#417 Brett & Harry: Inside the Making of the Meat Mafia Podcast

Copy of meat mafia - 7-25-25
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[00:00:00] Brother. Brother, how we doing? Good, man. Happy Friday dude. Happy Friday. Yeah, what a beautiful day. Just wrapping up a good week. Um, yeah, excited to record. I feel like we haven't done a podcast together in a little while. Just one-on-one. Yeah. It's been a little bit since our last solo riff, but it seems like people really enjoy them and they're also just fun and they're really organic and authentic.

Yeah, I was, um, I, I've been telling you like we need to be doing more of these solo like individual, like you doing a podcast, me doing a podcast, um, of us just doing like a monologue, talking into the mic about a topic that we care about. And I've done two of them so far and it's been interesting just switching up the formats and just pressing into some of that creativity in a different way.

Like I think we've both gotten to the point where we get really excited about interviewing guests and being the person who's asking the right questions, but actually being the person who's bringing the full extent of the conversation is, is a totally different. [00:01:00] Artistic creative muscle. Yeah. And so I've been excited about that kind of format shift, adding that into kind of the repertoire of things that we're doing with a pod.

So I'm excited, um, for you to get the chance to do that. That's kinda been one thing that, you know, it's been been interesting the last few weeks, teasing that out a little bit. Yeah. It's been cool seeing you prep for that and just the invigorated feeling that you've had afterwards. 'cause like you said, they're really, I think a lot of people don't realize this when you have guests or you even have like a co-hosted show, there's pros and cons to everything, but you definitely have a life raft for sure.

Having a co-host where it's like, if I'm having an off day or something, I could really rely on you. But also, like in an interview style podcast, you're really just, it's just the art of like asking good questions and then closing your mouth and letting the guests do a lot of the work for you. Yeah. Um, so it's been cool to see you just like own that.

And it seems like that first episode got some really good feedback too, and I'm excited to see what, what comes from that series of us just like. Mixing in these [00:02:00] different things into our repertoire because you just, you always have to be evolving because what worked, you know what, when we started in 2022 is not gonna work in 2025.

And things are evolving so quickly that even things that you're seeing work six months ago aren't gonna necessarily work today too. Totally. It's fun. Yeah, no, it's awesome. I feel like just the one thing, I feel like the podcast has given us that steady stream of creative output, but it's also one of the things that I feel like we haven't necessarily innovated too much on, just in terms of like how we're putting formats out.

Like even in just the long form capacity, speaking to, you know, there's a million different things we could do with clips, but from just like a long form standpoint, we've really just stuck with one format. I think it's been great. Like this is our first soay into like any creative pursuit. Um, and so for us, like I think we both really enjoy just like getting down and having an interview with somebody else.

Like it, it's really is an exciting form of content 'cause. Typically you're very excited to have the mm-hmm. The person on the show [00:03:00] and you're so eager to ask them questions. Like, I remember, you know, sitting down with Paul Check I, I talked to him for three and a half hours and I'm like, dude, this guy, I've literally listened to this guy, his health and wellness content for 10, 15 years at this point.

Yeah. I, I listened to his podcast with Tim Ferriss and all these other people who I've taken so much from. And so just to be able to like, sit down with people like that, like, I don't want to speak, I want to just ask the questions. Yes. And I know you feel the same way. Mm-hmm. So it's like, it is cool kind of just transitioning though into like, you know, some, somewhat of, more of a authority in thinking about Okay.

Like, you know, when we first started, which, you know, for anyone who's listening to the pod for the first time, we started writing back in 2021. Mm-hmm. And we were doing long form written content and that was like, I dunno, there was something cool about just that first like, taste of. Creative success.

Definitely. Yeah. I know that you were saying, I think this theme of this episode [00:04:00] for the Listener is us almost. Reflecting and hashing out just some stories and almost like watermark moments for the podcast the last couple years that really compounded to the point that we're at now. And so I think there's gonna be a lot of value for the listener with us just kind of pinballing back and forth on just things that we did the first, you know, from the first six months to three years into the show that are, are obviously very memorable, but it's responsible for why we're at where we're at now.

Yeah. And obviously I know a lot of you that listen to the show, you know, you have these incredible dreams and aspirations and, um, you know, there's just some things that we've l learned along the way that we want to talk about and rehash that. I think it'll be really helpful for you as a listener. Yeah.

All right. First question to you, can you tell me just when we were living together, so October, 2021, we are preparing for this Ironman. You're also drafting up in, kind of like in the, on the side, you're drafting up this. Word document of your [00:05:00] story. Mm-hmm. Like your healing story, and later on, a few months later you end up publishing that story.

Mm. And I'd love to just hear your, your weeks, months, just like the details of you putting that together and hitting send and just how that really felt like getting that, getting that story out of your mind into the word doc and then hitting send and seeing it actually perform. Well, definitely. You know, I think, um, like one of the defining themes of our show, particularly early stages, were just, it was really just momentum and momentum initially through just change in environment.

So Harry, being in Boston for almost a decade, myself being in New York City for about five years, up until that point, you know, we just got ourselves outta that city. Signed up for, for Ironman Mantra and Blunt up in Canada that got canceled. We, uh, we, we signed up for Ironman, Waco, and that put us in Austin in an Airbnb for [00:06:00] a couple months.

And that's really where we like honed our friendship and also really like uncovered our passion for health and wellness, the desire to create something. And so for me, um, when we were living in Austin, you had quit your job at this point, and I was just seeing you really like, just like tinker behind the scenes.

Like, you know, you were exploring a chief of staff internship, or sorry, a Steve, a chief of staff role with Justin Mayers, that that ended up forming into a business opportunity you were pursuing with him. And then on the side you were getting, you were really involved in the Bitcoin Twitter space, which was pulling you into the health and wellness space.

And so you were showing me a lot of these accounts. And then I also remember the first blog post that you wrote was it called Houston, we Have a Problem, Houston We Have a Problem. And you, you were basically just like depicting a lot of the things that you were seeing in regards to. The United States is metabolic health epidemic, things that we were doing to our soil, um, that you deemed as incorrect.

And I was just [00:07:00] reading this and I had known you as like, obviously you, I always thought of you as a very creative and driven person, but up to up until that point, you were in a real estate, private equity job. I didn't know that you had this amazing ability to write and articulate your thoughts, uh, putting pen to paper.

And so that for me was really interesting where I was like, wow, Harry has this amazing skillset. This is just, this is so incredible. I'm learning things for this blog post. And it was, it was cool as a friend to see you doing that. Um, and then there was also just momentum, like I was saying, being, being in this new city.

At one point you, you had decided that Austen was gonna be your forever, your forever home, at least for the indefinite future. So you got yourself an apartment. We moved from the Airbnb, um, to your apartment. You had a, you had your bedroom. I was sleeping on the floor, which was incredible. In between there, this is a total side point just for you and me to laugh, but in between there maybe the worst apartment we anyone could ever imagine staying there.

Oh, absolutely. For three days. Yeah. It was terrible. I thought I was gonna die. I know. I thought I was gonna [00:08:00] die. That was, uh, that was tough for sure. But so yeah, so you get your forever apartment and uh, I was sleeping on your floor. I slept amazing on your floor. I was, I remember checking my, uh, my Garmin sleep score.

My rem was the highest that had ever been, by the way. So yeah, you were super human. So anyway, but there was just like, there was just so much creative vim and energy and just excitement and like the novelty of being in a new city and just seeing you chase this thing that was really unknown, but you were so passionate about it and you were like, really, you had this craftsman mentality.

And so that made me reflect on. The health journey that I had been on, um, you know, just defeating ulcerative colitis, uc, holistically through this carnivore diet. And I'd had people share, say before, like, dude, there's something to this story that you need to get out into the world. And, um, I had draft written it a couple times in, in New York, I think it was three times in particular.

I actually tried to write a blog story on my healing journey, but I just put so much pressure on myself and I didn't know what the path forward was because I [00:09:00] was working this tech sales job and I was following a lot of creators online. I was so into the health and wellness space. I just didn't know how to like generate that, like that upward thrust of a rocket ship to puncture towards what I wanted.

I just didn't know how I would get there. So I would write the blog post and I would get so discouraged and overwhelmed. I would delete it. Um, you know, I remember I wrote it on paper one time. I crumpled it up through into a basket. And then when you, there was something different about. You and I leaving that Austin experience, that living experience together in 2022, because we essentially made a commitment of like, there's something special between the two of us and we just kind of made this commitment to explore what that would look like.

And so I actually moved to San Diego because I was, there was, I had a vision in my head that I just wanted to be near the beach for a period of time. Austin at that point, was amazing, but I didn't know if it was gonna be my forever home. I just really wanted to do California, especially being from the east coast and you were the one that said, Hey man, I really think that there's [00:10:00] something to your healing story that the world needs to hear.

And it really, it, there's something about it that, the way that you said it, it resonated with me. And I remember being in San Diego, I was by myself, um, living, living alone at the time, didn't know anyone. And my apartment had this really nice like business work center. And I remember just sitting there with my computer.

