#421 Brett & Harry: Lessons in Food, Health & Building Noble Origins

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So when did you decide like, all right, let me show face. Little was a eager also why anonymous? Yeah, it was. It's a great question. Oh, we're species that doesn't understand what we should be eating. Like, you know, I think like a lot of people fall for the vegan trap. Every podcast I listen to was about literally animal protein making you have cancer.

No one wants to see animals get killed. What do you guys think are the biggest challenges you had to overcome? It's just a staircase and like you need to just focus on the next step and the next step and the next step. Do have you ever heard of like the Dirty Dozen, what do you guys think are the biggest myths around red meat?

Do you think that like carnivore is a trend? Oh man, that's such a good question. Alright you guys, welcome to another podcast. We got Harry GR and Brett Ender entrepreneurs and founders of Nova Protein and Meat Mafia, and we're so excited to have you guys. Thank you for having us. Thanks for having us.

Dynamic duo. Dynamic [00:01:00] duo. Literally there's a lot of power in this room. Yeah. There is a lot of power. We need to ask you, obviously we know a little bit about how you met, but how did you guys get to starting this journey together? Like how did you guys think that you guys were good partners and tell us a little bit about how you got into it.

Yeah, so Brett and I met in college at Babon, uh, woo. Believers go be her. Um, I was a year, actually a year older than Brett, so we both played baseball and, um, I had stopped playing my sophomore year, so when Brett transferred in there wasn't much overlap, didn't really get to meet him. We met my senior year, hit it off, but like, you know, like college and post-college, I was like, you kind of go your separate ways.

And I stayed in Boston, was working in real estate. Brett moved to New York after graduating and like we quickly like just didn't really have that, that connection point. Um, and so it wasn't until like five years after, uh. We graduated that we reconnected. That's crazy. Yeah. Wait, how did you guys reconnect?

Harry's roommate was actually one of my really good friends from Babson. So I would go visit him and then I would see Harry. [00:02:00] And Harry was just one of those friends where when we would spend time together, I'm like, he's doing like paleo diet, carnivore diet, he's interested in endurance sports. Seems like we have a lot of really similar interests.

And then, um, Harry was living up in Boston. I ended up moving to New York after graduating, and we both just kind of, we kind of fell into that, that corporate rut of doing the nine to five doing really well for guys that were in their mid to late twenties. But I think a lot of people our age, um, they just, they feel like something is missing and they don't know what it is.

And I think for both of us, it was like this fear of just not really tapping into our potential with there just being so much opportunity out there. And so we actually signed up for Ironman Mantra Blonde, um, in 2021. And then I remember go, you talk about this all the time, but I went up to Boston to do some training with Harry.

So we did this long run on the Charles River. And the thesis of that conversation was that we were just terrified of missing out on our potential and let's go all in. And just finding someone else that was on that same wavelength [00:03:00] that gave us so much confidence to ultimately do what we're doing now.

And really how Mafia started was that race in Canada got canceled because it, Canada was so strict in the middle of COVID. Mm-hmm. So we took that race credit, rolled it to Ironman, Waco, which is an hour outside of Austin. Mm-hmm. Um, we did an Airbnb for three months. We're just training, talking about nutrition, the food system.

And during that three month period, we probably had like 10 to 20 people that just separately came up to us and were like, you guys have something special between the two of you? I don't know what it is, but you should maybe be thinking about working together. And eventually when you hear that feedback over and over again, we're like, all right, we should, we should probably listen to it and start something.

And so after that experience, we just started writing and blogging and creating content about the food system, which led to the podcast, which led to Noble. But it was really, it was actually business partner first idea second. Mm-hmm. And I don't know if there's a right or wrong answer, but I think 99% of businesses, it's concept first and then find your partner.

Or we were the reverse and it's worked, you know [00:04:00] really well. And we feel really blessed. We're the reverse. I was like, are we though? Yes, we, we worked in real estate and then we were like talking every day, but kind of like partners first concept, right? Friends first, anyway. Well first of all, can you imagine us being like, how do we find our potential to be like, let's go run a half iron Man.

Like we would never be able to do that. But that's such an inspiring story. And so you guys, like you started on Twitter and then like how did you just pick up a mic? Like how did you start also like how often were you posting content to the point where you were like, okay, this is actually something we can really pursue and do a podcast and then and full-time job then continue.

Right? Because you just started having, I mean, no, you knew you were partners, but kind of like having fun posting it 'cause you enjoyed it. Well, what's cool is you should tell a story. Harry quit his job. Before we'd ever, I think before we'd ever created a piece of content. Yeah, right. Yeah. I cold quit in August, like before the Ironman, so the Ironman was in October and I quit in August.

I was basically just like end of the road, was kind of done with the job [00:05:00] and had been interviewing for, to just to be a chief of staff, of an entrepreneur down in Austin who I really admired. And he saw something in the way that I had like just presented different like case studies through the interview process.

And he was like, wow, like super impressive. Gonna give you an offer. Didn't end up working out. But through that process I was like, if I can get this guy's attention, like there's gotta be something that I can do in a city like Austin where there's all these cool entrepreneurs in the health and wellness space.

And at that point I was just like, I knew I wanted to be in the health and wellness space. I just didn't really know how it was all gonna come together. So I was just like, I'm gonna get down there and just kind of figure it out. So I had like a little bit of money saved up. I knew we had the race going down there in October and was just excited to get down there and start meeting people.

So, um, that whole month, like leading up to the race, I was just like trying to, I got connected with him. A bunch of his buddies. And pretty quickly I was working on an idea and I was just like, I'm gonna start writing blog posts. Just 'cause writing is like, it's the backbone of every business. Mm-hmm. Is being able to like articulate your ideas, your thoughts, and like your [00:06:00] guys' podcast, it's like how do we actually communicate this to people who wanna listen to it?

And for me, I was like, I have this great idea, but I kinda need to figure out like how I'm gonna communicate this to people. 'cause I don't have any credibility in this space. This health, health and wellness space to like the average person. Mm-hmm. So I started writing these blog posts. Brett was seeing me writing it, right.

And he was like, this is like, I can see how addicted you are to this process. Let me join, join in. And so we just like, literally, it was almost like. Friendly competition of like us just getting excited about putting our thoughts out there. And so I think I wrote a few blog posts and you were like, dang.

Like if he can do it, then I can, he shared his story about his colitis and I think we just got kinda like hooked on. Mm-hmm. Just this new creative outlet, like, almost like this suppressed creative energy that we didn't really tap into during our corporate gigs. And, uh, just like being able to run after something with no, like, there was no way we were gonna be able to, we were like no expectations of monetizing anything.

Mm-hmm. We were just like, let's just do this for fun. Yeah. And see if it works. And, and this was [00:07:00] anonymous on Twitter. Anonymous. We were fully anonymous. So when did you decide like, all right, let me show face. Little over was a year. Awesome. Why anonymous? Yeah, it was, it's a great question. Oh, so 2022 is when we started writing and Twitter is just this.

Really unique social media. X now is this very unique social media platform. And a lot of the creators that we were following, for whatever reason on X in particular, they had anonymous accounts. And I think for Harry and I, we didn't realize at the time, it actually gave us a lot of confidence because in imposter syndrome is probably the biggest thing to get over going from zero to one and putting those first pieces of content out there.

And I know for me in particular, I was like, let me just share some stuff and see if it does well. And then because the Internet's a meritocracy, we should know pretty quickly if I have anything valuable to say. And we were fortunate where a lot of that content started doing really well, really quickly.

Um, you know, I think we grew to close to a hundred thousand Twitter followers combined in our first year. Wow. Which, and [00:08:00] that was kind of our distribution channel to the podcast. Mm-hmm. Because we had these engaged eyeballs and they're like, oh, now these guys are speaking and doing a new form of content.

And so like month one, we started having a good amount of listeners that really liked that. So I think it, I think it just took the pressure off of it and then we had a really conscious conversation around, hey, if we want to be leaders in the space, I think it's really tough to do that if you're operating at our nail anonymous accounts and not really showing your face.

