#397 Alec Jaffe: Reinventing Ice Cream with Regenerative Dairy

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[00:00:00] Alec, welcome to Austin. This is gonna be probably on my favorite topic, to be honest. Yeah. So excited. Yeah, thanks for having me. Excited to be here. I think Harry's, you, you probably are the Dairy King. He eats, he eats pins of ice cream faster than anyone that I've ever met.

Yeah, it's a single serving. Yes, exactly. You single scoop. And you guys are so generous. 'cause before we met, I think your wife, Ali and yourself, you guys sent us a bunch of pints. Mm-hmm. We crushed all those thank. And then this morning you guys literally hand dropped off your new culture cups as well. Yes.

So we had to sample a couple of those in honor to be coming on. Yeah, of course. Which we, yeah. And we have, is it, is it mint chip or is it mint? The and Culture Cup. It's uh, mint chocolate cookie. Mint Chocolate cookie. And then you have the peanut butter. Peanut butter cup. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Those are, they're excellent.

Collectively distributing those around the office today. Just making sure that the word didn't get out too much. Yeah. I like saved that secret stash in the freezer. Yeah. Yeah. I had to save one for Chad. We might honestly just take all of them out of the freezer and just bring 'em back home and just sell for [00:01:00] support and potentially hey, you know, I think, uh, I think that's not a bad call.

Yeah. Yeah. We were so, we were so pumped when you guys had reached out because we always loved beating founders of just like, truly better for you CPG brands. You guys blending regenerative mi, regenerative dairy and ice cream and warm and doing it, the way you guys are doing it is so awesome because it proves that you can truly make a delicious product that has like high, high integrity ingredients.

Um, 'cause you guys really care about your customers too. So, man, I think to start off as I'd love to learn a little bit more about your story and where you were pre 2020 prior to getting in the whole dairy space.

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Yeah, totally. Um, so I, I guess I'll, I'll start from the very beginning. Um, I taught myself how to make ice cream as a little kid.

In elementary school. We had Acra class project where we had to make something at home, bringing into class present how, what we made, and I, you know. Ice cream fanatic, always loved ice cream. And I was like, I wanna teach myself how to make ice cream. And so I got a little recipe book, a [00:02:00] Cuisinart ice cream maker, and taught myself how to make this french custard style ice cream base and mix.

Um, I made peppermint stick as my first flavor, which we still need to make, uh, a peppermint stick, uh, winter seasonal for Alex Ice cream. But, um, so I did that and it was just kind of a, you know, hobby. And then I also grew up around family involved in sustainable agriculture and food systems. And so I grew up going to their, um, organic dry farm vineyard, um, in Central California, uh, every year for Thanksgiving for family reunions.

And so I grew up learning about soil health and water tables, um, and these things that people weren't really talking about 20, 25 years ago. And, um, that is kind of those two experiences really leading to, I. The ultimate inspiration for Alex Ice Cream, but along with that was an athlete in college. Um, and so nutrition was very important to me and the quality of the food, what is actually [00:03:00] going into the food that I'm eating really mattered a lot.

Um, and so, but at the same time, ice cream was always the thing that I wanted to eat, uh, as my, uh, dessert or sweet treat of choice. And when I looked at what ice creams I was eating versus everything else that I was eating, the two were like kind of polar opposites as far as like sourcing quality, what was in the, in the product, um, and just overall kind of like what it stood for.

Um, and so I felt like that was good. Uh, good reason to create something on my own that I felt like wasn't ice cream, and really showing that ice cream or food in general. Can taste amazing and do better for your body and the planet. And that's really the ultimate kind of like value behind what we're doing at Alex Ice Cream.

banger
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Mm, that's awesome. There's, um, it's so funny, I was just, as you were talking, I was thinking about when Brett and I first started the show, [00:04:00] we were writing on Twitter a bunch, and I had an ice cream maker. And I remember like growing up, my mom would always say ice cream is a food group. And she meant it in like ice cream's, like a health food.

And I was always like, that's kind of crazy. But it's, if, if you actually look at it, it's actually so true. Like raw, you can make it with raw dairy, eggs, honey, maybe some fruit in there. Like that's, that's healthy objectively. And um, I, I think like for the most part what like the big ice cream brands have done is like throw in a bunch of sweeteners, make it basically like a candy bar as opposed to like a naturally grown food.

So I love what you guys are doing and I feel like there's so much room in this better for you space that you guys are playing in. Um, especially in ice cream. It's like if you can get people's heads thinking a little bit healthier around something like that, like how many other decisions are they gonna make, um, throughout the course of their shopping experience that are just like marginally better that will help them in the long run.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I look at this as us being able to represent this [00:05:00] paradigm shift that we're seeing throughout the grocery store where people are looking for things that are made more naturally with more real ingredients, um, and are better for you, but also still wanting things to taste good. Like we can eat.

Healthy and also enjoy the food that we're eating. And I recog, I saw that this was happening really across the grocery store, but I didn't really see that in the ice cream aisle. It was like, I could either buy good tasting, indulgent ice cream, but the ingredients were not great. And you could sort of feel that afterwards.