Starting to feel that same overwhelm. And then there was a shift that had happened where I remember thinking, and it was definitely God, just saying to myself, everything that you want is on the other side of just writing this blog post and just pushing it out into the world. Hmm. And, um, so I sent it to you.

You gave me some good feedback on it, and at that point I had been consuming a ton of content on Twitter, and I just had this like natural eye for the way that thread, like the, how a body of a thread could be written, like understanding how hooks are. And I was like, I think this could actually be a good thread on Twitter.[00:11:00]

And so I took the skeleton of that blog. I, I, I put it into a thread. Um, I scheduled it for 5:00 AM Pacific time the next night. And then I went to bed and had like, just this very exciting feeling about it. Um. And then at that time we were part of Soul Bras, um, community. I think it was Soul Club. Oh yeah.

And there were it, this was the early days of Soul Club. So there were only probably like 50 to a hundred members at the time. And I remember thinking to myself, if there's ever a chance for Soul Bra to see something that I've written, it's probably like posting it in its community. So the thread goes live, doesn't really do anything.

And then I posted it in the community. He saw it, thought there was something there, retweeted it, and then it just started to do numbers where I think it got 2000 likes, like couple hundred thousand impressions. Wow. And I think I gained my first like 500, a thousand followers. And that was like, you know, that really was like a shark tasting blood for the first time in this.

Like this seed of potential that was actually becoming something real around like, man, [00:12:00] you're not, you're not just gonna, you, you don't need to just be a guy that is an observer. Like you can really have a voice in this space. And that for me, that's where everything really changed. Hmm. So what gave you the confidence to keep going after that first one?

Was it just that initial, you said the initial taste, the blood in the water. Was it that first feeling of just, oh my gosh, I can actually like put something out there that adds value to other people's lives and build this skillset that I didn't even really know that I had? I think there's probably two parts.

I think number one, I think building this like dream of the meat mafia, it felt so good to actually chip away at the conversations that we were having in Austin and those conversations that we were having in Austin that was really like. Like, that was like a decade long individual journey that we had each had separately that kind of materialized into ourselves coming together where we both always felt like we were meant for something more.

And I think so many men are, are [00:13:00] dying to just put something out into the world that's uniquely their own. So I think just the, the exhilaration of creating something, getting this instant feedback on the internet, people being responsive to it, that was, that was incredible. And then secondly, you know, I think my safeguard was having someone like you that was a, that was our, that was a business partner at the time.

Like that I, I respond really well to that accountability. So I'm like, well, Harry's giving me his word. I'm giving Harry my word. We're saying we're gonna do this. There's no option. We're just gonna figure this out together. And for me, the confidence of having just a really good friend sitting, sitting next to me was, uh, that was really the catalyst that, that was the difference maker between myself and New York not hitting post versus it hitting post and then being the catalyst to kind of help put us in the seat now.

Yeah. There's something special, I think about that period between January, 2022 and June, 2022, where we were fully anonymous on Twitter. [00:14:00] You and I were both really leaning into our new, basically like newfound friendship. Both realized that there was a ton of things that we wanted to improve on and basically develop within ourselves that for years maybe we had just kinda let be dormant, you know, potential that we hadn't fully realized yet in our lives.

And I think that six month period in 2022, that first half between, because the first half was very focused on writing, and I think it, it then evolved into the actual podcast. Mm-hmm. But through that. It was basically an evolution of our, both of our shared interest of wanting to create something. And I think we both realized that one, we had some level of a writing talent or some level of just, um, an ability to articulate things in a way that captured people's attention mm-hmm.

Uh, in the health and wellness space. And then two, like this drive, like I just remember there being this insatiable like quench. Mm-hmm. Like, [00:15:00] we were like just going after it because we were so hungry to see. Just this thing compound and it felt like it was compounding every day. Mm-hmm. Like everything that we did had some level of like a response, a return, and it was stacking on top of each other.

Yes. So quickly. And there's something just so, man, like when life is moving at a speed that it's just like such a naturally good cadence where you're like, man, everything I'm doing, it just, it's working. Mm-hmm. It's like when you're working out and you're seeing gains happen in real time. Yes. You know?

Yeah. The, the feeling that, the feelings that come to mind for me, that time period in particular, it was just like purity. It was presence, it was single-mindedness. It was like, it was, it was essentially a, it felt like, um, almost like you'd, you'd imagine like what the early stages of Walt Disney felt like when he was like drawing up cartoons for this incr, this crazy vision of Mickey Mouse that became Walt Disney.

It's like this, like methodical obsession towards this. Vision in your head that you really, you truly believe that you could turn into [00:16:00] reality. And the only way that you're gonna turn it into reality is like putting that pen on paper and like creating your art, uh, and, and publishing your art into the world.

That's really what it felt like where it was the first time where, you know, I wasn't focused on like money or finances or friendships or doing this or what is that person doing. It was like literally all I wanted to do was just research, write more with you, us, get feedback on it. Have conversations about Meat Mafia that obviously like progressed into the podcast, which, we'll, which we'll obviously talk about in this episode.

But I think a lot of founders, um, they experienced that purity and that single-mindedness and then their businesses start to get way more complex and they lose that feeling or they get bogged down by these other things and they forget why they started in the first place and like they stop doing the things that create that purity that feels like play that they could do forever.

Totally. Was there something about having the character, 'cause we, we were both anonymous. Was there something about having sozo as this character, that you were building this muse that's [00:17:00] like, it's getting put out there and there's being, there's, you know, every new thing that you add to like the, your Twitter feed, it's building into this new character, this new creation.

I mean, that's your Mickey Mouse, this sozo. Yeah, we, we definitely had a progression, right where it was, we were anonymous on X first. We didn't show our faces, we didn't talk into a camera. We didn't do short form reels on Instagram of us, like speaking some 32nd talk track to catch the audience through a hook and go viral.

It was, it was anonymous anonymity, first written content, um, anonymous through a podcast interviewing people, showing our faces, doing more solo interviews where we were kind of calling the shots and giving our own perspective. Then it was going public, then it was starting a brand, like there was a very clear progression and I think for both of us.

I know for me it, it gave me this like progressive wave of confidence where I think a lot of people don't know how to get started because they haven't, [00:18:00] they're trying to mimic someone else's form of content that doesn't feel authentic to them. And I'm not the right person. I can't tell you how to find it outside of like, you have to experiment with different mediums until you find that thing that really sticks and feels authentic to you that you enjoy doing and can put out into the world.

Hmm. Is there anything that you realized about writing in particular that you were drawn to? Just being able to like just massage some of those sentences together until it's like, man, that's actually, that's the one, that's the sentence I need to go with. I think the beauty of, uh, Twitter before it became X, when it was a character limit, is like, it forced me to just get rid of all the fluff in regards to the way that I was writing.

And I think that also translated to the way that I was speaking. And I still think about that a lot with the podcast too, where like, even in the early days of the show, I remember just throwing out. Words in vocabulary and vernacular that made myself seem a lot smarter than I really was. Where the best episodes that we've recorded are just trying to explain something that a 5-year-old can [00:19:00] understand.

Yeah. I think what was really fun for me from a writing perspective was like what you learn is like the hook is 99% of the battle, particularly on X and Twitter. And a lot of that's actually through that. That's also, that's, that's true. It's the equivalent of a YouTube thumbnail or the first five seconds of an Instagram short.

It's like how do, what's the perfect combination of things that I could say, or pictures that I could put that really hooks an audience in that will let them consume this really good information? So that was a really fun journey around like playing around with the different hooks and trying to find the perfect thing to get someone to stop scrolling, click, consume, and then follow, and then engage with what we were saying.

That was really fun. Totally. So for anyone listening, just to recap a bit, Brett and I moved down to Austin October, 2021. We're running this Ironman together. Brett, I end up signing a lease down here, Brett's living on my floor until the end of the year. We end up starting writing online, posting stuff on Twitter, posting blog posts.

We get into [00:20:00] this creative process that we didn't even really sign up for, realize what we were really doing. Mm-hmm. But we just wanted to put stuff out there and we started telling stories that we thought were interesting and relatable. And then within the first three months of 2022, basically our sole focus up until March was, let's just keep writing and just like compound on this success that we were having.

Because what we experienced was you put that article out, it did really well. Mm-hmm. And then we started writing threads on what had happened in the food system, things that had broken. Decades ago that we're now living through these consequences that people don't, they don't lift their head up, heads up enough, or they don't look backwards and ask questions about things that have happened and just become normal.

And we realized that there was tons of things that had just become normal in society with specifically with food that needed to be addressed. And so we just started writing about these topics. By March it was clear that things were gonna [00:21:00] be happening for our accounts. We had, you know, a few thousand followers.

Um, you know, if we kept going, you know, something could happen. Mm-hmm. And then we decide, hey, let's start a podcast. I wanna hear your thoughts on just like, thinking about that moment of. Let's change up the medium, let's change up the format in terms of how we're putting information out there. What it was like going through your head when we started talking about that.