Yeah, so we ripped the bandaid off and I think it was definitely the right decision, but I think, you know, there's all these little tricks that you can play early on just to get yourself to put stuff out there. Because even before we'd ever started Meat Mafia, I'd want to tell my story for years. Like when I lived in my, in New York City, I'd wrote my story five times and put so much pressure on myself that I just crumpled it up into a piece of paper and threw it in the trash can and was upset.

Um, and there was no reason why I couldn't have done it five years earlier, but it was the fear of failure and just imposter syndrome and putting too much pressure on myself. Mm-hmm. So having a good business partner, us being anonymous, we kind of combined all these things and [00:09:00] that's really what got the brand off the ground also.

Like it's, it's crazy that you just brought that up 'cause I was gonna say like, you not getting that job that you wanted after quitting your other job, like you would, you wouldn't be here today. So it's just like such a, I'm sure you reflect on that moment of like, okay, like redirection, like wow. And now it's brought me to my dream career.

Yeah. There's a lot of things that made me think like you're talking about mantra blah, like we were supposed to do that Ironman in Canada. We wouldn't have gone to Austin. I don't think we would've lived together leading up to it. Like mm-hmm. There really were a lot of things that kind of just had to fall into place in order for us to kind of have this realization where it's like we need to just like kind of catalyze this energy that we have together, this shared interest of wanting to build something in the health and wellness space.

So. I do feel like there's a lot of just like this invisible hand of like these, these things that really, like if it hadn't happened, we wouldn't be sitting here. We wouldn't have started the podcast. We wouldn't have started Noble. So it's cool just looking back and like seeing how important some of those decision, like at the time, very small decisions.

Like we were like, Hey, let's just like live together for a month leading up to this thing to make it a little bit more [00:10:00] fun and like just like enjoy the process a little bit more and that just like turned into something very special. So yeah, I think there's a lot of those little moments I think about.

I'm like, man, we're like very blessed to have like made that choice. Yeah. Well nothing's a coincidence. Yes. And I think timing is everything. And everything is exactly how. Meant to be. Whether we see it in the moment Totally. We look in retrospect and we're like, wow. So tell us a little bit about your story too.

Like the health, like the health story in, in particular, your story. Yeah. Yeah. We were talking with Kat because I've had a few calls with Kat, um, which has been really cool getting to know you and just seeing what you both are doing as well. And we have a Babson connection, um, Kat, Harry and I, and in college it was really just, I justified everything under the lens of, well, I play baseball at a high level, therefore I must be healthy because I look.

Lean, and I'm not overweight, but like the inside of my body was kind of telling a different story. And so I was basically just classic college lifestyle, binge drink, binge drinking, eating a [00:11:00] ton of processed foods, stressed out over baseball classes, not sleeping a lot. And then I think I did have like some genetic predisposition to maybe getting sick and it was kind of a cocktail of all those factors where my, it was my junior summer going into my senior year.

I was interning in New York City and then I was living back home with my parents in New Jersey. So I would take the train ride in and it was about two hours. It was a long commute. And those train rides were getting more and more uncomfortable. 'cause I was just feeling so much inflammation, almost like the stabbing sensation in my stomach.

And I kind of just let that persist and go on for the entirety of the summer because I was young and wanted to enjoy my first summer in New York City. And um, ended up like losing 30 pounds, had a ton of inflammation, was kind of just like wilting away. To be honest with you. I got rushed to the hospital the last day of my internship and that's when I got diagnosed with ulcerative colitis.

So autoimmune disease, it affects your colon, which is your large intestine. And anything with itis at the end of it just means severe inflammation. And so when I got [00:12:00] diagnosed, my doctor was immediately like, Hey, there's nothing you did wrong. You just hit the bad end of a genetic lottery. Like no matter what you did, you would've gotten sick.

And he just put me on a cocktail of just drugs and medication that I was told I was gonna be on for the rest of my life. And I was like, well, okay. I guess that's it. And even getting that diagnosis, my focus was still on. I remember thinking like, okay, well how quickly can I just start drinking again? And like eating cheeseburgers?

Yeah, because I just, I didn't, I couldn't connect the dots of, Hey, dude, like the things that you were doing, the wrong things you were doing, that's ultimately why you got, had gotten sick to begin with. Like, I hadn't taken responsibility yet, so I ended up going back to school, finish out my senior year, left college, just really feeling like I had under achieved in a, in a number of different things, like could have been a better student, could have been a better baseball player, didn't feel like I was a great person.

Then I had gotten sick to, to top it all off, and then living in New York City and cooking my own meals for the first time. I noticed that there was a correlation between. Hey, when you don't eat out, you actually feel [00:13:00] really good 'cause you're controlling the ingredients. And when I'm eating processed foods, I feel like I don't, I don't feel good.

And then everything changed when I discovered the carnivore diet in 2019. And it was unheard of at the time. It's way more mainstream now. Yeah. But back then, I didn't know anyone that was doing it. But the people that I was following, they had lost a ton of weight. Their skin looked really clear. They were claiming that they were curing these incurable things.

And so I just was, I just had this blind faith, kind of similar to Harry quitting, quitting his job before Meat Mafia was a thing. I was like, I think there might be something here. What's the worst case that happens? I just go back on the drugs. Okay, I'll do that. And, uh, it worked within like three days.

Like I immediately, that's literally insane. Sometimes that's all it takes. How is that impossible? And it wasn't, it wasn't fully, it was more so like, I feel way better from day one to day three. Yeah. Like more so an indication of like, all right, whatever I'm doing is working. And I hadn't felt that good in a really long time.

Mm-hmm. Maybe ever, to be honest with you. Mm-hmm. Because I had never taken control of my health so seriously. And I'm just the type of person where if you just give me like a taste of that thing, I'm [00:14:00] just gonna go all in. And then basically for two years all I ate was, you know, red meat, eggs, um, chicken, seafood.

I cooked in butter, I cooked in beef, tallow water. Um, I was still drinking coffee too. That was the one thing I didn't cut out. 'cause it's like I'm not gonna give up coffee, frankly. You know what I mean? And, um, by the end of that experience, I ended up going back to my doctor because they tell you, you have to be on these drugs for the rest of your life.

They're not gonna, they're ne they will never push you to get off the drug. Especially, you know, these western medicinal doctors never gonna happen. And so I went to him and was like, I think I, I feel really good. Can we talk about me getting off of the biologics that I'm on? And, um, he was like, all right, well, we'll, let's look under the hood.

Let's do a colonoscopy and then we'll talk about it. And so he, he does that. And then zero inflammation, zero micro inflammation, which is essentially being medically cured. Mm-hmm. And then I've been drug free for the last five years, so that was really my first taste of Okay. Everything the doctors have been telling me not to eat.

I ate. And that [00:15:00] was the thing that actually cured me from having this incurable disease. And now, you know, six years later, thousands and thousands of people are talking about these nutritional and, and dietary and lifestyle levers that you can pull. Like literally that's why RFK got elected. Yeah. He was like, let's look under the hood and understand that we don't, the western model is great for certain things and really bad for other things.

And, um, that was kind of my experience as well. You like lost 30 pounds, you weren't feeling good. And like now we have people like literally taking drugs to like lose muscle mass and lose weight. Mm-hmm. And like putting themselves in these crazy positions where. Like you were begging to get out of it.

Yes. And like I know other people, like people that have cancer who are the same thing. Obviously it's a different scale, but like they're getting all these drugs pumped into their body. They're losing weight, they feel like shit. And I just can't believe that people are purchasing drugs to do this to themselves.

That's like number one. And I just think like big food and big pharma have such a connection. We were like, we're not gonna get into big pharma, but like we are. It's hard not to. Yeah. It's hard not to. Um, and the second thing is like, [00:16:00] you're in your early twenties and you're going like so strict on this diet and like, I don't know, were you single at the time or I was single at the time.