You don't feel great after you eat those ice creams. Or I could buy, you know, a quote unquote better for you, ice cream that has a bunch of sugar alcohols in it and is artificially low calories or, uh, you know, plant-based, which just never really ended up tasting as good as the real thing. And like, if you're gonna have ice cream if, and it doesn't taste good, what's the point of eating ice cream?

banger
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There's a lot of other things you can eat. Um, [00:06:00] and so I wanted to bring that to the ice cream aisle, um, and just sh you know, give people that choice that you can find that nutritional value, but also not sacrifice the taste. I love what you said. It seems like there's, uh, there's almost like a paradigm shift that you have to have.

Around like the food can actually have impeccable ingredients and tastes and delicious at the same time. Yeah. We think those things are almost mutually exclusive and they shouldn't be. Yeah. A restaurant we're all gonna go to tonight, die Do a, it's one of our, they were restaurants in town and we had the owner Jesse Rfu on the podcast a few months ago.

And so he's like really into hunting and regenerative agriculture and like all their ingredients are sourced in Texas and they cook in beef tallow too, which is awesome. But he, he said that everything changed, his perspective on food changed when he went to work at a restaurant in Italy and the simplicity of the dishes, it would be like a six ingredient dish, but it would taste so good versus like coming from America where everything's like really old but done and there all these additives.

And I feel like that's very similar to what you're [00:07:00] doing where you try your ice cream and it tastes so delicious, but then you look at the back of the label, you're like, these ingredients are immaculate, but it can taste this good. Like it's such an important paradigm shift, don't you think i I com the I completely agree.

The. Metaphor that I like to use is buying a tomato. You're, which aligns nicely with the Italian re restaurant, like buying a regular conventional tomato at a grocery store in the US versus buying a dry farmed tomato at the farmer's market that you like. You can just feel the difference in the tomato and that dry farmed organic tomato that maybe isn't as pretty as that perfectly looking, uh, conventionally grown tomato.

It's gonna taste so much better and it's gonna be more nutritious. It's gonna be literally better for you, um, with the nutrient density, um, in the food. And that's the same thing with, with our ice cream. We're using organic regeneratively raised grass fed dairy. We're using regenerative [00:08:00] organic cane sugar.

We're using like real quality farmed ingredients and like that not only is better for the planet, better for your health, but like it actually tastes better too. You have, you know, grass fed butter versus regular butter, like that grass fed, like golden butter, like it's gonna taste way better on your toast, you know?

Um, and so that's what we're doing, uh, with our ingredients. When you were just getting started, was there anything for you where you felt like the idea was really getting validated? Just like, Hey, this is actually a concept worth going after? 'cause dairy in 2020 was a totally different scene than dairy in 2025.

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Yeah. Um, there were kind of these like, I, I like to look at these small signals that I feel like are indicative of where things are going. And so at that time, um, people were starting to talk, um, about quality dairy, [00:09:00] um, you know, the impacts of regenerative grazing and, but it was still very niche. People weren't really talking about it and I just really believed in it, honestly.

Um. So it was kind of going out on a limb of like, I'm gonna align myself with this niche community that is really seeing the benefits of this and, and looking at the science of the impacts of regeneratively grazed dairy and beef versus conventional. And the disconnect on some of the studies that are highlighting like, cows are the enemy.

Um, well, are they the enemy always or are they the enemy when they're put into this artificially like manufactured industrial farming setting where it's not even the cow's fault necessarily. Like we've always had cows on our planet and grazing animals. And, um, and so yeah, it was, it was really just kind of that leap of faith, honestly, in, in believing in the values that I felt were right.

What were you doing pre Alex? [00:10:00] So pre Alex, I was working at a tech startup. Um, I was doing sales and marketing for this, um, like B2B software that we were trying to get off the ground. And I was the, one of the first, I was really the first business side, like non-tech programmer hire at the company. Um, it ended up not really doing going anywhere.

Um, and so as that company was, was in the process of shutting down, I was just thinking about, well, what do I want to do? And then, so I'm just, you know, working on recipes at home, getting like really obsessive about like the details of how many egg yolks, how many, how much cream in this recipe versus that recipe, which one tasted better.

Um, and spent a lot of time on the product development. And that for me is the biggest thing that I've taken from that, uh, tech experience and brought into the ice cream exper, um, ice cream, uh, business is like, and it sounds kind of obvious, but the quality of the product just needs to be. So good. There's such a high bar for people on what [00:11:00] they are want to buy, what they wanna spend their time with.

Everything is competing for their attention. And so really, really being so deep on the product, um, was, was very important for me. Yeah. What were those standards that you had? So you're, so like you go from r and d to taking a leap of faith to getting the manufacturing facility and launching Alex. What were like, uh, the hardcore principles that you really wanted to stick to?

Because it's obviously you regenerated milk and, and the ingredients now, was that always the intention from day one of when you guys started to, so it. I didn't even like a regenerative certification or anything like that. It was around, but it really wasn't being talked about. I had never heard about it when I was getting started.

So for us, when we started, um, we move into our factory and we find the shutdown down ice cream factory in Sonoma County. We move in there January, 2020, um, and we start working with a local creamery that is sourcing organic, pasture raised dairy from local family farms. Um, the town that we're in, Petaluma has a [00:12:00] really rich dairy history.

You can find these families that have been dairy farming there for, you know, hundreds of years, generations, like just, it's pretty cool. Um, and the pandemic hits, the whole supply chain goes crazy. Um, and it was really hard as this tiny, tiny business to even source organic cream. Um. People were cooking more at home, so they needed more butter.

