're the only player on this team that doesn't want to play in the NFL or believe they can.

And the irony of it is, I'm gonna make him go to his pro day because he's got some really great numbers and it's, he wants to go in the health and nutrition space. And I'm like, just get some objective testing done. It's a great thing to do anyway. At some point we stop imagining the best for ourselves.

Kids think they're gonna be superheroes, they think they're gonna be. Policemen, detective, firemen, professional, this, that, or the other. Every kid in little league thinks they're gonna make the MLB, but we stop because we're told You can believe the worst. But if you [01:25:00] believe the best, you're a cockeyed, optimist, or you're an idiot.

Mm-hmm. Meanwhile, we're talking about these podcasts that are hosting founders, and what's the common theme? I didn't care what happened. I was going to follow my belief, or I was going for it no matter what. Even in my last dollar or my last customer, whatever failure it was, it's rare. So I imagine my future life, I didn't imagine myself sick and weak.

People today talk about what they don't want, and they're afraid to talk about what they want because they're gonna look foolish, stupid, or like an idiot, like someone with no money like me saying one day I'm gonna raise. And grow some of the world's healthiest food in the Christian faith. There are a lot of denominational differences and if you guys have ever heard of name it and claim it, have you heard of that?

It's Prosperity Gospel. I haven't heard of it or I heard of the Prosperity. Well, it's people will make fun and say if you go out there and say, I'm gonna get a Rolls Royce, which listen, I do not agree that God's [01:26:00] blessing comes in a massive house or an amazing car or a jet. They would say, name it and claim it as bad.

I grew up in the Baptist Church, which was amazing in so many ways, but I was told to avoid the faith or name it and claim it movement because they're trying to equate God's blessing with riches and fortune and fame. But what I've come to believe is the name it and claimant, it movement is absolutely real.

But here's what I mean by that. I know people that have said repeatedly every day they're gonna die. And I've seen them die. I know people that say their kid's gonna amount to nothing and they amount to exactly that. I know someone who says they're gonna lose their marriage and it's over. So if death and life are in the power of the tongue, if out out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks.

If a man, as he thinks in his heart, so is he. I believe we need to start imagining and believing for our best. And we're so quick to say, oh no, no, no, [01:27:00] maybe not a MLB major League baseball player. What about being just a great high school player? Because you know what? You're short. You know what? You're slow.

You know what? You started late or you don't have great vision. Whatever silly thing it is. I feel like we as believers need to develop our faith. And to answer your question, in a long way, Harry, I was on fire for God before I got sick and I thought. That because I went to college, I didn't drink, I didn't smoke, I didn't party, I didn't have sex.

I was the, um, chaplain of a fraternity that recently got kicked off of campus as a freshman because I wanted to make a difference in the lives of people that were quote unquote living for the world. And I thought, because of my faith and because I'm giving all these things up, my life's gonna go just like this.

But I realized that glory to glory is kind of like this. If you're not watching me, I'm starting high, going [01:28:00] low, going higher, going lower. And in my life, most of what's happened to me that the world would consider great came from a low moment. Um, Psalm 23 talks about walking through the valley of the shadow of death, but fearing no evil.

It doesn't say, you're gonna get me outta there, it says, you're rot and your staff comfort me and you prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies. It didn't say. Um, away from my enemies or I am rescued. And so for me, during my time of illness, my faith was deepened. And this is for it to be continued.

I needed that faith for when I was diagnosed with terminal cancer for the age of 33 because I drew from that. And if I didn't go through conquering Crohn's disease, Crohn's colitis, inflammatory bowel disease, I don't know if I would've had that same level of faith. I already got the picture taken. But for me to be told by top [01:29:00] oncologists in the world that you have a 100% chance of dying in 90 days, if you don't get a very, uh, I'll call it dangerous and invasive surgery and chemotherapy pre and post that, you're gonna die.

And I had to have the faith to stand up to that. And so I think faith is a muscle. You exercise it through imagining. And we've we're told not to do it. We forget to do it. We're made fun of for doing it. We're daydreaming, but we just got a dream. And a dream doesn't require sleep. Mm-hmm. That's the big thing.

We have got to dream and people will now say, I have a vision, or I have a dream. But I mean, really get one. You know? And if you're sick today, you want to know the number one way to get healed. It is not raw dairy. It's not grass fed meat, it's not fresh air or walking on the beach, although they're awesome.