Because like, isn't that hard? Like you're like, oh, I can't go out, I can't grab drinks with a friend I can't date. Like, I don't know, maybe you got like steak dates or something, but I'm, that's just like a weird thing for like a, a guy in his twenties, like living in New York City to like have to be so quote unquote restrictive.

I know it's like saving your life, but I just want to know like where your head was at at that time. It's a good question. And I was in a sales role too, so I was traveling around the country and like whining and dining clients, right. And meeting with people all the time too. Yeah. I'm trying to put myself back into that state and I, I feel like, how did you get, so how were you able to like, stick to this plan?

'cause you just like, felt good after three days. So I think once the connection was made of like, these foods are kind of the gateway to save your life and if you gravitate away from this thing, I'm like, that's a big deal. Yeah. Like, you're gonna be back in the hospital, wilting away to nothing. Like people die from this stuff.

Yeah. Like my old roommate in San Diego had ulcerative colitis. He got his entire [00:17:00] colon taken out. Oh my God. God. And had a J pouch, like, that's not a, you know, you don't wanna go through life like that. Yeah. So it was never, it, I never viewed it, it was restrictive. I was like, this is just what I have to do.

Okay. Yeah. And I actually just, it, it, it actually felt good just taking like true autonomy over my health. And even back then I was like, oh, I think I like it. I did kind of get that feeling of I'm finally tapping into my purpose and my potential and you know, my skin was really healthy, my stomach was great.

Like I was popping outta bed at like four or 5:00 AM which I was never able to do before. So I think I lean so much into the like, no bite of food is going to necessarily taste better than how good I feel right now. And maybe what this could lead to ultimately. Yeah. Um. And what I would just, I would just tell certain clients, like if they, no one really gave me shit.

But if they 'cause or like your friends, would they, I mean, I kind of just like stopped associating with a lot of people. I would just be like, no, I'm not gonna do that. Or maybe I would have like a seltzer at the bar or something like that. Mm-hmm. I don't know. It was, wait, so you couldn't drink alcohol? I could.

I just wouldn't. Okay. Because that would, that would that, that will [00:18:00] always bother us. That's okay. I don't, she's literally sober. Can't brain. No, I'm asking. Well we can talk about if that made a difference. Yeah, like later we talk about the changes. 'cause like I can, you know, I drink alcohol, pizza. We'll we'll talk about all that stuff.

I was gonna say, are you guys still like carnivore? No. I mean I'll use it like here and there, but I think like just it's a tool. As a tool and then it kind allows you to like realize what sensitivities you have your relationship with, food changes through. Uh, a diet like that, but I don't think that it's necessarily like a long-term play.

Yeah. Where did your passion for this come from? I was just always interested in kinda like the performance side of things. I played baseball, so was really like, just curious like, okay, how can this affect my performance? Um, I don't know. I had like, just this really early, like when I was a teenager, I was just really.

Early into running, getting into the gym. I just loved it. It was kind of like an escape for me, and it was also like something that was helping me perform in baseball, football, other sports that I was into. So I loved just like being in the gym and nutrition. It [00:19:00] was my obsession. So I just think it's like such a hot take.

I don't know if you agree with me, and I think you guys like live in Austin where this, that's like the epicenter of health and wellness. So maybe you don't see it this way, but from my perspective, and maybe yours, like even if. Like, I know many guys who are athletes, whatever. Also like my family members, but a lot of 'em are just like athletes and like, they don't really care about like health and wellness.

They're just like, I'm sick at baseball. I'm like, good in the gym. Like I'm lifting heavy and like I'm just gonna eat whatever the fuck I want. I'm gonna look good. Anyway, so I just think it's, it's like a hot take that you're both like, I mean obviously you suffer from a condition, but that you were just like really into health and wellness and like wanted to see how you could like gather peak performance from it.

I don't know. Yeah. Don't you like, I don't any guys who are like so into health and wellness like that. Yeah. Not really. Yeah. I don't know. I feel like I saw how it affected my mindset towards just like, yeah, wanting to go after things like me on a diet that's like just clean eating, right? Versus just like kind of being slothful and eating garbage.

Like a totally different person. Why would I just let [00:20:00] those habits take control of where I wanted to go with my life versus if I can just eat clean that. Yeah. To me that that is just like, like I can't imagine being an entrepreneur and not eating clean. I agree. But they're How do you like run a business, if you like, are, yeah, I don't know.

I'm literally thinking of the baps and baseball team, like eating, just like humongous place of pasta, like at Trent, which is why I'm like, I was like on a, I was on a paleo diet at at tr. That's insane. That way I was too, but I was like, I mean, I was like really intense back then, but yeah. Kids on my team were like, what?

Like dude, you're in college. Like chill out. Oh my God. Like the chicken fingers on one plate. The pasta, like waffle. Just like the worst things ever. Yeah. Just to go back to the doctors. It's really crazy how I always say, but I'm like, you have to advocate for yourself. Yeah. Mm-hmm. At the doctors because.

Not that you can't trust them, but you can't. You kind of can't. And if you're not telling them how you feel like they're gonna tell you, like you said they were telling you to not eat something and you were eating it and it made you feel better. Mm-hmm. Was that just like intuitive in your body telling you like, I need to still eat this and let me see [00:21:00] how I feel.

And you were feeling better? Yes. Or how did you end up doing like the opposite of what you were telling? I know, it's a good question. It was, um, I remember when I started it the first time, I think I was intimidated because we are just taught, you know, well my doctor is kind of like my, my judge and the CEO of my health.

So I just blanket follow exactly what he or she tells me to do. Right? And they're just following like the conventional medicinal training that they got as well, um, which can definitely work for certain things. But for me it was just, I feel really good when I'm doing this and I actually feel better than the way that I felt when I was on the drugs.

So maybe my body is actually telling me the truth. And what he's prescribing me isn't actually the full truth as well. And there's some alternative things I need to gather if I wanna be off some of this stuff. I mean, I'm sure they make money too, by giving you the drugs. They make a lot of money, so there's a lot of money.

There's Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of money, uh, telling people that, you know, you're gonna have this thing for the rest of your life. And I think my, the infusions I was getting were like 40 or $50,000 per [00:22:00] infusion. And so how often were you getting them? Every eight weeks. Insane. And so your life kind of around that, that's insane.

Yeah. So you're like, Hey, I'm gonna go on vacation. Oh no, I can't. 'cause I have to be back till like, so a nurse can come to my house and hook me up to a bag. Um, so it's, so at a certain point I'm like, yeah, I'll, I'll eat steak every meal if I don't have to do that. Yeah. To do that. Yeah. So it's almost, I think it, you asked an earlier question around, um, you know, how did you, like, how did you.

Get away with it when you're in the city and you're young and you're single, like, I just don't wanna go back to that. Yeah. And then you actually gain a lot of confidence being different and going against the grain. It's like, if you're doing what everyone else is doing, you're probably gonna be like fat, sick and miserable.

And so I'm like, well, I should probably do the opposite what everyone is doing. And then that's all said, worked. I'm like, that sounds awful. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Got it. I mean, I feel like in 2019, veganism was like at its prime. It's prime. And I remember like going vegan and like I was living in New York and I was like, there were all these like influencer girls, I don't wanna name them 'cause maybe they have different mindset shifts now, but I was like, oh yeah, I wanna [00:23:00] look like this girl.

And she was like pro promoting, like food combining and vegan and this and that, whatever. And so like every girl just started doing that. And I was listening to podcasts where they were literally saying like, if you eat animal meat, like you'll have cancer and you're gonna die. Like every podcast I listened to was about literally animal protein making you have cancer.

And I was like, where do people get this information now looking back? Because now it's like the opposite. So, I don't know, there's a lot of noise, obviously, but do you think that like carnivore is a trend? I mean, you can't think that, 'cause it works for you, I guess, but I think similarly to what Harry said, I think the goal is to use it as a tool to get the desired results and then be able to incorporate a lot of these other food groups.

Yeah. Like we talk a lot about what everyone is saying that's in the health space, like shopping in the outer aisle of the grocery store. Mm-hmm. Like eating single ingredient, real foods, you know, meat, fish, eggs, fruits, vegetables, dairy, things that actually come from the ground and can die. Like if something can't, if something wasn't killed, like it's probably not food to begin with.