Um, and or like heavy cream. It just like, and then ice cream, the market was going crazy and we weren't even out in stores yet at that point to like take advantage of that ice cream boom that happened during the pandemic. Um, and so through that we were like, well, our dairy supply just got cut off because the supplier that we were working with, um, was no longer able to sell to us.

'cause they were like, kind of sold out to, um, other customers who could order in larger quantities. And that led us to finding, um, the Alexander [00:13:00] family, um, and getting introduced to them. And I went up to their farm, um, and saw the impacts of their regenerative grazing practices and learned about. Like, okay.

Regenerative as a more formalized like system of farming. Um, and it was at the end of August in California, everything is very dry and brown in California at the end of August. And their pastures were like perfectly green. It just was the most idealized form of a dairy farm that you could, like, you, you think about what a dairy farm should look like and you're like, oh yeah, this is it.

Um, and I knew from that moment like, okay, this is amazing 'cause this allows us to further our mission, um, and like really what we stand for. So to get back to your question of it had to be organic, had to be like pasture raised or grass fed. And really ultimately it's creating the best tasting ice cream with the best quality ingredients.

And that's what I set out to create. Um, [00:14:00] and. Now with Culture Cup coming into the mix, it shows even more so that you can create this ice cream that is like truly better for you with those best quality ingredients. Um, and have it still taste amazing. Was choosing to work with them at Alexander Family Farm, did that feel like a big decision at the time that you were going more or less all in with this, this, uh, farm that at that point they weren't all that big?

No, we, we kind of met them at a perfect point in both of our trajectories where they're, they were a, a couple years ahead of us in getting into the market. Um, but they were still pretty new. And we had, and we were also very new, and so we needed somebody who could supply us in a big enough quantities to like run our factory, but also not huge quantities.

Like we can't, we didn't have the volume to bring in these giant, you know, tankers of milk every day that, um. [00:15:00] A lot of suppliers want to do. 'cause that's just, you know, you'd rather sell it in larger quantities. And for them, they also like, had enough supply to support a customer like us who needed enough dairy, but also not too much.

Um, and so it was just kind of this perfect, perfect match. Um, but it was a risk. I mean we we're, and this is kind of across the board, we paid more for our ingredients 'cause we're getting, you know, this organic regenerative grass fed a two dairy, um, going with a single source. So we were like, like a single origin ice cream, you know?

Um, and that there are some operational challenges there. Um, but I felt like despite that it was just so obviously for us, the right move based on what we want to stand for. Um, so we did it. Um, and it was a really awesome, uh, I. Partnership, working, working with them, like, you know, just getting things going off the ground.

And it's amazing to see their brand [00:16:00] continue to grow and people finding their products and their products are, are amazing. It's amazing. It seems like when you Cedar milk at a grocery store, it's like a badge of honor for someone to carry. It's just like such a, like, just nice branding and then the quality of the product is amazing too.

Mm-hmm. Um, one of the things I want to ask you, so when Harry and I started our supplement brand, noble Yeah. We knew nothing about CPG. Yeah. We kind of threw ourselves into it. We're very naive, which was kinda like a blessing. And then also had the same with challenges. We were amazed at how many companies just leverage manufacturers to do like all the sourcing and formulation for them.

Mm-hmm. Is there any equivalent to that in ice cream or is it like, Hey, if you want to get into the ice cream space, you need to buy a factory and do this yourself and make it by hand? Uh, very similar to the experience you saw. Um, most brands, just about all brands that you're seeing in the store, um, are being co manufactured by somebody else.

You know, and we've had brands come to us, uh, to, you know, brands come to us [00:17:00] to say like, Hey, can you make our our ice cream for us? And we say like, great. Yeah. Like, what's your, what's your recipe? What's your formula? Like, we don't know. Our co-packer has it, and for us, we're so obsessed with our product. Or it's like, how, how can you not know how your ice cream is made?

Um, and so for us, having our own manufacturing is a huge source of pride and a huge advantage because we've developed relationships with all of our suppliers. Um, we know who they are, we know the farmers, and then we're handling those ingredients so we're able to work with them and really understand what's going into the product and also what's going out from our factory to stores.

Um, and so, you know, the quality control and the care around the quality is, um, something that I, I think is a, a huge advantage for us being a manufacturer. And it's hard like. Manufacturing ice cream is not an easy thing to do. Um, and then sell it around the country as this [00:18:00] really small brand that's working with third party warehouses, third party distributors, and um, you know, competing against these like major brands.

There, there are a lot of challenges in, in just the manufacturing aspect of it. Um, but I real, when we have the conversations like, should we keep manufacturing or like, should we look at co-packing like everyone else is doing it? And every time we go through that thought exercise, it just comes back to like, no, we want to keep making our product 'cause it's what we believe in.

Hmm. How'd you guys go about just, uh, coming out with all the different skews that you guys have? 'cause I feel like, I mean, that must be the best job. It's so much fun. Yeah. Like coming up with ice cream flavors. Go on. Like, I mean, yeah, like my 11:00 AM meeting is, you know, okay, I gotta try this variation of mint chip.