Do you mind if I reverse the question back on you? Totally. 'cause I feel like flip it because you were, you were the one that had the idea for it. Yeah. So I, I would love to get your perspective and then I'll, I'll answer it too. But yeah, I think, I think the first thought for me was, it was the end of COVID.

This was kind of like my logic through the whole thing was basically it was the end of COVID and we were seeing a lot of people get de platformed from Twitter. There was like this very weird period during Twitter where people were getting removed from the platform for saying things about vaccinations, saying things about, uh, what had happened during COID [00:22:00] and we were on the fringe.

You know, like I, I don't think that we were saying anything that was too abrasive, but like there was definitely a chance that this. Momentum, this, this information that we're pouring into X. My, my chief concern was like, you and I are investing in investing literally everything we have. Like, I'm not making any money at this point.

You have your job, but it's like, you know, I'm spending all my time investing into this one medium, and if we grow and then these people pull a plug on us, like, dang, like mm-hmm. We, we don't really own anything. And so my thought was, Hey, let's, let's like diversify and if we actually wanna get into the health and wellness space, we're, we're growing a reputation in terms of the things that we care about.

People are, whether we've built credibility or at least just built a reputation for putting good information out there. We, we had put signal out into the universe and people were responding to it. And so we had interesting people starting to follow us. So I'm like, dude, we should [00:23:00] connect with these people.

Mm-hmm. Like these people are people that we've looked up to for a long time and maybe there's a chance that, you know, if we. Build a relationship here, something good could happen. So those were, I like, man, I wish I could say that there was a bigger vision, but it was really just like, I think the initial thought was mostly, probably 80% was let's diversify how we're putting information out so that we can own more of the the medium.

Yeah. Uh, yeah, I think the fact that it's simple is honestly a good thing. Yeah. I think most people are overcomplicating it and thinking it too much. Like, I just remember 2022, so much of it was like, you know, you had an idea. Okay, boom. That make that, that fits in my gut. Okay, let's figure out how to do this or like, like another idea.

You agree with it? Okay, boom. Let's figure out how to do this. Let's get like totally. It just was not a lot of overthinking. It was just, it was just like controlled force and momentum towards the thing that we wanted and that we kind of like brute force that to like break outta this echo chamber to like actually have a voice in the space.

And we also just had this, [00:24:00] this kind of blind faith around if we, um. If we put out enough good free information and we get people bought in on our mission, which is to make people healthier, the internet's gonna tell us what we should be doing to monetize that or be able to support ourselves. And when you look at 2025, how true is that man?

Like there's like accounting firms that are crushing it, literally just by having a presence on social media. Like I'd, I'd love to play this in 2035 and just ref reflect on this too, because it's like you're, I think people are almost gonna view your presence online in a similar way to like your net worth within the next 10 years.

Like that's how vital it's gonna be. Yeah. I couldn't agree more. I think too, to, just thinking about the podcast when we were first starting, you know, those decisions, like looking back, I'm like, I was obsessed with podcasting in college. It was one of the most important outlets for me to mm-hmm. Going through college.[00:25:00]

I think I was kind of like a decent student. I took college more seriously than most people I knew, but I didn't do as well as I probably should have, given the amount of effort I'd put in. But the thing that I felt best about was I had a natural curiosity for like, things that were going on, like I gravitated towards John, John d Loomis or John Lee Dumas's podcast Entrepreneurs on Fire.

I think it's John. Yeah, I think it's John Dumas, entrepreneurs on Fire. His podcast was incredible. Like 20 minute podcasts with all these different entrepreneurs. I absolutely loved his stuff. Listened to Tim Ferris regularly. Uh, listened to a few other podcasts very regularly, Rogan. And looking back, I'm realizing, I'm like, dude, I just like loved podcasting.

Mm-hmm. You know, like, so that, like what calculus wasn't going into the decision. I wasn't like, man, I really like, I'm dying to be associate, like someone like Tim Ferris or, you know, but I think that like. [00:26:00] Subconsciously that drove some of the decision. Yeah, and I, I think you liked podcasting too. I mean, it's part of your healing story.

Definitely. Like listening to that podcast. Yeah. Like Jocko, I listen, I remember listening to Jocko a bunch in college and obviously Rogan too. And I even remember like when I first started working and I was commuting for work and like Dr. Even driving in the car, just so would like always have some type of a podcast and just like constantly consuming information, getting new exposure to, to new people and different ideas around like health and wellness and just the world and politics in general.

And like, it's a lot of like these people that you've learned from virtually that you've never met have kinda like shaped our worldviews in a lot of ways and like opened up this whole gateway, which is ultimately why we're here. So it makes sense where it's like you, you absolutely love consuming it.

This thing has changed your life. Well now you have your own passion and niche you want to own. So yeah, you should do that through the same medium that you love to consume. You should create. I have a feeling. So you said that you growing up were like big into YouTube. Love it. Obsessed. Ditto. [00:27:00] Yeah. I think that once we start putting YouTube content out, we're both gonna be completely hooked in terms of like, wanting to just be more, you know, creators in the long form sense of putting out a 20 minute video that's, you know, our thoughts on health, your healing story, things like that.

I mean, podcasting is beautiful, but I, I do think that like YouTube, the visual component, the storytelling component, it crosses a different chasm. You're able to use more creative tools to tell the story. There's something beautiful about podcasting. Yes. Just listening to someone's conversation. I love that.

But then I also love, like, layering some of the, the visual things that you can do. I think YouTube's such a powerful platform. So that's a definitely, I'm gonna call, I'm gonna call a shot there. I think YouTube might be, might be next. Uh, I think the next frontier, YouTube is the next frontier, dude. I think so.

I spend the most time on YouTube out of any platform by far. I just, I know we've [00:28:00] had this conversation a million times, but I think that going from consumer to creator is so important and such a cool experience, but it's easy to like put the consumer hat back on and be more of a consumer than a creator.

So I do, I do think it's like, as we build noble, as we build the meme mafia, just continuing to put that creator hat on in different areas and just testing stuff out is, I think really important. Definitely. Yeah. It's a, it's a good lesson for business too. Like, like just reflecting on the ways that you, you know, what are the things that you like to eat?

How, you know, how are you actually like getting a lot of this content in just like analyzing your own. Consumption habits like that could be very formative towards the way that you put out your own content or the type of business that you create. Yeah. Like there's so many founders that we've talked to that even in CPG, that were like, Hey, I wish this thing, this like honey electrolyte gel existed.

So I just created it and it's crushing because thousands of other people wish that it existed too. Yeah. I think the answer is typically [00:29:00] not. It's extracting the truth instead of like adding to like, Hey, I need to go learn, or like, Hey, I need to go like create some new skillset. Mm-hmm. And then like the, then I'm gonna build a new product like you and I are, aren't starting a SaaS company, we're building a protein powder company because we've been consuming supplements.

Yes. We've been in the gym, we've been training for. Decades at this point. Mm-hmm. It's so obvious to us now looking backwards that we were supposed to be a part of this, we're supposed to be doing this stuff all along. And I do think that like the truth is typically just something that's being like extracted.

Definitely. It's more of an extraction process. Look, look, look for the clues in your past. I think that's like such a good, you know, such, such a good roadmap for what you should be doing in the future is just like, what, what are you naturally drawn to? Mm-hmm. What gets you excited? Definitely. Yeah. We, we definitely lose [00:30:00] those things a lot.

Like, I remember you saying back in 2022, like in another life you could have seen yourself being like a scientist almost, which I thought was so interesting. I don't even know if you remember saying that to me. Yeah, I brought that up a few times. Yeah. No, um, I think I would've forgotten about it if you, you brought it up once and I was like, yeah.

You know, I, I, I remember saying it, but I, I think it like left an impact on you, which is interesting and I do think that like, yeah, I just like, I really did always there, there was just a, a two, basically a two year period where I. Worked out with guys who truly understood biomechanics to, in a way that was advanced at the time.

But the way that they were, they were teaching it to me. They were imparting their knowledge. I, I mean, man, I was 16 learning from guys who basically had a PhD in how the body worked. And I was like, their Guinea pig. They were literally test, I was like, they were testing on me. Yeah. They were like testing new styles of workouts and I loved it.

And so like for me, [00:31:00] there was, there is probably a part of me that wants to go, like truly wants to go back and like just get more involved in, in uncover some more of that truth in my upbringing and in my past because there was such a natural, I mean I, dude, I lived at this gym, I was there. Whether it was just to like go after school, it would be like, buddy would say, Hey, you wanna hang out on Fridays?

Like, no, I'm, yeah. Going to, going to this gym whether I'm working out or just like foam rolling or stretching or talking to these guys and just learning about where they're getting their food from. I mean, like one of the guys got his eggs, his milk, his cheese from an Amish farm in Pennsylvania. Mm-hmm.

It's like these were like the, were the seeds of my interest were being planted. Definitely. Yeah. It's like you have these, uh, these like incredibly unique parts to you and a lot of these things, like God reveals those to you. Like when you're a kid or you're an adolescent and typically like society, higher education, you, you do get a beat out of you.