It's not sunshine. It is hope and faith and believing. Imagining yourself [01:30:00] well, because when you were told you have six months to live, if you don't fight back with faith, you will absolutely imagine that every single day. How many times guys, do you hear somebody say, my kid's autistic. They don't say battling autism.

My kid's autistic. I'm diabetic. I am a cancer, whatever it is now. I was told this once and it blew my mind. There's only one name that God refers to himself as in the Bible. And it is, I am that. I am. So if you are using the term, I am a diabetic, in some ways you are acknowledging that God is allowing that and can't heal you.

You know, that's pretty deep. So for me, going through what I've been through has refined my faith. I didn't find Jesus in tragedy. Sometimes it was hard to find him honestly because either I wanted to be alone. I wanted to wallow in my sorrow. But the one thing [01:31:00] that I can say, and this is to anybody, and I'm not trying to be judgemental, I'm not trying to, um, preach to anybody, but the time that you know you need God is when you have an illness, when you have a financial issue that is impossible to overcome when you are.

Relationship with the closest person in the world to you, your spouse is completely upside down. When you are truly alone or when you could think you're alone, that's when your relationship with Jesus matters. Because the difference between someone that knows God and doesn't is when no one else is around.

Mm. If you know God, you are in someone's hands. If you don't, you are alone in darkness and people don't want to talk about heaven and hell, but forget about the burning and the weeping and the gnashing of teeth and your tongue being on fire [01:32:00] and all the other horrible things. Being alone is the worst in alone in darkness, and that's where God carried me through those times.

I could see it now. I had to find for it. It's like being in a room that's pitch black during my darkest hour, but I tried my best. There's a, a. Christian artist Stephen Curtis Chapman, probably a little before your time, but he was one of my favorites. And I, I played a song of his on loop on my stereo with my tape recorder.

And I played that all through the night. 'cause I didn't sleep. I was up every 45 minutes or an hour and 15 minutes in the bathroom and it was called Hiding Place. And it just talks about when the waters rise and, uh, you run to hide in you, I find my hiding place. And in the Bible, in the Psalms, it says, David said, you're my hiding place.

So if you can hide in God, it's much better than hiding alone. And so for me, um, that was so, so important and it's [01:33:00] no less important today. Um, it's great to have conversations like this because it helps me be reminded of where I came from and maybe I won't be frustrated about something silly in the next couple of hours.

But, um, that's, that's the bottom line. And I think, um. The only way you can find truth is having a relationship with truth. And that's why it's pretty awesome. Jesus doesn't say, I'm gonna tell you the truth. He says, I am the way, the truth and the life. And then later in John 8 32, you will know the truth and the truth, who's a person will set you free.

So again, we talked about this. If you are in bondage to illness or if you are suffering in your marriage or your relationships, that's how you find freedom. You talk, hear people say freedom in Christ because the truth will set you free. And I, I hope that the two of you, as you've gone into being young professionals and about to be married, which is a whole new ball game and a great one that you all [01:34:00] could attest to that because I'm sure in, in one way, even though you had maybe the world at your fingertips, I'm hoping that if someone were to ask you, what is your relationship with Jesus mean to you, that freedom would be one of those words.

Hmm. Absolutely. B before we wrap, what advice would you have for both of us just to keep Christ at the center of our business with everything that we're doing? Well, that's the advice. Um, I'm really proud of both of you. And I say that not in a, in a way as if I'm some sage, but you are in a business and you are surrounding yourself with certain individuals that are legends, right?

I mean, you're interviewing people that you all have looked up to, that have written these books, that have these huge podcasts, and then you're also, which is great, interviewing amazing people that are not, um, in the spotlight. But you got people on here from all different backgrounds using all [01:35:00] different choice phrases and words.

And again, I'm not suggesting that because somebody uses a curse word that they're not going to heaven. But point being, you're around a lot of these folks. And, and I would just say that, and this is I'm talking to myself and the two of you. Never be afraid to share what God puts on your heart, no matter who you're in front of, no matter what's at stake, no matter how you think they're going to react.

Because I can imagine you interviewing certain people that are very well known and bringing God into the message and maybe getting an interesting reaction. Mm-hmm. Um, because again, I love a lot of the carnivore and animal-based diet messaging, but it almost always points back to an evolutionary understanding of our makeup and pre-industrial era.