Like, all right. Um, yeah, it's, so we do all of our flavor development in-house as well. Um, we have an r and d lead, Josh, who is amazing. And, um, he and the team, we, you know, we [00:19:00] just are always thinking of new ideas. And with ice cream, it is like a flavor driven category ultimately. So you always have to be innovating, thinking of new ideas to bring out.

Um, and so for us it's about how can we keep leading on flavor innovation, um, while still sticking with the ingredient standards that we have. And, um, that can be limiting in some ways. Like, for example, uh. Uh, the chocolate chips that we use in our, in our ice cream, um, they, they are kind of just like we, we found these amazing tasting chocolate chips are organic.

They, they meet a lot of, a lot of our quality standards. Um, but they have, uh, han in them and it's an organic lesson than, and like I, you know, I think you can go back and forth on like how bad less than it is. Like is it really that? But we're like, okay, well we want to like, keep pushing what we're doing and we wanna remove any lessens in our, in our ice [00:20:00] cream that are coming from sort of off the shelf ingredients.

So what that has meant is we have to go on a whole sourcing discovery project to find a chocolate chunk manufacturer who's willing to make a lesser than free chocolate chunk at our quantities. Um, do it organic, certified, you know, it. Don't use any like bad ingredients that we don't, we don't allow in our products.

That's hard to do at Subscale. And so, um, the innovation and like flavor development is also us having to really kind of build our own supply chains in a lot of ways from something as huge as dairy to something as small as a chocolate chip. Um, and so there's a lot of thought going into every ingredient that we're, that we're sourcing and sometimes having to custom create.

Hmm. I think that's, this is one of the reasons why we love podcasting. It's a very cool jux juxtaposition because you see [00:21:00] like your incredible packaging, uh, in the freezer section at a Whole Foods, and you try the flavors and they're delicious. But the cool thing about podcasting is you actually learn.

Like this really is a labor of love for you guys. Yeah. From like every aspect of the supply chain to the time it hits the shelf. Like it really, it really is a labor of love and it seems like it's probably incredibly difficult and the most rewarding thing at the same time. Mm-hmm. Like, what's kind of like, what's the reality from like 2020 to now?

Like how challenging has it actually been behind the scenes going from this very stable, like, you know, sales and marketing career to what you, you know, to what you guys are doing now? Yeah. Um,

very challenging. I mean, my wife is sitting over there. She could, uh, she could tell you how, how rough some moments have been. Um, I mean, where do I start? I, I think there, there are the ups and downs in the rollercoaster of entrepreneurship [00:22:00] and starting anything that's. Gonna be just an incredible challenge from going from nothing.

An idea to creating something, getting a product out into market, getting, building a team around you, getting people to buy into your vision. Um, and then dealing with all the challenges of a manufactured physical product from cash flow to quality issues of like, oh, we just, um, we, we just lost this batch of product that was tens of thousands of dollars.

Or we had a full truckload breakdown that was carrying, you know, over a hundred thousand dollars worth of ice cream that just all the ice cream melted. 'cause the truck just like stopped, the freezer stopped working. How do you manage those, those moments? Um. We have a, a company value that's called, uh, next Play Mentality.

A lot of our company values are, are from my football background. But, you know, it's like, okay, great, you, you know, in the sports you, you score a point, you hit a home run, you score a touchdown, like [00:23:00] that's awesome. You can celebrate that, that play, but there's gonna be another play like coming Right? Or you through an interception like that sucks, but like, what are you gonna do on the next drive?

And bringing that mentality into the business has really been helpful of like, man, there's gonna be so many challenges to what we're dealing with internally, but then also externally, we're going into this very crowded category in ice cream competing against some major brands that are owned by major international conglomerates that have infinite budget compared to what we have.

And. Trying to also educate on regenerative agriculture and a two dairy, and a lot of people in the store don't even know what that is yet. Um, and so how do we win those people over? How do we get creative about bringing people in to what we're about sometimes with just like, Hey, you wanna try this really amazing tasting ice cream?

Look at this cool flavor, and by the way, you're actually doing something that's better for the planet and better for your body. Um, and [00:24:00] so finding those winds have, are a challenge. Like it's, it's probably the hardest thing that I've ever done. Yes. Um, and like you said earlier, the naivety that you have to have, I think, to get into it.

'cause if you know how hard it is and you know the challenge and you know the odds that you're going up against, if you know all that going in, you're kinda like, why? There's no logical reason to do it other than just having this really intense belief around. I need to do this because this needs to exist in the world.

That's kind of the only thing that can drive you towards entering that kind of challenge that is starting a anything really. Um, but yeah, starting an ice cream business, if for anyone who's in CPG, they know that's not for the faint of heart. It's, it's, it's brutal. Well, thanks for, thanks for sharing that and the authenticity too.

'cause Harry and I [00:25:00] have talked a lot openly about our journey. Yeah. This has been the most difficult or the most rewarding thing that you've ever done. Yeah. And it's like every, it almost feels like one day you feel like everything is going to shit, and then the next day you'll like. You'll see someone wi, like you pro someone at Whole Foods that you don't even know is like picking up ads and being like, this is my favorite ice cream.

They don't even know it's your product. Like wins like that. Or someone big that like will DM the Instagram account and be like, Hey, I've been used, you know, I can't get enough of your ice cream. Yeah. Like these wins that just make up for, it's almost like a sign from God to keep going to. But I think, I think it's important for more founders to openly talk about this stuff.