[00:24:00] Um, and I do think that the pro the, the pro of social media and health and wellness influencers is that you get access to information that your doctor's not telling you. Like we talked about, like a lot of those influencers early on were the reason why I dove into the diet to begin with. But now to feed the algorithm, there needs to be like a lot of like, there's like a lot of scare tactics.

Yeah. And fear porn and like men that are afraid of touching receipts at Target and they're being told that when you go to an Airbnb, like take out the the LED light bulbs and put in the red light light bulbs and there's, there's this point of like, alright, you've literally gone too far and you need to be resilient.

Like if you're not gonna stay at a hotel because there's LED light bulbs. I mean it's like your fragile glass mean That's crazy. Yeah. So it's just we're, we talk a lot about just normalcy, like use it as a tool and then your goal should be to be able to eat a variety of food groups and go back like when I go back to New Jersey, I want to eat pizza with my parents.

Mm-hmm. Like I'd love New York and New Jersey Pizza and I'm gonna have a drink every once in a while. Like I was just on my bachelor party in Miami. That's why we're doing this. Yeah. Like I had some drinks this weekend. It was amazing. Yeah. Why do you think people talk so much shit about meat and what do you [00:25:00] think about all the positives that it brings?

It's funny 'cause when we first started writing online, we were talking a lot about kinda like the history of food and there's been a lot of just like smear campaigns against meat going back to the sixties. So isn't that like all they ate like salted beef? Yeah, for a long time it was just like such a core part of our diets.

And then when I, it was Eisenhower, right? Mm-hmm. Eisenhower has a heart attack and then through that like they're like, it's meat's fault. Yeah. They're like, it was meat and literally it was smoking a pack of cigarettes every single day. Yeah. So me got pin for it. They come out with these food guidelines.

The food guidelines are steering people heavily towards like corn, soy, and wheat. That's basically the basis of every American diet, pasta cereals for the next like several decades. So meat, just meat and dairy products just becomes bastardized. And you know, I think like a lot of people fall for the vegan trap.

And a lot of it is like, is I, I think like there is kind of this conspiratorial tone to like this topic, but I [00:26:00] think it's very true. Like there are powers that have influenced the way that people think about nutrition. Um, going back like several decades and meet just kind of. Became this thing that, um, was bastardized mostly because like there's some religious groups that have influence over the dietary guidelines and they've influenced people because red meat is vital and gives people vitality, basically, like it, they convinces them to like stop eating it.

So kind of conspiratorial. But I think that like, from a consumer standpoint, it's like affected everyone's life. Like people now are like coming to the conclusion like, meat's not all that bad for you. Mm-hmm. And meat can be really good for you if you source from the right places. And it's not something that's like highly processed or some, like some form of meat that's from like a feedlot.

Like it really does matter, like where you're actually getting the meat from. So I think there's kind of like this nuance and like almost, um, like overcomplicate over [00:27:00] complication of what we should be eating. Like we're a species that doesn't understand what we should be eating. Like I think it's like literally, yeah.

I'm like, come on. Like, you know what? You should be eating local foods, fresh foods, uh, seasonal foods. Mm-hmm. Like foods that are just around you during that time of year and like just trying to source those as locally as possible. So I just think there's like so many marketing dollars from all these food brands that are just influencing our food choices and making it way more complicated than it needs to be.

And basically just trying to bucket things into like, is it processed or is it unprocessed? Okay. Unprocessed is way healthier for me. These are real foods. If you eat mostly that, you're gonna be a great spot. So I think from that standpoint, it's like there's just been a lot of like marketing dollars thrown at the food space in the last several decades.

So do you guys eat like vegetables? Yeah. Okay. No, because I don't know, because then it's like, don't eat the vegetables. They have like pesticides on them. So I think obviously marketing makes it all confusing, but what do you guys [00:28:00] think about that? Do have you ever heard of like the Dirty Dozen and the, the hate light?

Yeah. Mm-hmm. Do you guys like believe in that? Yeah. Yeah. I was like looking at the pictures of it and I was like, this actually makes a lot of sense. Wait, can you explain, I don't know what this is. Yeah, there's, it's like certain, well maybe you can explain it better then. So what do you guys look for when you're shopping in the grocery store?

Like what should we be looking for to just get some good, decent, simple, healthy needs? We had some, two of our really good friends, they own this ranch in Lubbock, Texas. It's called Holy Cow Beef. They're unbelievable people. Christian. Um, they were one of Whole Foods first, like grass finish beef ranchers that they work with that was selling it to Whole Foods, so they really know their stuff.

And they subscribe to like the good, better, best model. Mm-hmm. Where good is just meat in general, where like eating red meat, even if it's like the cheap meat at Publix is still better than hot Cheetos in any of the processed craft that 99% of Americans are consuming. Um, better is grass finished meat.

And then best is grass finished meat from a local rancher that you have a personal relationship with. And the reason why [00:29:00] that's best is that a lot of times in the grocery store, unfortunately, you can't really verify and ask questions. Mm-hmm. Like even if you, you go to the Whole Foods down the street, a lot of times I'll ask the butcher like, Hey, do you know the ranch, like where the ranch and the cows come from?

A lot of times they don't know. Maybe state if you try to do that, I'm sure, I'm sure you get punched in the face. Yeah. I mean, they'll, they'll be pissed at you. Which is so crazy because back in the day it used to be all butcher shops where you had, you were on a first name basis with the person they knew you, they knew the cut of meats that you liked.

And you could just actually verify where your food was coming from and ask questions. But even if you don't have access to that, there are some amazing, like, beef subscription companies that exist. Mm-hmm. Um, like Good Ranchers is a good one where they aggregate from a lot of regenerative and grass finished farms.

But even if all you have is access to like a Publix or Whole Foods, literally just focusing on shopping in the Adderall of the grocery store is where you're gonna be. Like, we focus on a gram of protein per pound of ideal body weight. Mm-hmm. So I think I'm 200 pounds now. Mm-hmm. I'm getting married in a month, so I gotta shred up a little bit.

So, [00:30:00] so I'm trying to get like 190 to 195 grams of animal protein per day. Uh, steak has always just digested really well and with my stomach red meat. So, um, beef, um, bison, I'll do some chicken, I'll do some seafood every once in a while, but it's primarily red meat. Mm-hmm. I probably eat about two pounds of red meat a day.

So I'll just go to the grocery store twice a day. So I'm like, alright. So if I, or sorry, not twice a day, I'm like, what? Twice a week? That was like, damn, that's like Cat twice. Okay. Just load up twice a day. Yeah. But twice a week. I like doing like every three to four days. That's what I do's like, more cost effective.

I don't like going to grocery. Don't waste waste or door. You could DoorDash it or, uh, Uber Eat or Instacart or whatever. I could do Instacart. I do Instacart all the time. Yeah. And the nice thing about Instacart is like, you're not getting tempted by walking down the aisles. Oh, no, no, no. Yeah. So I know. So you, so I'll be like, all right, so if I'm gonna go get three days worth of food, that's six pounds of meat.

So I'll throw in some steak, I'll throw in some ground beef, I'll throw in some chicken thighs, like cuts that I really like. Mm-hmm. [00:31:00] And I think that's a great starting point. Or like, what's the meat that you actually enjoy? Like, if you don't like cooked salmon, don't load up with cooked salmon. Yeah. You know, if you don't like chicken, don't load up with chicken.

Find the things that you're actually gonna stick to. And then from there, I'm just thinking about other things to compliment my plate. So like some potatoes, some white rice. The fruits that I actually like, berries, which are like lower on the glycemic index. Um, some dairy for my protein shakes, some eggs as well.

And then I'm kind of in and out in like 15 minutes max. Yeah. And then just like some good quality snacks to graze on too, like pork rinds and things like that. Mm-hmm. But it's like in and out in 15 minutes gram of protein per pound of ideal body weight and just trying to stick to single ingredient stuff.