And a million years ago, we didn't have dairy or corn or whatever. And so I think if you can be true to yourself, uh, Christians around [01:36:00] the world are willing to go to jail and be burned at the stake for. What they believe. And we today are afraid to mention the name of Jesus because a famous influencer might think less of us.

So I would just say you all are off to a great start in that regard. And I think that it's really important. And then from a family perspective, I would say set some really good practices. I don't wanna call it anything other than that, but we have tried to take communion. Um, a lot of the nights when our family's together and we have, we drink olive oil after my trip to Greece, this really good quality olive oil.

And we quote Acts one, eight with our family because oil represents the Holy Spirit. And now do my kids say it with full sincerity and enthusiasm? Probably not, but you know what? Death and life's in the power of the tongue. So I think if you all can establish these practices and principles, I wouldn't be [01:37:00] religious about it, but have things that.

You can look back on journaling is a, is huge for me. My family at dinner we quote Psalm 91 and I learned that from Bud Keith who helped me get well 'cause his family quoted it almost like over 30 years ago and I've been doing it every day since. So these are practices that I'm proud of and the legacy that I'm gonna leave.

And I, it's interesting because it's in the cloud now, but I have, I, I think a 12 year journal going in my iCloud. Mm-hmm. And, you know, I also shudder to think of some of what my kids are gonna read. 'cause you know, I'm writing what's on my heart. But, um, those are the things I really focus on. And I'm gonna be 50.

You, you guys are, uh, young, a lot younger, but I think that you can never be ashamed of the gospel. Don't force it when you're in a conversation. But if you feel a tugging to share, do it unashamedly. And if you get canceled, if you are not invited back, then that. [01:38:00] Is the modern version of facing persecution and, and, uh, knowing you're gonna be blessed.

'cause it says blessed are those who are persecuted. 'cause you're gonna receive a great reward in heaven. Hmm. So I think, um, you're in an awesome stage of life where both of you're about to start families and you understand health. I mean, what a blessing I have guys, I've talked to thousands of people and I know I'm digressing, that didn't know that dozens of immunizations for your infant could cause any problems and they lament it.

I, I hear, I don't know how many times I've heard my child was perfectly fine speaking, verbalizing, moving, and the day they received x, y, Z vaccine, they lost some speech, they lost some movement. I wish I would've known. So you all know that and that's a truth. But most importantly, you know the truth. And so, uh, I will speak blessings over you.

I, I believe, and I want you to believe you're gonna have. One spouse, [01:39:00] uh, I believe you're gonna have incredible health. Your kids are gonna be healthier than you are, and they can grow up to be world changers. Mm-hmm. Right? Because these are the promises of God. And one thing I've done that, uh, is exciting.

I have this call it daily declarations, and it's so long now that I recorded it in voice text. As soon as I wake up, I play it. And I quote every promise of God I could find in the Bible. In some cases, it sounds self-serving because I say like, Abraham, I'm gonna grow wealthy with cattle, gold, and silver. I talk about God taking me through the fire.

I talk about like Solomon, I'm gonna have a wise and understanding heart. Like Daniel, I'm gonna have 10 times the wisdom and favor and understanding of all those of my contemporaries that don't know him. These are just scripture, not just scripture. These are scripture and I've added to it. I started this in oh seven.

And I still add to it because I'm reading promises in the Bible. And so I [01:40:00] used to read it. Now I listen to it and these are just things that are most important to me. You see a lot of videos. This is my morning routine and I do cool biohacking stuff too. But the ultimate biohack is to read the promises of God over your life or have your, have it read in your own voice.

Wow. Because it will give you an opportunity to be everything that you are created to be. 'cause that's what the promises of God are. It's not about being rich. I say like Moses, at 120 years, my eyes will not be dim and my strength will still be there. That's important. But what's also important is the legacy that you leave and all of it's there.

And so that's probably something that, uh, I can't live without, man. It's a powerful way to end it, brother. Appreciate you. Um, just being a friend, being a mentor. I feel like this is multiple years in the making. I feel like we need to do a whole part two just on, uh, how you keep God at the center of your businesses.

'cause we really even talked Garden of Life and [01:41:00] Ancient Nutrition, but just such an incredible conversation. We just appreciate you and we'll link to everything in the show notes. Awesome. Thanks for having me guys. Thanks Jordan. Thanks sweet brother. That was great. There's probably five episodes that we could do off of that.

I wanna rip for two more hours right now. I know.