'cause it really just is part of the journey trying to do something really special. Yeah, it's so funny. It's, and it's even like within the day, you can have that swing. Uh, the other day I, you know, the other, yeah. Right in within the hour the other day. Um, you know, we're, we're launching this new product culture cup this week and, um, the reactions that we'd be getting on social media before it's even come out [00:26:00] in stores has just been insane.

Like, hundreds of thousands of views and comments that we've never experienced anything like this groundswell of just organic support for what we're doing. Um, and so the vibes were high at the factory and at the office, you know, everyone's feeling good. Everyone's just riding high. And then, uh, you have a, like a tough call and like, Hey, we have to like, consider this for cash flow, like later in the day with accounting.

And then I'm like, shoot, how am I gonna manage this? And we're loading up on inventory for these big launches and just the challenges that you go through as a, as a business, um. And it's so funny how you can feel on top of the world. Nothing can stop me to, man, this is really hard. Um, within a matter of hours.

Um, but that's part of the journey. It, it really is. And, and one piece of advice that I've, I've gotten that has really been helpful for me, uh, is to expect the challenges to come, because that's just part of it. [00:27:00] And I think sometimes where it gets really hard is when you don't expect the challenges, because then you're like, uh, why?

Like, why am I being hit with this like, obstacle? But if you know that the obstacle is part of it, it's natural to be met with those. I think it allows you to really just objectively look at it and say, all right, like this is happening. Like what are we gonna do about it? Versus, you know, spending a whole day, you know, freaking out about something that, all right, the thing is here, like you have to handle it now.

Mm-hmm. Um, so that has been a. The kind of like mindfulness aspect of things has really been, for me, a huge part of this journey as well. I love the, uh, the takeaway from, from sports. The next play up. We, we might have to steal that. No, please do anything else from just your sports background that you feel like has helped carry you through this, you know, initial phase of starting Alex?

Yeah. Um, [00:28:00] I think it's just that perseverance. Um, and really it's the perseverance and the irrational belief. So persevering through, you know, I wasn't the, the biggest guy on the field. I wasn't the fastest. I wasn't the strongest, but, um, you know, I'm gonna be, be tough and I'm gonna persevere through any challenge.

And like, if I get knocked down here, I'm gonna get back up and, you know, get after it. And then also I think to be an athlete and to perform at a high level, you have to have this irrational belief that you. Are one, able to do it, and that you deserve really almost to be in that spot and just like have this huge confidence in yourself that you can perform.

Um, and that's sort of what I've brought into this. Uh, when I think about, you know, getting into it and, and how I just sort of handle myself and, and think about this, these challenges that we have to go up against, um, is like, [00:29:00] I'm the, I, you know, have the ability and I'm the best person for this job and I can do it.

And, you know, not to, not in an arrogant way, but just in a, like, you gotta believe in yourself. And I, I think that kind of self-confidence is, is something that I've, I've brought to it. I would have to think too, um, like this, so this year was the first time we went to Expo West. Yeah. And so Noble did have a boot, but we were like, let's just get tickets and walk the floor and meet some people and see what serendipity comes from it.

And we were just so blown away at the number of other supplement brands that were there. Yeah. That we had never heard of that had like, the most beautiful exhibits you've ever seen. And it actually added a lot of confidence to both of us because we were like, if these brands can do it, why can't we do this stuff too?

Have you felt that similarly, like just building relationships and meeting other big brands and founders and stuff like that? Yeah. You, you start to get a peek behind the curtain and you, you realize that they're all just people. They're all just, you know, they're just [00:30:00] like us. And, um, and a lot of times as we've started to like work with other companies, um, either, you know, potentially co-packing for them and, and making their ice cream in our, in our factory, you see like how disorganized and chaotic other places can be, and you're like, oh, we actually have our stuff buttoned up pretty good.

Um, and, and yeah, I, I think it's, you know, you just go out there and see what, what other people are doing. You're like, yeah, I can do this too. Hmm. Is there anything that you feel like you've been like Rev, that's been revealed to you that you're like, uniquely qualified to do within the business world and then like, the opposite of that question, like wherever your blind spot's been.

I think going through this, you really, you really develop a lot of self-awareness of what am I good at, what am I not good at? What do I like doing and not doing? For me, I've found that I think my best ability is [00:31:00] building a, a team of people and getting them to buy into that vision. Um, and then managing that team along the journey.

Um, and so being able to work with the marketing team and also work with the production floor team and connect with. Each one of those people as individuals, hear them, hear the, the things that they're excited about, what their goals are, what their challenges are, and you know, just help them grow into the best version of themselves, um, within the company.

And it's been really cool to see over now, you know, getting a few years into this where we've got people who have been at the company 3, 4, 5 years, and seeing their growth, uh, from when they started to where they're at now, has been very cool. Um, and so I take a lot of pride in that. And, and I think that that's something that I've, I always felt like I was good at, but [00:32:00] I, I've really enjoyed growing that ability in myself.

And then, um, I think also recognizing what you're not as good at. Um, you know, I think like. Learning how to be understand more of the financial management thing, which is like, so important kind of obviously for any business. But there's a lot of complexity when you get into being a manufacturing business.