But like, that's where I think a lot of that's where like the real context clues are like, [00:32:00] what are the things that I really love to do as a kid? Or, or like, what are the things that I like to do that everyone else thought was crazy? Yeah. Like there's pro like that your secret sauce kind of lies in that stuff.

Yeah. Or like even now, like what are the things that you secretly love that everyone like that no one else. Like that no one else likes or thinks is weird. And like, like even with like, I've always, I've always been like, dude, I just love, um, like finding ways to get my foot in the door and building relationships and just like adding value to people and for no reason why.

Just like connecting people together. But then I also really like nutrition. It's like, oh, well that's materialized into like a business development role for our beef protein powder company. Noble, like this eclectic combination of characteristics. Like you can literally piece those things together in 2025 and have this like pretty darn cool thing.

Like anyone's capable of it. I really believe that. Totally. I couldn't agree more. Um, all right, I wanna shift a little bit. So going back, so we start the podcast month one. I remember first episode, [00:33:00] we record the files get lost. Brian Linsky first episode of the pod. We recorded it. No, no dice Riverside lost or something happened.

Did it really? Yeah. The whole thing. Whole thing. But then we, we, we rerecorded. Wow. Yeah. So that's crazy. We lose the first episode. That was our first test we passed. 'cause we kept going. I think we were recorded four episodes mm-hmm. In the first month. And then the second month we were just like, as hard as we possibly could, trying to record as many podcasts as we possibly could.

And I think the second month was the most important month in either of our careers in this whole entrepreneurial game. I would say, I think it was May, no, sorry, it was April. I think April, 2022 was the most important month that we've ever had as a podcast host, as entrepreneurs. I think it, that was the shift from like, okay, [00:34:00] we're gonna do this, maybe do this to, we're doing this.

Mm-hmm. And that was just kind of pushed us over the edge. Absolutely. And also. One of the benefits that we'd had was like, Twitter was almost like this fertile soil for the podcast. And what I mean by that is a lot of people start shows and then they're confused as to like why the show is not growing.

Yes. And it's like, well, you don't have, you're not, there's no distribution vehicle pushing anyone to listen towards your stuff. Yeah. And so it could be a, a combination of different things. But we had this like really engaged audience that was probably 50,000 plus at the time. So we would record our podcast and then we would just very simply organically post that to X.

And then our followers at X would be like, oh, I want to hear the way that these guys speak. I've only ever heard them write, let me hear them speak too. And, and then also where Twitter was so valuable, it was like the best, Twitter is still, it's the best networking tool that's ever existed. I think it ever will exist.

And we were having so much fun experimenting with like just different. Uh, combinations and ways to [00:35:00] get guests that we dreamed of on the podcast. Like, Hey, Harry's gonna DM this guy. Um, hey, Brett's going to comment on this one guy's post. And the likelihood that he'll see it is actually way higher than Instagram and some of these other platforms.

And like, boom, boom, boom. We just, we put together our list of our dream list of 50 plus podcast guests and we were just chipping the like one by one and it was like a dopamine hit every single time. And we've talked about this many times on the, on the show before, but so many people just underestimate the power of like, very politely asking for what you want.

And a lot of times that person might reciprocate, um, especially for something like a podcast, like just going about it the right way, you know, throwing in a sentence or two that really shows why you're invested in having that guest on the show and that you've really done your research before. And our hit rate was always very, very high doing that.

Dude, you're making me think about just some of the creative ways that we started to. Reach out to people, try to engage with people. I mean, we got marked assistant [00:36:00] on the show 'cause I was like, alright dude, this is gonna sound crazy, but I'm ordering a pair of his PVAs and I'm gonna just, I'm gonna post about the PVAs, tell him how much I love the product because I've told you this a million times, but I've got a little bit of a foot issue from wearing cleats my entire life.

Mm-hmm. So I'm like, alright man, I need these shoes anyways. I'm using these vibrams. Let me throw these out and get the pva. So I get the PVAs and love them. I'm walking around Austin with these, these new shoes on these toe shoes and end up tweeting at Mark saying, Hey man, these shoes are awesome. We'd love to have you on the podcast to talk about him.

He responds and yeah, we, you know, lo and behold, a month later he was in Austin. We have him on the show and we were crossing off our dream guest right there. Mm-hmm. Like, and that was within the first six months of the show. Was, was it six months? No, that was probably a year. That was later. It was a year.

That was a year. Yeah. First year of the show. I mean, we, we had our dream. Literally the guy that we identified as the guy that we wanted, this was [00:37:00] the guy that we wanted on the, on the podcast from the beginning, and we ended up getting him on the show within a year, which was really cool. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

There's just like this constant tinkering and experimentation with like, how you can get people's attention on social media and it's the only time where, um, we're, we're all connected. Like, you can put out content and tag someone and there is a, there's some likelihood or some possibility that they can actually see it and engage with you.

Yeah, a hundred percent. So we start the podcast, month two is absolutely incredible. I think we're just kind of in this lost creative pursuit. You're, uh, working your corporate job, you know, recording 2, 3, 4 podcasts a day, recording on the weekends. I'm at trying to figure out how to edit, try to make clips, you know, we're just like putting stuff out there.

Right. This is a full sling. Um, and, you know, eventually. We end up going from, 'cause at the time when we started the podcast, we're doing everything virtually. Mm-hmm. You were in your San Diego apartment, I [00:38:00] remember it was clear as yesterday. You were, you know, had that nice sunny, sunny glass window windows.

Four ceiling windows. And I was, uh, cooped up in, in, uh, my Austin dungeon. Yeah. And there was a turning point where you moved back to Austin and then we, we decided, hey, let's start doing an in-person podcast. Mm-hmm. And that was a turning point for us in the show because we kind of got, again, that taste of Wow, having somebody in the room with you is a totally different experience.

Yes. I mean, I remember virtual podcast, you and I would have a script of the podcast. This is before AI or anything. You and I are like putting a together, like these long list of questions for all these guests that we're having on. And we're going, all right, you take this one, I'll take this one. You take this one, I'll take this one.

We developed this kind of natural cadence of how we were gonna ask questions, which, which questions we were most interested in, which ones we gravitated to naturally. And um, then it was like, kinda like, all right time for the big leagues. Let's get some people, real people [00:39:00] butts in seats. Um, yeah. What do you remember about that time period?

Yeah, I think that would be encouraging for people to remind you that we had so much imposter syndrome or like fear of, or at least for me, like fear of being found out that we legitimately had a script to the point where it was like, Harry's gonna press record and then he's gonna say, Hey Brian, how's it going?

I, yeah. And then the guest was gonna respond and then Brett was gonna say the next thing, and then Harry was gonna lead off into the first question. Like, it was that it was that regimented out. Yeah. Right. Like if you, if you really want to like get a good laughing, go listen to one of our early episode.

Actually, maybe not, maybe don't, but, but yeah, we had it so scripted to the point where it was like robotic. It really did help us kinda just find a cadence and, you know, I still think, like starting a podcast is always like, there's some level of definitely, you know, all right, here we go, we're starting.

And it's like you just have to like start the conversation. Yeah, definitely. But, you know, I think that it is encouraging, you know, [00:40:00] going from, I mean, we have, we, we didn't know the technical side of the podcast. Mm-hmm. We still are figuring out how to do the technical side of the podcast and bring on the right people to help us figure it out.

But it's like, you know, that's one aspect of it. The one thing we, that we do know how to do is like, reach out to guests, build a relationship, have good conversation. Mm-hmm. And like that we felt confident in, but even just even designing the conversation so that you could do it virtually where it didn't sound too choppy was a challenge.

Yeah. I mean, how the, the graveyard for, uh, founders or potential podcasters or creators that never get started because they just over optimize on everything is crazy. Like, I've helped consult with so many people that. You know, they're the, the perfect recording software and the perfect microphone, and they're just worried about all these things and like, they still haven't gotten episode one off.

Yeah. And I think this should be encouraging too, like first 150 episodes were shot th via Zoom with the stock Mac camera footage, video camera on both of our [00:41:00] computers without a microphone edited, edited sounded. You're in a fish in iMovie. Yeah. Yeah. It sounded like you were in Apple. Listen into an old episode.

We need to go back through and enhance the audio. The audio could, could use some love. Yeah. We just use the mics on our, our laptops. Mm-hmm. But it truly, it is exactly what you're talking about as a true testament to just like, just get going, just build the momentum. People will still listen to the podcast.

And have you ever heard this analogy about the two, uh. The two, uh, potters, the two guys, there's two guys who make pots. One guy over 30 days, he only makes one pot. Then you have another guy who makes 30 pots. He makes one pot each day, and the goal at the end of it is to make the perfect pot. Mm. Which guy has the better pot by the end?

30 pots. 30 pots. And that's what we did with the pod, that I truly believe that's the right philosophy with the podcast. It, at least for someone who like, you know, is trying to figure it out, doesn't necessarily know what [00:42:00] direction they're fully going in. Which I think is exactly kind of the camp that we were in.