And if you can't have raw milk, what milk should you buy? I would say grass fed, low temp pasteurized milk. Like you have the Alexander Farms milk. Mm-hmm. In your fridge, which is amazing. Okay. Good. Any, are there any other good like grass fed milks that are at scale? And what is a two? It's the, the genetics of the cows.

So a two [00:32:00] dairy. Definitely the way to go. Okay. It digests way better. There's a one, a two. Mm-hmm. And a two is just the genetics that I think like most people are adapted to, to actually be able to digest. Okay. Yeah. A lot of people struggle with a one. Okay. Which are like the big spotted Holstein cows.

Like horizon. That's a one. Yes. And things like that. That's why people say that goat milk digests really well. 'cause it's all a two. Okay. Um, but there are, yeah, there are some good quality options like Alexander and there are a few others in Whole Foods like you de map is Maple Hills. Maple Hills is grass fed, and then the low temp pasteurization just means that the temperature's a lot lower.

So a lot of those digestive enzymes are getting preserved because the whole thing with pasteurization is like, how can we heat this thing to a really high temperature to kill off the bad bacteria that used to kill Americans back in the early 19 hundreds. Mm-hmm. When we didn't have the same San Sanitary standards.

But the problem is that when you heat it to a certain temperature, it also kills off all the good bacteria. Right. So there's actually a way that. Milk. If it's good quality milk can actually, uh, support an [00:33:00] aid in gut health too. So is the sigma around raw milk that like, we're gonna die from these bacterias in the raw milk?

Yeah. So how come we don't die from them anymore? I'm being a hundred percent serious. So when raw milk was actually problematic, it was during the period where a lot of the US cities were booming, food was still problematic because there wasn't really refrigeration. Mm-hmm. So a lot of people were getting most of their calories from dairy, but the dairies were like in the cities.

So. The standards for how these cows were living were terrible. Mm. They were literally not leaving the same, they would stay in the same stall every single day. It's like so sad. It's really sad. They would eat not what they were supposed to eat. They would eat grains and basically just be like incredibly sick to the point where they had like ulcers on their, it was not what you, you would want to be drinking.

Yeah. And the milk was actually purple and would need to be dyed with plaster and chalk and all these other things. So like jaw on the floor. Yeah. That's just like not real milk. Yeah. No it's not. It wasn't it. It was [00:34:00] like a very sick animal. And then that was like basically feeding the entire eastern seaboard.

And so like what they saw was a lot of milk was going towards infants because like as infants were weaning off their mother's milk, they would have dairy from cows. And a lot of infants were getting really, really sick. Mm-hmm. And so what they realized was, okay, this is coming from these cows. We need to start pasteurizing these pathogens out of this milk.

We need to keep this stuff up. And that was kind of when raw milk stopped becoming a thing because it became the scapegoat for these terrible practices where every human prior to 1900 was drinking. Were all dairy from cows or like, we don't have to pasteurize breast milk from a mom. Mm-hmm. The same thing.

It's like it's all in the process of like getting the milk from point A to point B without there being pathogens in it. Okay. So if it's a healthy cow, you can drink that milk. Okay. Yeah. A hundred percent. Got it. And we have refrigeration now. Yeah. Refrigeration and other, like, I think the, the process of like [00:35:00] actually getting the milk safely out of the cows, like much better than it used to be.

Okay. Got it. Yeah. Got it. What do you guys think are the biggest myths around red meat that need Deb? Hmm. Like I feel like our parents, maybe not our parents, but like PE older people are like rent meat once a week. Like cannot have more than totally once a week. Like why, why are they saying that?

Grandfather? Yeah. Oh my God. Is from, we're from Brazil and then they moved to Uruguay. He's had farms his whole life and there they raised Angus cows, whatever. He would feed them the good food, he would sell them to the people who kill the cows. And then the US actually buys a lot of it. So he grew up eating like literally probably the most healthiest cows, I mean me ever, because it was literally raised by him and his.

Backyard of the farm. Do you like slaughtered them? When she was little, I didn't slaughter. She would watch them get slaughtered. No, I, my grandpa wanted me to watch the process. How was that for you to see that? I mean, honestly it was really sad because he like shot the cow in the, in that it's not funny.

It's funny like picturing you with a child watching this and you're gonna be [00:36:00] like, watch. Honestly, it was, it was really, I couldn't watch that part. But then I saw 'em like skin it and like open it up and then we ate it for dinner. Like it was great. But, um, it's so good now. He's like hearing all this bullshit from doctors that it's like, oh, I can't because of this problem, because of my liver or whatever, I can't eat red meat anywhere.

And I'm like, but you ate red meat your whole life and if anything, you're eating the healthiest because you're not giving them grains. They're seriously grass fed. Like, you know exactly what you're giving 'em. So it's crazy when we say, like, these other generations are like, no, no meat. And then they restrict themselves.

Why do people say that like that to me? And then you have such, not, you like people have such great experiences mm-hmm. Eating meat that it's like, is it 'cause they're, listen. To their doctors. Mm-hmm. They're not listening to their bodies. I think it's like fearmongering. I want you guys to answer, but yeah.

So what do you think, think are like the biggest myths and like, what, what are Yeah. I think that what Harry was saying about raw milk in the early 19 hundreds, like a lot of that stuff, these things that are very outdated. They, we made these changes like 50 to a hundred years ago and we just never [00:37:00] adapted, like back in the early 19 hundreds, they basically had a choice where it's like we could either like clean up the quality of the farms themselves, that way we don't need pasteurization and could drink milk like we've always drank in milk.

Or we could choose to like go through this industrial, uh, pasteurization process and kill off a lot of the nutrients. That's, that's what we chose to do. Meat's not super dissimilar like Harry was talking about, uh, president Eisenhower's heart attack. And people were like, oh, it has to be a, there has to be a correlation between increased cholesterol and, you know, instances of a heart attack.

Mm-hmm. Really, lo and behold, it's like the average American was smoking a ton of cigarettes a day. Meat ends up being scapegoated as well. And I think a lot of that fear has bizarrely just persisted. And there's a lot of marketing behind these things too, but when you actually look at the data and the science that there's really no nutrients that you're getting from fruits and vegetables that can't be obtained in absurdly high levels from meat itself.

Um, so I think that's, that's stuff is really [00:38:00] important. And even bioavailability, which is your ability for your stomach to actually digest and process and utilize the nutrients. Meat is off the charts higher than anything else. Mm-hmm. Uh, new, uh, fruits, vegetables, whatever. It's in a category of its own.

So, but we are like, oh, meats, those documentaries. Oh, meat is super inflammatory. It's gonna raise my LDL or my, you know, my cholesterol levels. Like we, we isolate for LDL cholesterol in particular, and we don't fixate on, well, how's your HDL to tri triglyceride ratio, which is super important. The circumference of your waist size is the biggest indicator of your metabolic health.

So like, if you're eating meat and maybe your LDL cholesterol gets elevated, but these other lipid levels are getting really good and your waist is getting slimmer and your blood pressure is getting better, I would say that that's actually a sign that you're probably getting a lot healthier too. Mm-hmm.

But now people are so afraid of what their doctor's gonna say by going on a carnivore diet. They're immediately like, oh, your LDL raised a little bit. They get 'em off the red meat, they put 'em back on the processed foods, and then it's like, eat Cheerios. [00:39:00] Like what? And then they feel like, and then they feel like shit again.

And then their testosterone plummets and their hormones get shot to shit. So it's really just a lot of it's, it's a ton of fear mongering, but I think the nutritional properties of meat is something that's strongly demonized. And I think the other thing that's tough to argue with vegans is just like the morality around killing an animal.

Right? Yeah. But like you said, you love, like cows are like these beautiful, cute, amazing creatures. No one wants to see animals get killed. And I think that what we do is we almost act like we're disassociated from the food pyramid, where we're like, we're humans. We have the highest level of consciousness, therefore we can eat these other foods, even though every other animal is killing other animals and eating 'em.