We've got, we have what, 19 SKUs now out in the market. All those skews have a bunch of different ingredients coming from a bunch of different suppliers. Managing all that, thinking through how to really be effective at financially managing the business in that way is something that I've improved a lot at over the, over the years of the choir.

Um, but was not my skill. I came in being like, I'm gonna make an amazing product and like I can, you know, connect with the people on the team and then build this, this company. Um. [00:33:00] Sometimes I think about it, like to go back to sports, like being a gm mm-hmm. Where you're like building the roster around you of this like team.

Um, and so I love that aspect of it, but yeah, you really now my biggest goal is how can I almost fire myself out of as many different jobs that I have, uh, within the company and start to, as we grow as a business, um, start to build that real team around me with the right people, the right resources to really go after the, this goal that I see that we have now in front of us to build this like next legacy brand in the freezer.

Like how can we be that? When you think about, you know, the soda aisle, you think about Coca-Cola, when you think about the ice cream, you probably think about Ben and Jerry's and Haagen-Dazs. How can we be the next version of Ben and Jerry's? And that's where I see us going. I. I love what you just said around the goal actually being to fire yourself.

Yeah. I think Tim Ferriss kind of talked about that a while ago in the four hour work week where he [00:34:00] was like, if I can go on a vacation for a couple weeks and I can come back and everything is humming, that's end that you have an amazing business where like you and your wife can go on vacation. You come back and everything is just humming.

That's such an amazing goal, and in the beginning you feel like you're doing everything and you're eating is so much shit that it's hard to imagine. Yeah. Delegating those things and then you hard to like, you know, put the right people in place and hire the right agencies and then all of a sudden you're like, wow, this, I used to do all the customer service tickets and now this customer service rep is, loves it and he or she's doing so much better than me.

And just starting to see the flywheel, like the gears churning that are not dependent on you is such a, it's such an amazing feeling. Just seeing and feeling that scalability. It's, it's definitely the thing that I think I. Will allow us to keep growing. And it is so exciting. And it's also, I think one of the most challenging things about being a founder is actually doing that, of firing yourself.

And I found that as I think about, okay, who are our next senior [00:35:00] hires that we wanna bring in to where I can really, you know, delegate out these major responsibilities? And then I was thinking about, well then what am I doing? You know, like they're doing all the stuff that I do now. And it's like, well, well no, now, now I can elevate myself to really be effective at guiding where we're going for the next, uh, you know, the next five to 10 years.

And really be thinking about those things. And also think, you know, thinking about what's working, what's not working within the company, and kind of have that different view. But it, it's so hard to. Detach yourself because you get attached to everything and you, and as a founder, you have a very specific way that you want things done.

Um, but you have to also trust that your team, you're bringing in the right people and that they're gonna do those things. But it is, it's not easy. It's a, it's a very weird, um, mental, uh, tug of war between like, just can someone take all this off my plate? And also, like, I don't want anyone to take this off my plate because I'm attached to [00:36:00] it.

Yeah. You don't even wanna do it, but yet you hoard it and finally like, stop doing that. Yeah. You're like, this person is so much better. They love doing the thing that I don't wanna do at all. Huh? Like, just, you know, 'cause you were saying you're sales and marketing, so I'm sure you love being out in the field and Oh, yeah.

Yeah. There's people that feel that way about financial management. They love financial management as much as you love selling. Yeah. I feel like that's a big paradigm shift where there's people that you can hire that love to do the things that you hate, and they're gonna do it so much better than you and it will free you up to do the things that you're meant to focus on.

Totally. Could not agree more with that. Yeah. Are there any, uh, brands or entrepreneurs that you look to for inspiration, um, as you're kind of pioneering in this space? Yeah, yeah. Um, I mean, I think what's really interesting is there's a couple different, different areas. One, just the, some of the other brands in the regenerative space that are really pushing the [00:37:00] messaging and the, and the mission out there.

Um, you know, from an Alexander to force of nature, um, to white oak pastures like these people out there who are really pioneering, um, pioneering this and, and looking at how they're talking about what they're doing, what's really resonating with people. Um, and, and, and I'm grateful to them and the work that they're, they're doing and to everyone in the, that regenerative movement.

Um, I like to call it that is, is doing the work. Um, and then I also look at what's been happening in the soda category, um, as a really interesting, just look into the future at where things have gone, um, or where they're going. Um, the, what op and Poppy have done to take a category as sort of, um, uh, like [00:38:00] fundamental to the American lifestyle and diet, like drinking a can of Coke, drinking a can of Pepsi, uh, like it's such a core part of the American lifestyle and they've totally flipped it on its head of saying like, you can have this, but also have it with better ingredients and like, have this thing that's a little better for you.

Um, I mean, we can get into like how much better for you, uh, a prebiotic soda is, but I, I think the like. The principle of what they're doing. Um, like I really love what OP does with their ingredients and having a lot of science backed, um, ingredients in their product. Um, and so seeing what they've done, taking on these major, major players and kind of redefining where the category is going, I think is what I'm trying to do for ice cream is how can we be the op of ice cream in a way where we're saying like, you can have that other stuff too.

And like, I don't, I'm not even necessarily out here to talk about how bad. [00:39:00] I don't really like to talk about like, oh, those people are bad. Like, you know, I want to bring out positivity of like, look at this good that you can have. And here's what we are about. We are about sharing good of being. We like to call ourselves the happy ambassadors of the regenerative movement.