We were like, we wanna meet a lot of people. We wanna get our message out there. But like directionally, it just feels so far away. Mm-hmm. To get to where we feel like we want to kind of be. Yes. Like I, I don't even know if we would've said back then, like, do we want to have like a Joe Rogan style podcast?

Or do we want to have like a. Tim Ferris style podcast or like a huberman style podcast, or do we even wanna do this for more than six months? And it's like quickly become our mission. But I think we needed to like test some stuff out beforehand. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Reps and iterations build confidence. And speaking of that, to get back to your, your earlier question, like what, what was the feeling like recording the first episode in person?

I remember following Kyle Kingsbury for a long time, and that was the first guest that we'd ever had on. And so I, he followed me, dmd, him, asked him to come on the show. He said, yes. He said, let's do it at, you know, Aubrey's Ranch in Texas. We're like, this is incredible. That literally felt like the World Series.

Absolutely. [00:43:00] And, um, he had the setup so we didn't have to get the setup or anything. He had the cameras in the, in the microphones. And I just remember us being ready to record and it felt like. I just, I didn't even know what to say or what to do. I was so nervous and I felt at that point, I felt so good over Zoom where I felt like I could pretty much record with most people and I was like, oh my gosh, this is completely different.

Just navigating an in-person conversation, even though it's the, it's the same show, but in-person to virtual is an extremely different experience. It really is. Because, I mean, even with us, it's just like, I think you're, we don't give ourselves, we probably don't give ourselves enough credit in terms of our, just like the amount of reps that we've gotten in mm-hmm.

Over the last three years. And in, in person, you really do need to have a, a good read on just like how to, how to like navigate the conversation. How to like go deeper if you think someone's like. Not giving you [00:44:00] the full answer and like you want to get more depth from them on something like how to actually take a question a step further.

Yep. How to leave space in a conversation for like, you know, you ask a good question and then you have a follow up question. So it's like you're dealing with this co-host dynamic. You know, there's so many little things that you just don't even really think about when you're doing the podcast in person that Yeah.

I remember it took us a while to kind of find our cadence and we kind of, yeah. We never really had like a super comfortable setup, like until we were recording outta the Bitcoin comments, which was incredible. But like even, you know, before that it was like kind of on the road with this janky mic setup.

You know, I'm thinking about like our conversation with Sam Moffitt at a Shirttail Creek farm. It's like we just have this like little audio adapter. Mm-hmm. We have a camera that's, you know, recording from the side, and then we have these like janky headsets that we're speaking into. And it's like not necessarily the most comfortable setup to have a good conversation.

But, you know, looking back, I mean. Those combos. I [00:45:00] mean, think about like our conversation with Adam Curry. What a legendary moment that was for us. Just being able to like, sit down with him for like two hours and just have a combo. Yeah. I remember there were like, when we first had those headsets, before we really optimized our experience, we were, we were going out to the guest a lot of the time to make it as easy as possible for them.

How much fun was that? It was so much fun. It just felt like you were on this like never ending road trip and the excitement of going, it's a journey out there. A journey. And Adam Curry was a big guest for us for a number of different reasons, like obviously the, the respect and the reverence over the guy that created podcasting.

Yeah. Um, and he's just such an amazing person. But what I was gonna say was, I remember the, the audio wasn't great with him. There were a few other shows, but what was almost more important than the episode was like the connection, the relationship that you build with, with that guest. A hundred percent that matters.

Way more, that materializes down the road in ways that you can't even see, especially with a lot of the people that we were having on the show, being from Austin. I mean, how many. What a unique experience having f [00:46:00] follow up relationship with someone like Adam Curry, who, I mean, he's really, he's invested a lot into our relationship for somebody who otherwise, like, you know, why Adam Curry would spend, you know, a dinner with us Yeah.

Is like, you know, he, he's like doing his thing. Yeah. He's, he's comfortable doing his thing and he's just like such an incredible guy that he wants to invest into younger guys and be on their show and willing to, you know, hear us out and hear all the questions we have. And he like, keeps up with us, which is really cool.

So, yeah, I think like that, that was a really big turning point. I think just like those moments of us going out to guess, there was something really fun about the experience of it not being like us, not having a studio, us not having it all perfectly worked out and them just like. Them being willing to like work with us and not, and for it to not be some like overly produced thing.

Like now I look at a lot of [00:47:00] podcasts that are being, that are being made and it's like, there's like basically two camps. There's like the gritty, Hey, we're gonna do a virtual setup. And you know, it's, it's, it'll look good and we're gonna do it on Riverside, it'll look great. And then we have another one where it's like, it looks like a movie.

Mm-hmm. Like it's being shot, you know, in 20 k. And you know, they're spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on that production quality. It's like, yes, it's insane. So there's something fun about it, kind of just being like, Hey, we're just two guys trying to figure this out. We got a little audio recorder.

I don't even know what it is. I don't even really know how it works. But plug our mics in here and it records and then we just like press record on the camera and. Hope for a great conversation. Yeah. Yeah. Your little brother. A lot of times, Ray, shout out Reagan, he was like our producer for a lot of this stuff, just helping to make sure that the cameras were properly recording and the mics were set up.

But to your point as well, I think people really underestimate the potency of just youthful energy and passion and how drawn, like, how just compelling that is to a lot of people. Just seeing, it doesn't even matter the [00:48:00] field that you're in, but just seeing this like youthful energy going towards the thing that they're, that they believe their life's mission to be.

Um, it's extremely compelling and people are like very, you'd be surprised at how many people want to help those people that are youthful and they're passionate and they're just going after the thing. Um, and I think what one of the things that we were trying to capitalize on is. Because we were really just trying to continue to punch above our weight with the guests that we were getting, which is something that I think you and I are both really proud of, especially those early days.

And then how do we take the reasons for someone to say no off the table? Yeah. Like someone like Adam, who's in Fredericksburg, that's an hour and a half to get into Austin. We had met him once. We had a good conversation. He was still kind of learning about us. We're like, dude, we're just gonna, we'll just drive out to your house and we'll bring a, a janky little setup and we'll, we'll buy all the equipment and just figure it out.

And like, how do you just like the per, and that's a good lesson for any aspect of business, someone that you're trying to work with or build a relationship with. How do you take those reasons for them to say no off the table? [00:49:00] Yeah. Yeah. Give, don't give him a, not, not in a. Aggressive way, but don't give him a choice.

Get like, yeah. Just make it as, as hard for them to say no as possible. Definitely. Like Taylor Collins from Epic Bar, of course of nature, he's obviously like a, a hero of ours. That was one of the best conversations ever. Yeah. And when we first went to that Rome Ranch, bison Harvest, we were like, we, he was just like one of those guys where like, I think he was a top three guy.

He was up there with Sisson, where Harry and I just said, we need to get this guy on the podcast. And him and Katie are, you know, they have this beautiful life out in, uh, out in Fredericksburg at the ranch, and they're, they're private people and you know, we were able to, to be be like, Hey man, we'll just come out to your ranch and we'll, we'll do a virtual podcast.

At that point, this was pre Adam Curry. We hadn't even bought podcast equipment yet. So by the great, by the grace of God, our buddy CJ had a full, um, virtual equipment set up that, and he came out to us, took off work and helped us set this thing up. So shout out cj, shout out CJ Finley. What a legend. Yes. I mean, yeah, it's, [00:50:00] it's one of the cool things about Austin just getting here and.

I don't, it's just like, it's hard for me to decide for, whether it's Austen or, or just the entrepreneurial scene in general, but like the willingness to help out. Like he just, he was like, yo, I'm there. I'm gonna help you set up the cameras. I'm gonna bring the equipment. And he was there, dude. And honestly, that was like a massive episode for us.

I look back and, you know, look at that episode as like one of the most important ones that we recorded at the time. Mm-hmm. And still to this day. Absolutely. Um, dude, it's crazy to think about how much, you know, things have changed since we started the podcast like three years ago. We were entirely different people.

Mm-hmm. And I feel like our show in the topics that we talk about, reflect that a lot. Definitely like. There was a period where I feel like we had a lot of founders on, we talked a lot about entrepreneurship. We've now started to talk a lot more about our faith and our faith journey and just how that's formed us.

And it's cool thinking about the things [00:51:00] that have formed us. Have, we, we really haven't like, like, like some, some other people's podcast. You know, I think about like, you know, not to knock anyone but like Max Luve or like some of these other health and wellness influencers. It's like they just stayed committed to one angle and I feel like we've kind of willingly just like let there be some creative drift that could be at like our own demise to, to some extent.

So like I could, you know, totally hear someone say like, yeah, that's like not that smart. Like you didn't stay in the category that you guys grew in. But I do just think we have both been on this really, uh, unique journey of like, the show kind of started on accident and then we also started Noble. And we've both been deepening in our faith in ways.

And I think those are probably the two topics that have been incorporated so much more heavily. And, uh, yeah. I'm curious, like, just hear from your standpoint, like just the change that's happened, like through the show. Like what, what have you experienced as a, just a [00:52:00] man? Like how has the show changed you?