Yeah. And so I think what Harry and I have found out is like, it's not really a moral thing, it's just what we're designed to eat, despite the fact that we don't want that death to occur. And if we are going to eat meat, let's try to choose, like, choose to get our meat from a really high quality source that's gonna honor that animal.

And then you kind of have an obligation to like eat that [00:40:00] food and then go live an amazing life and have that, you know, that food, fill you with energy and go do great things with it. Then the morality piece is really interesting 'cause I think these vegans, they just, they literally attach from this like, overall, overall food pyramid and they're like, oh, we're better.

So we're gonna combine all these ingredients in a lab and it's palatable and it tastes good, it tastes like shit. Yeah. But, um, like that, that's a huge thing. The, the moral piece, that's probably the hardest piece to argue. I was actually gonna say, I was thinking about like my friends back in high school that would watch these like terrible documentaries about how sad it is and, and it is, but.

It's exactly what you were saying. It's like, okay, well other animals also kill each other and like, we need to eat. And also this is like, really? Yeah, good for us. It's also still gonna happen if we like eat the meat or not. So yes, I don't understand that part either. But yeah. Um, let's talk about seed oils, because like obviously there's a huge hype around that and I just wanna know for you guys, why are seed oils bad?

Which like, I know the answer, but I want it like in terms that is easy to explain to everybody. And also like, I feel like that's also maybe a reason, like people are at home cooking [00:41:00] with seed oils, like making a steak with seed oils and then like it defeats the whole purpose and then they are like, oh, I feel like shit.

Like not from the steak, but from what you're like cooking it in. Hmm. Yeah. I think the simplification of seed oils is just like, it's highly inflammatory and it goes through this, I think it's 28 step process in order for it to go from seed to oil. And so in that process you're using bleach, deodorizers, all sorts of chemical inputs that otherwise, like if you, if you told somebody what that process actually looks like and you saw a video of how they're made, you'd be like, there's no way I am putting that in my kid's body.

So I try to take, like, there's a whole community of people who are ar arguing over their science of like seed oils being good or bad. Mm-hmm. Um, I think there's a lot of people who are invested in seed oils being good for you because they are a part of a lot of ultra processed foods that make it really cheap to get oils and calories into mm-hmm.

These cheap, tasty foods. But I definitely sit in the camp of these things [00:42:00] are not to be eaten. Mm-hmm. Um, they're highly inflammatory and inflammation is the number one precursor to like basically every autoimmune disease. Mm-hmm. All these chronic diseases that are plaguing us. So I just look at the process and I'm like, there's no way in nature you would ever find.

Highly concentration of this type of oil. You would, you just simply would not have ever seen that. So, and then the process to actually extract that and get it to a point where it's actually like somewhat tasty and palatable. Yeah. You go through this deodorizing process, it's bleaching process. I'm like all right, there's no way it's healthy for you if it's going through that much of a process.

Yeah. Is olive oil okay? Yeah, olive oil is okay. What do you guys like to cook in you like beef towel? I like beef Tao personally. It also has a really high smoke point too. Um, yeah, that's the one thing with olive oil is Yeah, because we've been using it. My whole apartment smoked was like, hell is going on.

It's great skincare too. You ever use beef towel skincare? No. In Miami. You skin Well I can try that. [00:43:00] Oh my god. I'd be ind be like sweating all day if I wore it. Probably just a little bit. A little bit Goes a long way. We're look like beef ta and then ghee lard. They all have really high smoke points.

Olive oil has a low smoke point. Yeah. So that when it, it, it burns really easily too. Yeah. But I, I, yeah. It, it oxidizes, it like cooking with olive oil, I think is potentially problematic. Yeah. It oxidizes way faster, so you don't necessarily wanna be eating that, like oxidize oil. Mm-hmm. Um, and then these like animal fats don't necessarily knock oxidize as easily or as quickly.

Yeah. Yeah. So, okay, cool. I love olive oil. Yeah. We like love olive oil, but we don't love olive oil. We like put it on top of things. Good. Yeah. Yes. Neat. Space source, like diluted yellow. Oh my god, no. Okay. Well, let's talk about Noble. Yes. Because. How addicted am I to Noble? No, she's having an egg. She's crushed egg every day, twice a day.

I have never had a protein powder. That does not hurt my stomach. You guys like this stuff actually makes me feel like I'm literally a skinny [00:44:00] legend when I have it. Skinny legend, like I'm like in a good test. 85 calories? Yes. No, 85 calories. I do two scoops sometimes and I'm full actually for half the day and I'm like, wait, like I need to eat though.

But in the coffee, like in my Greek yogurt bowl, I just have it every single day without fail and it's delicious. The chocolate with like a little bit of salt and ice. Like going crazy over here. Anyway. Talk about Noble, talk about the vision. I think we know why you started it, but go off on it really quick.

When you started taking more protein powder Yeah. As a woman, was there any fear of like you bulking up or putting on too much muscle? 'cause I feel like that's definitely something that's definitely so something I do think that's out there. Women feel, I think for a really long time I felt that way, like in the past, but I was so stuck in a bad mindset.

Like just as a woman, like body image, eat, like eating the wrong thing, no carbs, no this, like, you're always stressed out about what you're eating. Now as I've gotten older and I've like. I'm just so grateful to not be in an unhealthy body. Like I have no disease, I'm [00:45:00] good. I go to the gym every day. I'm so grateful to like, be feeding my muscles.

So I come from it from just like a very different standpoint, but like no judgment on women who do look at it that way because I, I get it, but no, because I've actually like very lean and I see a lot more like muscle production in my body, and I feel so much better. So the results are just like. It speaks for itself.

Awesome. I'm not bulking. Yeah, that's great. Unless you guys think I look bulky. No, no, I dunno. But there like, I think there is this misconception of like, there there is, you're gonna look like Ronnie Coleman if you consume and it's like, do you know how much protein Yeah. In anabolic steroids you need to actually consume, have put on a shit load of muscle.

Yeah. I mean like, I want women to hear this because it's important. Like my, I think my ideal like protein intake for the day is like 133 grams. Do you know how hard it's to get 133 grams For me? Like, and I eat a lot. Like I eat breakfast, I eat lunch, I eat dinner, I eat like protein filled snacks. And like sometimes it's the end of the day and I like still haven't even hit [00:46:00] 133 grams.

Which like think about like you guys, you have to eat so much more. Like, I actually don't know how you get there, but Quad scoops. Quad scoops. Yeah. Okay. Triple scoop. Triple scoop. So I just don't think like. I don't think, you know either. Like, not because of any reason, but like you don't eat a lot of protein.

You know, I don't eat a lot of protein. Not a lot. No, I definitely don't. And so I just think that like women in general are not, I mean, I like protein, but I'm not like, I'm not really, but like you probably eat like 65 grams of protein a day maybe. You know, like I think a lot of women, like they, they undereat their protein intake and don't even know it.

So she's shitting on me. No, I'm not. I tell her all the time she needs to eat more protein. So it's not, it's old news. But yeah, I think just being able to develop intuition is such an important thing where it's like maybe 65 grams feels incredible for you. And it's like, okay, well if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

And sometimes I'll feel like that too if I'm undereating certain things. And then sometimes it's like, well, let me just experiment. What if I have a little bit more? Okay. Maybe I feel really good, so I'll do more. And then actually like, oh no, this thing actually didn't feel [00:47:00] good and then I'll remove it.

But I think that willingness to constantly experiment. Yeah. Not overly fixate it, but just be like, try new things and then do you feel good or do you not feel good? We've kind of lost our ability to do that. Right? We see a lot on social media where it's just like so much tinkering 'cause there's so much information, but the person that's doing this experimentation isn't asking themselves if they feel good or do you, do you feel good or do you not feel good?

Yeah. Um, but with the Noble story in particular, I mean, we're a media led brand. So like Harry was saying, we genuinely did not have any type of a business plan or business model. When we started Meat Mafia, we had this faith around, if we get really good eyeballs on the stuff that we're doing, and there's people that are bought into us as creators and we give out a ton of information for free, we will be shown what business we're supposed to go into from Meat Mafia.