We are here to spread positivity with a happy product like ice cream. And so here's this amazing tasting product that you can have with all this goodness in it and behind it. Um. So, yeah, that's what, that's what we're trying to do. And that's sort of like, uh, I think a, a, a good parallel for, for who I look at love the soda category as a comp for ice cream.

Like, it just seems like they play off each other well and there's just similar opportunities in both categories. Yeah, I mean, it's kind of interesting in the sense of both categories are two of the first things a doctor will tell you to cut outta your diet if you're trying to get healthier. Like, gotta get rid of the sodas, we gotta cut down on the ice cream.

Uh, it's kind of like, you know, some classic [00:40:00] like prescriptive advice from a doctor and what they've done and what we are doing is showing like that's not necessarily true. It's maybe rethink which sodas and which ice creams are in your diet and which ones can be actually additive to your diet. Um, I. So like with Culture Cup, we're putting billions of probiotics into this ice cream cup.

We're adding prebiotic fiber. So it is this like very symbiotic, uh, product where it actually is function like the probiotics and the prebiotics are like making each other stronger within our ice cream. Um, and in your gut microbiome. And so like, how can you create this product that is not only just not as bad for you, um, but is actually better for you and adding to your health?

And I think that's with regenerative agriculture too, which I'll, I'll explain what I mean in a second. But this also this mindset [00:41:00] shift of how can we, rather than going from, I'm going to stop doing things that are bad for me versus I'm gonna start doing things that are good for me. And regenerative agriculture is a very similar idea of the kind of sustainability or.

Just sort of like baseline of organic is we're gonna stop doing bad things. We're gonna stop spraying harmful chemicals on our food. How can we advance that even further? Take organic, which is amazing, which I'm a very big believer in. Um, and actually start playing offense against climate change, play offense against industrial food and start making food and agricultural systems that are better for us on the planet, um, and regenerating our planet versus just like doing, not doing the bad thing anymore.

Definitely. Yeah. What you're getting at, it's kind of marked a shift in our show and what Harry and I have got really passionate about talking about where we wanna put an end to the diet wars, and for now our principles are like, [00:42:00] as long, you know, supporting local farmers, single ingredient, real foods.

Yeah. And almost like a libertarian view of like, it's up to you to figure out. What combinations of those foods work great. Yeah. There's people that are carnivore, keto, animal based, you know, Mediterranean, et cetera, that are all in impeccable shape. There's multiple models that work. Yeah. It's like how do you develop that own intuition to figure out what works best for you?

Like if you only eat meat and drink water and don't want every ice cream, like God bless you, that's amazing. But I don't think the three of us wanna live a life without ice cream. Or like, yeah, I love a little good quality soda every once in a while too. Like I would like to be able to keep those things in and you know, have products that are delicious and high ingredients.

And also like having things like Alex Ice Cream, or Zvi or something like that, or some Noble Protein that helps me be sustainable. So I actually don't want to go. Path. Yeah. You know, like, and that's the whole point is like sustainability and just resiliency too. I'm really happy that you brought that up and like that you guys are [00:43:00] sharing that message because I think it is one of the things that does bother me about the industry that we are in is that there is this element of almost fear mongering in a way.

Absolutely. And like, you have to eat this, uh, not to pick on it, but like carnivore, like you have to be carnivore or you know, you have to be paleo or you have to be keto or whatever. And like if you're not doing that, like here's all this bad things that are gonna happen to you. And I just, it bothers me a lot because like you said, different diets work for different people and there's a lot of.

Just balance that needs to be in our lives. And you don't need to be so aggressively militant about every single thing. Like you can have some balance. And I think it's important to have that. Um, and I think it's also important not to be so prescriptive to other people on what they should be eating or drinking or, you know, [00:44:00] putting in the, like it's their choice.

Um, and what works for them may not work for you or vice versa. Um, and so again, that's why I'm like, I want to be spreading the positivity of like, here is a great option that we're creating. And if you want those other options, like that's cool. That's, that's your choice, but I'm going to provide this option that didn't exist before.

Um, and so that's one thing that I would really like to see us as an industry start to move more towards, of away from this. Fear mongering. And, and I get why, why it works because you can point to this easy common enemy and vilify somebody and, and whatever. Um, but I think it's net harmful to what we're trying to do, which is really bring people in.

It's this, it's also kind of what happens. We're talking about growing regenerative agriculture as a movement. Like you're not gonna go to a farmer and tell and convince them to move over to regenerative farming. [00:45:00] From conventional farming. The way that their generations before them, their family has, has done it by saying, Hey, you're doing something really bad.

Like this sucks. You need to come over here. Like to us, you know, you have to welcome them with open arms and be like, what you're doing is cool, I get it, but like, look at this amazing thing that we can offer and that we're doing over here. And like, do you want to be a part of that? And if we can bring more people in like that versus.

Making them feel terrified about having a can of coke, which like, you have a can of Coke, like, you're gonna be fine. It's like, like sometimes we're talking about, you know, both myself and my wife are very health conscious and if we go out to have a meal that's like a little extra indulgent whatever, she's like, oh man, that wasn't, that wasn't maybe the best choices.