Mm. It's a really good question, man. I, I would, I would say, I think I'm still trying to, like, if I'm being fully transparent, I'm still trying to find my footing with the podcast and where we can take this thing because the, the health and wellness space since we've started has just become unbelievably saturated the last couple years, which is incredible.

Like this alternative health movement has grown from being this fringe thing to like probably being the catalyst as to like why the election materialized the way that it did, which is so incredible. And when we started the show, there was this very clear. Void of being the informed consumer that's giving out like simplicity of information.

And I actually think that is, like, it's kind of rounded back to being like, I think that actually that voice is, is probably more important than ever before. Like just that simple voice, like helping people pull really big levers. But you know, a lot of the [00:53:00] content that we were so focused on in the beginning, I'm not as passionate as I used to be.

And I think there's kind of, there's with creation, there's like almost two ends of the spectrum where one is you can just pick your lane and that just says your lane until the day that you die and you just stay consistent and people know you for that thing. It's probably like probably the the easiest path to grow.

And I have so much respect for those people. And there's also these creators that just continue to evolve and shift into new interests and they just like pull their audience along for the ride. And I think that's the arc in the chapter that we're on right now. But I mean, man. We've probably used the, the term that the, you know, podcast has been the engine to everything that we've, that we've done like 10,000 times since we started the show, because it's so true.

There's just something about sharing your thoughts through a microphone onto the internet with people that you wanna sit down with, like the serendipity and the opportunity that just comes from that is amazing. Like, nothing. There's so many things that I'm proud of because of this [00:54:00] show, but like, you know, just the, I remember just nerves and uncertainty and ability to speak and hold conversation and build relationships and, um, the opportunities that it's unlocked.

Like it's been, you know, it's really been the catalyst for everything. And so I just have so much in res reverence and respect and episodes. Like honestly, the, now the most fun that I have is honestly just when we're. We're just kind of sitting down and just chopping it up about life, almost like a, like a vlog style content.

We, we go back to what you said before around create the way that you like to consume. I love log style content, and I think it's very easy to have imposter syndrome and say to yourself, well, like, what learnings do I really have to share that could be valuable for people? And you underestimate the space that you're in, um, the adversity that you're experiencing.

Just being able to talk through those things and solutions that you were able to implement that helped you overcome some of that adversity. Just how valuable that is for a lot of people. So, dude, yeah. Well said. Yeah. I, I feel like, [00:55:00] yeah, the humility and just being willing to evolve too and know that, you know, sometimes you do face seasons of, you know, that thing working and then you're just like ready for a new chapter, new season.

And I think like what was unique about early on is like the early on niche alternative health space. It's like completely ma mature to the point where like everyone's kind of now just like saying the same things on repeat. Mm-hmm. And like, it just feels, I don't even know if saturated is the right word.

It just feels kind of nauseating. Yeah. Um, where it's like, it is, there is like a lot of like good information out there, but I just, I feel like it's being communicated in a way that's like, it just is a lot. Mm-hmm. Like, you know, it kinda makes me like, ah, I just like don't really want to like, I don't wanna like be involved with content like this.

Um, but I do like, I mean the topics are still deeply like, rooted in near to my heart. Yes. And they're important to me, but I just feel like we're kind [00:56:00] of going through a season of like, man, there's just like a lot of kind of just people getting involved in Yes. Making the face the space feel a little bit, um.

Not as novel. Um, which is fine. I think it's like part of the, part of the process and part of the experience. Definitely. Um, there's been a few moments in our, the history of our show that I wanna go back to. Um, number one was the, the road trip that we went on mm-hmm. And the road trip from Austin to dc.

We've talked about this a few times on the show, but we, we decide to drive back. You know, I just wanna tell this story from the beginning. 'cause it, it's a great, it's a great story for anyone who's just thinking about like, Hey, let's just like do something fun, creative, and just like put a project together that doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but we're just gonna have a bunch of fun doing it.

So you, me, Casey, our good friend and his girlfriend, Isabella Sonny, my dog pack up into my brother's [00:57:00] car and we drive from Austin to Washington, DC Over an eight day period, we record nine podcasts. Um, we stop at counterculture farms. Mm-hmm. Uh, in East Texas, which is an incredible farm run by, uh, Austin Dillon.

And then we stop in, uh, Bluffton, Georgia to record a podcast that was long overdue with Will Harris. Yeah. The legend. And then we're leaving Bluffton, Georgia and we're like, stop. We're stopping in Nashville for one reason and one reason only, which is to record with Michael Chandler. Mm-hmm. And we're not totally sure if we're gonna be able to record this podcast episode with him hours before we're supposed to record.

Do you remember? Yeah. I mean that whole experience the week, the week before we left, we were sitting at a barbecue joint. It was you, me and your brother Reagan. And, um, I saw that Michael Chandler. Who, one of our favorite fighters, just unbelievable human being. He was working with, uh, the brand carnivore [00:58:00] crisps.

And we knew that like the road trip would kind of bring us through Nashville if we wanted to go that way. Like how incredible would that be if is there a chance that we could get Michael Chandler on the podcast? So I reach out to Carnivore Crisps, they're like, we can't intro you directly to him, but he's actually really responsive to his dms, you know, sent him a really nice message.

He responds immediately saying like, yes, I'd love to do it. And then the problem is that literally from, from that point until the day before we were about to drive through Nashville, he didn't answer any of our other dms. So we were like, we're literally sitting there being like, are we doing this or are we not doing this?

Well, we have to prep just in case he says yes. And then we sent him like one final DM, like 9:00 PM the night before and he accepted it for like the next morning at 8:00 AM. Um, and also we. Needed to fly out our videographer. Oh my gosh. To do the audio video work. Legend. Legend. Um, 'cause the studio we were recording at didn't have any of the audio and video.

Yes. So we had to, we had to make the gut call of like, should we book, should we buy his flights or not? We don't even know if the guy's gonna record [00:59:00] it. Are we gonna fly this guy out to our videographer out to Nashville for nothing? And then by the grace of God, he responded and, um, just being like, oh my gosh, I can't believe we're gonna record with him.

And watching him like pull up outta that black Escalade, one of our favorite athletes of all time, shaking his hands, sitting down with him. I was nervous. I remember being really nervous for that episode. Really? Yeah. Just 'cause you had watched so much of his career and just knew, kind of, just knew the caliber of person he was.

Yeah. And just like the, you know, just the feeling of like sitting across from him with microphones on, you know, Hey, I wanna be able to pull a great interview outta this person and not be like a, a carbon copy of all the other podcasts that he's done. Just like that internal pressure, you know? Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, you, looking back, it would be so easy for us to just feel like we have no reason to be in that room. Mm-hmm. I mean, which we pro realistically, we probably didn't have any reason. Yeah. I mean, we, we were less than a year into the show mm-hmm. Had recorded a lot of good podcasts, but I mean, for the most part it was still kind of like transitioning [01:00:00] from like, man, you guys are like, just kind of piecing this thing together.

Yes. So, yeah, it was, it, that was such an eye-opening experience too. Just, I mean, that's literally someone that I've stayed up until 1:00 AM watching him fight. Yes. Like, I've stayed up late to watch him fight and now I'm sitting there in his beautiful studio in Nashville, um, getting ready to have like a two hour conversation with him.

Yes. About all of like, his fighting career, his faith, his relationship with his wife, his, his family, like adopting his kids, like mm-hmm. There were so many layers to that conversation where I was like, man, like this, this is like one of the coolest people that we could possibly get on the show. Yeah. Like, he's just lived such a cool life.

Yeah. That was one of those moments where you're like. Like where you just say to yourself humbly, you're like, we're doing the damn thing. Oh yeah. You know? Yeah. So we recorded with Michael, we recorded with uh, Robert Breed. Love, love. That was second time coming on the show. Yeah. Dr. Brittany Ettrick, who was like, that was a sneaky, incredible episode.

One of the best. She's amazing, dude. One of the best. Um, and then we drove up a little bit [01:01:00] further to Shenandoah Polyface Farms, Joel Ton Legend. Yes. And then we finished, and that was the second time we were recorded with him. Yes. Which was really cool. 'cause the first time we got so much good feedback on that first episode with Joel Satan and that guy, I mean, he's a prolific writer.

Mm-hmm. He's an amazing farmer. He's a complete rebel and he is pushed back against the big, big food and just, you know, corporations getting into food and making it more difficult for farmers to actually have a voice and mm-hmm. Do their thing to make people healthy. And he's done an amazing job, like pushing back and creating a voice for farmers.

And so sitting across the table from him in person. That for me was like, I can't believe we're actually sitting here. Definitely and Will, I mean dude, that conversation with Will was so cool. Yeah. Him, you know, afterwards saying, you know, complimenting us and just saying, you know, that was one of my favorite conversations and I don't think he was just, you know, inflating our egos or [01:02:00] I don't think he was just talking to talk and it was just like, man, this is such a cool experience.