Maybe that'll be sponsorships, maybe that'll be a podcast network, maybe it'll be a product. Um, we just, we trusted that and it really worked out. And all we did is we just paid attention to the feedback we were getting. We were getting a ton of questions from [00:48:00] listeners around, you know, Hey, what supplements do you take?

What pro protein powders did you take that are out there? And honestly, at the time, like neither of us were really taking protein powder at all. Because they're like all made with peas. Yes. Literally game changers. Which is why you probably went vegan and didn't even realize it, why the vegan craze got so crazy.

That's James Cameron's documentary. He has the biggest, uh, pea protein powder company in the world. So literally like always follow the money. He created that documentary to sell more pea protein powder. That's a whole other separate tirade. But, um, I knew I wasn't gonna eat, we weren't gonna do a plant-based protein powder, whey protein powder, even though it is milk from the cow.

It's like this industrialized. Waste from the cow, which is why it doesn't actually feel good. Mm-hmm. Um, so we just started doing some RD like, are there any clean options that are out there that really, uh, coincide with what we believe? And then we started stumbling upon like this beef protein isolate. I was like, why have I never heard of beef pro protein isolate?

And you essentially take like the lean muscle tissue of the cow, the bones of the [00:49:00] cow, um, the, the height of the cow as well. And you combine it, um, through a couple different ways to create this like unbelievable powder. And the more that we were drinking it, the better and better we were feeling. And that's ultimately how we idea ideated on Noble.

And like, can we make something that's super nutrient dense, super friendly on the gut, high in protein, taste delicious? And then throwing some things like colostrum and collagen and organ complex, like all the things that we're already doing behind the scenes. Can we actually create that for our customer to like help people like you?

Get 130 grams of protein in, but not make you feel stressed out or like full or bloated trying to hit that goal. Mm-hmm. Like we're single ingredient real foods guys, but you know, having some good quality supplements as a secondary source can be a game changing thing. And make it sustainable too. Yeah.

How long does it take you guys to like, perfect this? How long did it take you to perfect it before starting to sell it? Was it three months? Yeah, it's gonna not long. Three months to get it to market. Yeah. But I mean, we've been trying to [00:50:00] perfect it for the last, like two years. Just, you know, iterating on customer feedback, you know, work with our manufacturer to get it like the right sweetness level.

So yeah, it's been an ongoing process of just like iterating. Um, but the, our first bash that we made was like three months to get to market. Yeah. That's kind of fast. That's really fast. Yeah. We had a third partner at the time and we're really just like really looking to like, bring the product to market.

We had a really clear and simple vision for it, and we had the media brands were like the, the, we have the right. Sourcing and high quality standards that we want in this brand. We know like we can make this thing work and like start getting it like actually in the marketplace, which for us was huge. I feel like for us, this is our first story into the entrepreneur world having a product.

So we just like wanted to start getting live reps and feeling like we had something tangible to like bring to our audience that wasn't just information. So I think it was really cool for us just as our first experience in the entrepreneur world, being able to like, [00:51:00] bring that product to market, sell it to our audience.

So we'd already been, that we'd already been building for the last year and then see their reaction to it and it was awesome that that initial launch was really cool. Totally. I know we talked before about you guys started the podcast in 2022. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And then when did you guys launch Noble? April of 2023.

So just over two years ago. A year later. Yeah. Yeah. And how did you guys like secure this partnership with Sun Life? 'cause that's like the coolest thing. I, oh, I tried the holy account. I You tried it. It, yeah. Really good. Did you like it? No, I loved it. 50 grams protein in there. That's what I told her whole, no, it's so filling.

It's like she was drinking. What did you say? You're like, I feel like I'm having chocolate ice cream right now. No, it's really chocolate. It felt like a like, like a dessert almost. Yeah. I think that's a cool thing too. Like you can have food that's really good for you. Yeah. And honestly tastes like dessert too.

Like we think that. Healthy foods are like depriving yourself of taste. And we're, that's, that's completely the opposite. You should be able to have both. Mm-hmm. And it should be stress free. But Sun Life was interesting because Khalil, their founder, who we've talked about [00:52:00] before, we are like obsessed with Khalil Crazy.

Can't stop talking about his story. Crazy story, every book. But I already, I heard about already. So when her and I moved to Austin, this wasn't planned at all. Like the first store we went to off South Congress, which is like the, the famous, um, street in Austin was the Sun Life Organics. They have like the, the most prime location.

'cause he's a master of getting the best spots. I know. Literally like right under anatomy. No, no, no. It's insane. That's where, that's what he does everywhere. New York City, soho. And we go to Sun Life. And then as we're getting more embedded in the health and wellness scene, Khalil's name probably popped up like 50 times.

And then we learned a little bit more about his story. And so the guy goes from being a shoot to die heroin addict, living under a bridge on Skid Row to being a, you know, he's, they have 25 locations, like super successful guy. Like, we just wanna meet this guy and get him on the podcast. So I think I texted him to come on the show like eight different times.

Blew me off every single time. And rightfully so. He is a busy guy. Like, I'm trying to get something from him. And I noticed one time when we went into Sun Life that they actually [00:53:00] sell, they sold powdered colostrum. Mm-hmm. I'm like, well, we put colostrum in Noble. We had just launched a brand two months before.

And so I sent him the link to the website. He calls me immediately and was like, oh my gosh, I can't believe that this is your product because I'm taking something kind of similar to it, but I would way rather try it from you guys. So he tries it, he loves it. We were, we just started raising capital at that point.

We had never raised capital before. Um, he wrote a check, so he became an investor. We gave him advisory shares as well too. Oh, wow. And then, um, you know, he, he's put us into every single store, and then we did that Holy Cow smoothie, which was, I think it's their best performing smoothie ever in the first month, which was incredible.

Okay. When we were at Sun Life, everyone ordered it. I wasn't paying attention. No, I'm obviously like, who's getting what. Yeah, no, it was crazy. But just another good example of like, you know, I think we were, you know, we were intimidated, we're raising capital for the first time. Like we knew nothing about CPG, we knew nothing about starting a supplement company, but we're like, we can figure this stuff out.

Like we have each other, we're [00:54:00] partners, we're, you know, we're really well connected in the space. We can figure out the right people that will help us scale this thing. And that was another like, just got opportunity, like right person, right time, right store and uh, yeah. The rest is history from there, but that's how that whole relationship started.

But they've been, I don't even know if we would exist without Sun Life, to be honest with you, because they've been such amazing partners and jet fuel to what we're trying to do. That's incredible. Your mom always says, she's like, has this been done before? Yes. So like, why wouldn't I be able to do it? And like mm-hmm.

I think when you put it in those types of terms, it's like, yeah, like why wouldn't I be able to do this? So it's like amazing that you guys achieved the success you did. What do you guys think are the biggest challenges you had to overcome with the podcast? Getting people on, obviously consistency is key.

Starting noble. What are the biggest challenges and how did you overcome them? I think as you evolve as an entrepreneur, entrepreneur, you have to continue to feed that beginner's mindset. When you don't have anything to lose at the beginning of an the entrepreneurial process, you're willing to throw stuff at the wall and like see what sticks.

And I feel like one of the things that I've learned [00:55:00] a little bit more, like as I've gotten deeper into the process of becoming an entrepreneur is not being afraid. Like once the brand's established, like you shouldn't be afraid to continue to throw different ideas and be creative and have that beginner's mindset to solve the different problems that are happening in the business.

Like that creates that creative juice that you have at the beginning is so fun because you're like, we're creating something from nothing. But once it's already established, you're like, oh, I don't wanna hurt this thing that's already exists. So you have a little bit of a different approach to, and I think you probably should, but I really like, I think it's like just something to learn to evolve through.

And I'm definitely still learning how to evolve through it, but it's like, how do you take that. That mindset of like, I, I want to keep experimenting and, and tinkering and doing things within the brand. Um, but still do it in the like way that you did at the beginning where you're like, oh, we don't have anything to lose.