That eight day period the people we got to talk to was so incredible. Yeah. Well like to be blunt, I mean this in a humble way, like what he said, he directly said he is like, you know, I've been on all these massive podcasts. I was on Rogan's podcast a couple months ago. He goes like, you guys are just as good as interviewing.

And I enjoyed this podcast just as much, if not more. Um, and obviously like we'd made the intention to actually go out to his ranch, which was really important 'cause you truly. See the magic of White Oak and just see how comfortable he is. We were literally, we interviewed him at the Pawn house, which is this awesome, um, space that you can actually stay at at White Oak, which is where him and his wife lived in the seventies, right.

When they had first gotten married. But like, just these like magical moments that just reaffirm you as like, you know, first time founders and podcasters. I was like, all right. We're like, we're in the game. Like we can be just as good as any of these other people. We just have to keep going. Totally. And I remember [01:03:00] you almost forgot the, the SD card.

Almost forgot the s st dude. I mean, that would've been like the worst thing ever. Ended up finding it, uh, posted it like four months late, but did praise God. Yeah, yeah, exactly. You would've literally killed me. Um, dude. But then I remember we had like Casey recording us like beforehand on like this camcorder that he had.

I remember seeing it, seeing this video. I think it was like buried on YouTube of just you and me sitting on the couch, like pre or post podcast and it looked like. It looked like someone's, like middle school project when they first invented camcorders. Just like, just, just so poorly done. Like no thought about execution at all.

But it honestly, like, looking back, it made me really appreciate it. 'cause we were just like, dude, let's just like, just try to like capture this. Try and just try to like grit through it and just make it happen on our own and do like piece together something. Yes. And so, yeah dude, I, I truly think [01:04:00] like that trip was transformative for us and such a cool creative project to do with you as we're like really kind of getting our grips on the show.

And you had just about move back to Austin at that point I think. No, I was, because we were living in Bastrop at that point. Oh yeah, we were. Yeah. Yeah. And then we finished it with, um, Dr. Brooke Miller. Yes. And Joe Manly. And Joe Manly on their ranch in Virginia. Yeah. Which was unbelievable. Had an incredible dinner with them.

Two amazing podcasts. That family there. They're the best family. Like legitimately like Matt, Amanda, Dr. Brooke, his wife Joe. Like they're top to the bottom. They're literally the best people. A hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. There's something about just like so much intensity in eight days. Mm-hmm. Two, like I remember, I remember I was, I had reached out to Carnivore Bar and wanted to do like a seven day carnival carnivore bar.

Fast, fast. So I ate, I ate only carnivore bars for the whole entire road trip. Did you actually though? I did. You didn't cheat at [01:05:00] all, dude, that's incredible. Only carnivore bars. And so I remember when we were going to Michael Chandler to the Michael Chandler interview, I was in such a deep state of ketosis from being these for only eating carnival bars.

'cause they're so fatties. Yeah, dude. I was like. I don't know. I felt like I was like seen through the walls. Like in Austin, my, my mind, my head space was just so wild. And you drove every mile of that trip. You drove the entire way from Austin, Texas, all the way up to Virginia. Eight days. It was unbelievable.

Passport guy.

Man. I just remember thinking it's hard to like the, there are these moments that just feel like this, like, uh, like a time capsule almost. Yeah. Just like from the, from the start to the end of that trip and just like seeing so much of the country too through that and just the conversations that we had and then just going home and resetting for, for Christmas break for a couple weeks and then heading back to Austin to like continue the work.

It [01:06:00] was, uh, yeah, it's like just bringing up so much emotion as I, as I'm just talking about it. Yeah. Okay. And so kind of at the same time, like something amazing happened where we go, and this is kind of tying a story back. We were talking about Adam Curry. Curry earlier. We're lucky enough to, we're fortunate enough to go out to Adam Curry's house for dinner the next day.

He's on Joe Rogan. He happens to shout us out on Joe Rogan's podcast. The Meat Mafia gets shouted out on Joe Rogan. And you and I are sitting there in the Bastrop house. I think both of our phones like blew up. They're like, yes, yo, you guys just got it. You guys just got shouted out on Joe Rogan. Mm-hmm.

And you and I were just like, what? What? Like, that's crazy. Yeah. It's, uh, I don't know, I don't know how to describe the moment, but you're like, it's like the New York Yankees of podcasting, you know what I mean? Like the, the, and we, we had dinner with him and his wife Tina, the night before, and they're, they're literally the most hospitable, incredible people.

Their [01:07:00] marriage is amazing. Their walk with the Lord is amazing. They're just very good. Like, honestly like mentors and role models to us. And we just like, just shout out Adam and Tina. They're, they're the best people. And I remember when we had dinner with them 'cause he was always very passionate and so helpful and like really interested in the stuff that we were doing, which always was such a confidence boost being like, I can't believe Adam is so supportive and really believes in our vision.

Yeah. And there's always Yeah. Really to help us and like, yeah, the way he would tell us stories. It wasn't like self-aggrandizing where it was like, look at all this stuff. It was like, it was kind of just like, uh, him letting us like peer through his eyes, like what he's done and what a future in like podcasting can look like.

Yes. You know, I feel like it was, it was always coming from this place of like mentorship and inspiring us. Definitely. Such a cool guy. Yes. And I think he, that was probably maybe his fourth or fifth appearance on Rogan. Um, 'cause they just hit it off in the middle of COVID and he had Adam on the show all the time.

And so of course in the back of your mind you're like, well we're doing some pretty interesting stuff in the health and wellness space. [01:08:00] Adam's really immersed himself in it. We just had dinner with him. Maybe somehow like that would, that would come up in the conversation. You would, you would literally never say that to him at the dinner table, right?

Yeah. Yeah. But I remember like in the back of your mind, you're obviously thinking about like, oh my gosh, I can't believe he's about to go on Joe's show the next day. Yeah. Um, and then lo and behold that, yeah, that had happened and that was a, yeah, that was definitely a surreal moment for sure. Yeah. Yeah.

And I got looped into your ulcerative colitis story. Yeah. He botched the story a bit, which is totally fine. No, it's all good. We, we, we essentially both had, uh, bleeding rectums on Joe Rob's podcast. Blast it to 10 million people probably. Yeah. I mean, I just remember sitting in the kitchen and Bastrop like watching that.

'cause there was a lot of different things happening at that time. And I, I remember at the time, what's the AI tool called? There was an AI tool that had just launched and I was just like obsessing over it. I just remember doing work in this AI tool [01:09:00] for like hours and then, or for like an hour or two in the morning.

And then you, I think, heard about that happening. You heard that, Hey bro, we just got shouted out on Rogan and we go listen to it and we watch it. And I think both of us were Bruce pretty much like, I can't really believe that this is actually happening. Yes. Um, which, you know, I think as you're going through the process, it's just so exciting.

Like thinking and looking back at these moments that, you know, kind of just establish your faith in what you're doing and solidify like, all right, you know, there's some legitimacy to all the different trips that we've gone on. You know, traveling to Idaho to speak at a Bitcoin conference about beef, traveling to Jason Rick's ranch in Colorado to talk about health and going to all these different obscure events that ultimately led into us like just like.

Making something happen. Yeah. Which was, yeah, I look back at that period, it's like so much fun. Yeah. I remember thinking to myself, 'cause that was [01:10:00] like early-ish, 2023. Yeah. Thinking to myself like, man, like, like two guys off the couch started this thing a little over a year ago and then, you know, a year later we're, we're getting mentioned on Rogan's podcast.

Like, you know, you know, what else is, what else is capable? And anyone with the right vision and the right intensity and the willingness to sacrifice, like things are what we can do is pretty, pretty amazing. Totally. All right. One other, one other memory that I wanted to bring up was, uh, your ability to get guests is incredible, but the one that.

The one that's still to this day I'm amazed at is Adrian Grier, the, the actor from Entourage. Vinny Chase. Vinny Chase. So we meet, we meet Vinny Chase out at Rome Ranch for the first time. My younger brother, Reagan, is in the middle of eating his first bison testicle, and he looks to his right. And Vinny Chase is standing there and he didn't know who he was because Reagan's 25.

So he, well, at the time he was like 22. Yeah. So he's, he's the generation that didn't really grow up watching [01:11:00] Entourage. Yeah. But if you're like really like 29, 30 and older, literally anyone over entourage. Yeah. Yeah. Should know the show Entourage. Yeah. Yep. But we're at a Rome ranch, this amazing property that our two friends own, and there's like this bison harvest going on and this really cool experience that we're all getting to be a part of.

And lo and behold, Adrian Grier there and I remember him. Seeing him being like, whoa, this is like crazy. That, you know, we're kind of like just getting our, getting, getting started. We're at an event like this really cool, really powerful, solidifying our faith in what we're doing again. And then he's like getting up to leave.

And I think somebody said, Hey, you gotta like meet the meat mafia guys. They're doing stuff that you'd be interested in. 'cause Adrian had just started his farm out, out, uh, in East Texas. And, um, [01:12:00] he, he's like, yeah, you know, like, let's do something. That'd be great. Mm-hmm. But then you, like, I just remember you like the way you are, the way you're wired.