Um, once you have something to lose, it starts to change a little bit. Yeah. You know. What about you Brett? I I could probably give you more like spiritual thing and then a practical [00:56:00] thing too. Yeah. We love spiritual. We're very spiritual around here. I love it. I remember, what was your second episode? Was it manifestation or was that your first episode?

I dunno. Episode our first one episode. Digging episode. Your episode used to episode, like listen to them, but like, it was like self-confidence in manifestation. Oh, you guys listen. Our episode one, it was absolutely horrendous. We were reading guys, we read the whole episode. You know, our second episode Still in the beginning we literally, 'cause we were, we were virtual.

We would pre type all of our questions. Yeah. And so we'd be like, Harry Harry's gonna intro it and I'm gonna ask the first question. We literally did that for like the first 50 episodes. Yeah. Yeah. And the next thing you know, you're like, oh, we're actually kind of good at this thing. Yeah. We put in a lot of reps, but.

The first thing is I had a lot of fear of judgment around like just friends and people and coworkers in my life. Like honestly, fear of like, am I gonna get left at by this person? Is this person gonna judge me? Are they gonna think I'm crazy? Like right when we first started the writing content online and just I had this, this thought of like, there isn't a single person whose opinion I'm worried about that I would trade lives [00:57:00] with.

And to take it a step further, I don't even think those people are actually happy with themselves. Mm-hmm. Um, that's why they would judge someone for doing something that's unique in their, in their life's mission is that they're unhappy, therefore they're gonna judge you as like a deflection from some of their own emotional issues.

And then as soon as that switch was flipped, that's what allowed me to like push, send. And then Harry was also like having a good partner that can give you that push and like pour that belief into you. That's what he's so good at. And so that combination for me was really powerful and that was like the first piece of content that really took off.

And then. Once I got that taste, the rest, the rest was history for us and we just went all in on it. Um, and I would say from a more tactical business perspective, like literally welcoming the fact that you will make every single mistake under the sun and you can't read a, you can't read a business book about a founder around these mistakes and think you're gonna not make them.

Like, you literally just have to make them and roll up your sleeves and get your hands dirty. Like we've had stockout issues, we've had to fire [00:58:00] employees like forgetting to pay taxes. Like the most basic stuff ever. Yeah. That you don't see because everyone's eyes go down. No, no, no. Because it's like, yeah.

It's like life. Yeah. Yeah. And the problem with social media is you see this 15, 32nd clip or a picture of a tiny snippet into someone's life and you don't see a lot of these failures. And a lot of people don't publicly talk about those things, but like welcoming that fact and, um. Yeah. Also just the willingness of like, how bad do you actually want this thing that you talk about?

Mm-hmm. Like do you, is it desperate hunger where you're willing to go to zero to make this thing happen? Or do you just kind of want it? I think that's been a really powerful mental model for me too. Like certain moments where maybe we haven't had as much success as we wanted. I've done some really honest accountability where I'm like, Hey, well I could be, you know, calling more wholesalers or reaching out to more podcast guests.

Like, look, typically like the scoreboard kind of reflects the work that you're doing or you're not doing too. So I think those three things have helped me a lot. Mm-hmm. I think like something we always go back to [00:59:00] in regards to what you were saying before, like, no one that's doing better than you is gonna like judge you for what you're doing.

Like no one that, like Alex Cooper isn't gonna be like, oh, look at geo and cat idiots. Like, yes. You know? Um, but second of all, I know you guys are very spiritual, so are we. So we wanted to like dig into the spirituality, faith aspect. Also how that plays a role in your business. Like when you first started, I'm sure there were like many moments where you were like, fuck, is this the right decision?

Like, should I have stayed in my corporate job? Like money? Like everyone just always has those, um, like that mindset shift of like, well now, like I have to do this and make money from it. Or I could have just like stayed in this secure role and like continued like having my salary and X, Y, Z. But how did you, like, rely on your faith and spirituality to get you through and like keep following your mission?

Well, it seemed like you, you also particularly just quit and like put yourself into it. Yeah. You literally trust He's very more me. You really had a lot of trust in the process that it was gonna work out. Yeah. I, I feel like I just, I really had a lot of discontent with where my life was at [01:00:00] and I was just ready to be like, put through the process of becoming the person I wanted to become.

Like, I was just like, I'm ready. I'm ready to just see what it looks like to like, go through the right. Like I knew it was gonna get ugly. So I remember writing out like a one page thing where I was. I know this is gonna suck. I know I'm gonna struggle with money. I know. Like I just, I know all these things are gonna happen.

And I took a picture of that piece of paper and I found it like two years later. I was like, I predicted the future. Like, I struggle with all those things, but I knew why I was stepping up to the plate to like, go down this path. Like I, I wanted to see the person that I could become in the process. And I think that that's part of like what faith is.

It's like, I don't know how it all is gonna happen, but like the changes that are gonna happen internally are eventually gonna make this product successful, are gonna make the podcast successful. Like if people see a pro, a product of us, Brett and Harry being developed and molded through trials and tribulations, like [01:01:00] they're gonna eventually, like if they stick around long enough, see something that's like, okay, these guys have been through stuff that's real and they can speak to real problems.

Um, and I think that's like kind of where we've gotten to. It's like it hasn't been perfect. It's been an incredibly fun journey. We've stuck it up together like this brotherhood. Um, and I think that we've relied heavily on like just this faith aspect where neither of us, I think we both kinda like, walked away from our upbringing with faith.

Like I think Brett has his own separate story, but like, I grew up in a family where we would go to church on Sunday or we'd go to Sunday school. Mm-hmm. But there was no like deeper relationship outside of kind of just like knowing that that was like a good moral compass. And for me, like I think I early on in my life with gravitated towards that, like I liked Sunday school, I liked kind of like just certain elements of it and always felt like kind of weird about that and then gravitated away from it.

Like for no particular reason other than just kinda like being part of like [01:02:00] going to college and starting to like drink more and beer on the influences that I wasn't even really realizing how much they were influencing me. And then, you know, kind of just like go through it, through like the whole process of being like, you know, in this job that I was like, man, is this it?

Um, and then like, wanting something different, like getting down to Austin, kind of just realizing like I've completely, for like six years after graduation, I've completely ignored faith and spirituality. Like I've been thinking, like mindset and like working on, like physically improving myself, but like totally ignored the, the spiritual aspect.

So I just had a, a friend who is like nice enough to invite me to church and, uh, that was completely, completely life changing. Like, I met, uh, my pastor who has been incredibly influential in my life in Brett's life. Um, just like a, an older guy who's like transformed his life, um, through his belief in God and through just kind of letting God like take control [01:03:00] of his life.

He has an amazing family, three kids, beautiful wife. And, um, just someone like, I extremely respect and I think like someone who doesn't necessarily have like all these nice material things, but he has like pure passion for what he does. And um, yeah, it was just like through that process of detaching and kind of deconstructing my faith that I realized that I'd, I had totally whiffed, I had missed this massive aspect of life that is actually like the foundation of everything.

And I think for our business it's been incredibly influential in just us, like going deeper down the entrepreneurial path. Like how much of entrepreneurship is faith and just like how much of creating a good product is. And a good brand and all these things like are just a product of you. Mm-hmm. Like you as a person.

So it's been amazing, um, these last few years, like especially doing it with Brett, like it's been, it's been really powerful. Yeah. I think faith also, like, just having that certainty that you don't know [01:04:00] how exactly it's gonna work out, but just certainty that it will. Mm-hmm. And things will sort of like create its path and you'll get to where you need to go, but just having certainty.

Our favorite like thing to do is like, if we're feeling [01:05:00] [01:06:00] [01:07:00] [01:08:00] [01:09:00] [01:10:00] [01:11:00] [01:12:00] [01:13:00] [01:14:00] [01:15:00] [01:16:00] [01:17:00] [01:18:00] [01:19:00] [01:20:00] [01:21:00] [01:22:00] [01:23:00] [01:24:00] [01:25:00] [01:26:00] too.