It's like, once that Yes is said, you're like, all right. Like, I'm gonna make sure this happens. Which is such an incredible trait and I think like it's led to a lot of success for us. But that story in itself. Was amazing. Just, I don't know, I think about that like such a cool guest. I probably, I could put on a full play from episode one to the, to the finale of Entourage and recite every single line.

I've probably seen it like literally five times. It's just, it's one of those shows. It's 25 minutes. It's so entertaining. There's so much heart, like it's just such a magical show. What's your favorite line? There's so many good lines. Anything Ari Gold or drama said, it's probably not politically correct.

Yeah, so I won't say it, but the one that always gets me laughing, you definitely can't say on the show. My fear has always just been, I, I genuinely believe that we all put, we all, we all get opportunities where [01:13:00] you're in the right room with the right people. And I absolutely despise those moments where I'm in the right room with the right people and I just don't take advantage of the opportunity that's there.

And. I had heard that he had really immersed himself in the regenerative act space and had left Hollywood and said no to acting and had really just planted roots in central Texas. And so like, yeah, we get introduced and you know, we threw out the concept of him going on the podcast. So just got his number and you know, we were exchanging texts a few times and he was another guy where he was a little bit hard to pin down and then he was like, Hey, I'm gonna be downtown at this time tomorrow.

Can you do that for an episode? And it was like, I remember we had a full plate that day, moved everything around. Um, got Jose again to be able to commit to be able to do that. He canceled a big doctor's appointment for that, so shout out to him. Just he's absolute legend, like was the lifeblood of the show, truly at that point.

And, um, yeah, sit sitting down with, uh, Vinny Chase from Entourage and it was a [01:14:00] pretty damn good conversation. Dude, that convo was incredible. I remember just being stunned that. Yeah, like we're talking to Vinny Chase and he's talking about not semen retention, he's talking about semen retention and celibacy and this whole new life that he had.

And it's like this guy is portrayed on, like he's portrayed in Entourage as the guy who's hooking up with every girl. He's the biggest playboy there possibly is. And then he comes on the Meet Mafia podcast and he's talking about celibacy and semen retention and all the things. And that clip went nuclear viral.

Yes. Uh, it was so funny, just like sitting there and you're like, wow, this guy is just seemingly living an entirely different life than what you would expect. Definitely. I have a, I actually remember we were in Colorado. We had, we had flown out to Colorado shortly after to record with Eric Hinman. That was the first time we'd ever met Eric.

Um, and I remember seeing you. In the car, just like you were like tinkering for like [01:15:00] an hour and a half on your phone. And I'm like, what the hell is this guy doing over there? Like, 'cause you're always tinkering and you're so good at creating content pieces and stuff. I'm like, I know he is working on something.

And it was that clip where he talked about semen retention and you invited him to collab on the clip and the thing went nuts. It was the most viral piece of content he'd ever shared. Um, there were other accounts that talked about semen retention on YouTube that repost it, that have millions of views from that episode.

And then, uh, the entourage creator Doug Ellen has a, they have a big podcast about entourage with, uh, like Kevin Dylan and I remember them talking about, I remember listening to an episode and they were talking about that clip and they brought it up to Adrian gr Renee when he went on the show. Yeah. Like that was like a focal point of it.

And I remember thinking to myself like, this is so crazy that we're like kind of like poking and making a dent. I don't know. Yeah. We're like in the atmosphere of. You know, things that are happening in that world, which, you know, it's like, [01:16:00] I don't really know anything about, about any of those shows, but it's like these people are attracting a lot of attention with like, the things that they've done.

Yeah. They've had established careers in Hollywood. They're talking about cool things and they're bringing up the fact that Vinny Chase is on the Meat Mafia podcast. Yeah. Talking about senior retention. That's wild. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I just, um, I remember like just sitting in that front seat being like, this clip is gonna be so good.

And just like, not, not being able to speak because I was just so focused on making the Yes. And it worked. Yeah. It's wild, man. It's been such a fun ride. I feel like we could probably talk all day about all the different stories. Is there any, are there any stories that stand out to you as just like, I don't know, highlights of the podcast that people maybe haven't heard or haven't heard about?

Man, I think it's more so just a feeling of. I, I think a lot about this, uh, deja ru quote where he says either, like, for the things that you want either increase sacrifice or decrease [01:17:00] desire. Mm-hmm. And I think a lot about like just the yeses and the things that we were willing to say yes to. Like the, the coffee meetings, the dinners, the events.

Um, probably 30 plus trips all over the country, spending thousands of dollars buying tickets, just like, just under this, um, this overall vision of like, if we just keep putting ourselves in the right room, like we know we have something special, we just have to meet the right people and like, just kind of pull them into, into our vision and our world.

And it's gonna like just help propel everything forward and we're gonna have what we want. And, um, yeah. I'm trying to think if there's any. Stories. It's, it's, it's just more of that feeling though. Mm. It feels very rustic and it feels very bootstrapped and, uh, it makes me feel proud too, to be honest with you.

Yeah, likewise. I feel like what's coming to mind for me too is just like this visualization of, you know, the last three years has been, it's been the most fun, the most challenging, the most sacrifice that I've ever had to make. Personally, from [01:18:00] both a, uh, personal reputation wise, just putting ourselves out there, you know, being bold, being courageous, trying to make something from nothing.

And then also from like a financial standpoint, from a, uh, comfort standpoint, just the, the most sacrifice that. I've ever made in my life. Not saying that to like, you know, toot my own horn, but it's just like, or toot our horns. But it's just like, it's this period of looking back and being like, man, we, we kind of went for it, man.

And like, it hasn't worked out perfectly. But I do think that the visualization that comes to mind is just roots being developed, like a root system, a bamboo root system being developed, and how long it takes those roots to be established before they actually start growing up. And I still feel like you and I have this feeling that we were just kind of, we're like in this laundry machine, just like this little pearl that's being ma like just softened and perfected.

And I think that that craft of [01:19:00] just wanting to be perfected and being patient and wanting your, your, your artwork and your creative output to just be right. Mm-hmm. Before it has that moment of like, all right, like something big happens. And I think we've had amazing big things happen on the show, but I just, yeah.

I feel like we've just been in this period where we're. Being formed. Yes. And I think that that period of being formed is just, it's so exciting because it really shows that, you know, there's just constant levels, constant iterations, constant growth that is being compounded and stacked on itself. And you see the moments where you're like, Hmm, it feels like we're gonna be able to stack a chip here.

And it's like, not gonna feel like a crazy, you know, a crazy thing to envision, you know? Mm-hmm. Being on this big show, or, you know, having this big guest here in the future. Definitely. Definitely. Like, I think like we're kind of establishing, you know, what the, what the next step is gonna be. But I do really feel like we're like really ready to [01:20:00] take off, which is exciting.

Yeah. There's a feeling in the air of like, gearing up for like a second big arc and like, let's be clear, right? Like this, the show right now, it's still like. Like small, medium sized show. Like I'm not the guy that that can tell you how to grow your podcast, do a hundred thousand downloads a month or 500,000.

Like we have never done that before. But I think the premise of this podcast is like just kind of connecting the dots and putting the puzzle pieces together of just like these anecdotes and stories of things that occurred the, you know, the first couple years of like our baby's existence to get it to this point that have really gotten us in the game where it's like you might even be flatlining in between your first and your second arc, but the fact that you're in the game to even be able to get to that second arc is so important and that there's so many people that.

For whatever reason, you, you know, you create these artificial limitations or this resistance pops up and you never get into the game to begin with. So like, hopefully this conversation is just a, a breath of fresh air. Like, just a reminder of like all these crazy, scrappy things that we did and we just like, just piece it [01:21:00] together and chipped away.

And, you know, I just hope that the person in that listenings that's just takes a little bit of something from it to like apply that towards like their own version of the Meat Mafia in your own life. Whatever that looks like to you. Yeah. Yeah. If it gives anyone any confidence, you know, you're listening to two guys who quit their corporate jobs to start a podcast about meat.

Mm-hmm. So, or you know, not meat anymore, but Yeah. Yeah. Just go do the thing. Yeah. But it's all been so worth. It doesn't, doesn't need to be perfect. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Well, this has been a great man. I appreciate you coming on and, uh, chopping up the old podcast stories with me and, uh, reminiscing about the past.

I feel like this was, this was a much needed conversation for us, just thinking about what we want to do in the future. And I, I really do hope that like we have a lot more of those individual podcasts where you sit down, you're looking at a camera. Mm-hmm. I'm not on the show, there's no guess. It's just Brett talking about a topic that you're passionate about, and then there's versions of that with me.

And I do just feel like, yeah. For, you know, for the, [01:22:00] the betterment of the show, for the betterment of our own creative pursuit and energy, like there's gonna be so much good stuff that comes from that. Definitely, man. Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate you f facilitate facilitating this and um, I'm very excited. I'm pumped.

Alright brother. God bless. Peace.