But I like to say that, okay, yeah. That, that meal wasn't, you know, the healthiest whatever, but also one really healthy meal isn't gonna all of a sudden make [00:46:00] you ripped and super healthy and like in the perfect shape. So like, it's about the balance. It's about understanding, like, and making the overall larger good choices, um, but still understanding that it's, you know, there's a lot out there and, and people can make their own choices.

Yeah, there's so many aspects of the food system that I feel like people try to like intentionally overcomplicate. I'm not sure if it's just like. The internet to make things more quick, Beatty or whatever the ultimate like reason is, it doesn't really matter that much. But I do feel like very strongly about, just like simplifying a lot of this stuff, like local and seasonal is such a great framework for being healthy.

Like if you just stuck to local and seasonal, you would be in great shape. You would not need to do too much more. You would need to over index to some crazy biohacking thing that's soulless that makes you feel crazy or like, you know, you know, any, anything else like, like start doing some crazy diet.

Like I think if you just kind of stuck to those basic principles, you'd be in great shape. And I, I think [00:47:00] a lot of it, like I almost laugh thinking about it where it's like a hundred years ago. We wouldn't have been thinking nearly as much as we are today about like, what are we going, it would've been just like so much more simplified.

There were fewer options. Things were just easier. 'cause you were just going up the street to like the local grocery store that only had so many things that was available. 'cause it was local and seasonal or what's growing in your backyard or like Yeah. You know, um, I, I, it's funny, I always struggle with the question when people ask me like, what are your favorite brands?

Like, what products are you loving? And I'm so bad at answering that question because I don't really buy that many. I. Like packaged foods. I just honestly don't, like, we eat a lot of, like, I'm the most boring eater of all time. I eat a bunch of white rice and a bunch of chicken and steak and broccoli and like veg, other vegetables.

Like, and that's what I'm bringing to lunch, uh, to work for lunch. That's what I'm eating for dinner. And then, uh, I like to eat a lot of ice cream and you know, like, of course, we'll, we'll eat, [00:48:00] um, other, obviously other packaged foods too. Like I love purely Elizabeth Cookie granola. Like that stuff has been, uh, a kind of mild obsession for me.

Um, put on some Greek yogurt. Yeah. Oh my god. Yeah. Amazing afternoon snack. So, like, I'm not saying that to brag, but like, I don't, like, I don't buy any packaged foods. Um, it's more just like if you eat, you know these, you know, you eat, eat single ingredient foods, you have produce, you have good protein sources, have good carb sources, like you're gonna feel great.

And that's really what should be making at the bulk of. Of your diet is these just whole foods. And if you do that, you're not gonna have to worry about being so obsessed about all this other stuff because the bulk of your diet is just really good clean natural foods. Hmm. Yeah. I think you guys touched on an important point.

I definitely think that what we were talking about around the social media influencers, I think clickbait is a thousand percent a part of it. Yeah. Like the, it's a double-edged sword because [00:49:00] so many people have like cured autoimmune diseases or reversed things because they've gotten this like decentralization to addressing things from a root cause standpoint, which some influencers do an amazing job at.

Yeah. But now like anything else, you're trying to feed the algorithm and selling fear really will make your stuff go viral. So it's like, yeah, I, I almost have to catch myself on Instagram when I find something that's compelling and clickbaity to like really digest it and be like, do I actually believe this?

Is this just getting an emotional reaction outta me? Like to your point. I don't think demonizing potatoes and coffee beans is the right argument to be having. Like we should be talking about, you know, supporting local farmers and trying to stop buying through like industrial agriculture and, and things like that.

But yeah, also, you know, if you don't eat off a cutting board, you're not even animal based now. Right. So cutting for, yeah. So it's all but, and there's so much good that's come from it and there definitely is that degree of, uh, of fear porn too, but just knowing how to distill between those two things. And like you're saying, you're not eating single ingredient foods to be like, oh, I'm [00:50:00] holier than thou and I don't touch this stuff.

You're like, no, because I know how to make these dishes. They taste so good. Yeah. I feel great. So I just, I keep it simple and I keep going back for that type of stuff. Totally. Yeah. You just don't have to like, think about it as much. Like what are you eating? Yeah, I, I know it's, I think also like the, there's like the cherry picking of studies to really support your point and, um, yeah, I think it's, it's important just to think about how we're talking about these things and, um.

What we're telling people to go buy and go eat. And like, you could probably point to stuff that I've, I've said in the past about, you know, certain things and be like, well, you're a hypocrite. You're doing like, we all have our, our, you know, our thing that we're trying to get out in the world. And I think it's also, I totally understand it because it's also very hard to get someone's attention and get them bought in by making a really nuanced, well, it's all kind of gray and you have to look at this and you have to have balance and you know, like people that's not going to, you know, [00:51:00] stop someone on TikTok or on Instagram where people have like a half second attention span.

You have to really like shock their system to get them to pay attention to what you're saying, which is unfortunate. You know, you can make this parallel now too. Like everything that's going on in the world, um, on whatever, like everything is just so, um. Just like blown up and huge and just like, ah, you know, whereas like if you just sit down and have a conversation and like really like look at, look at things, um, for what they are and really evaluate, you know, all of the elements of what we're we're talking about on whatever topic.

Like, you can come to a really nuance and oftentimes likely agree on the same. Like find a lot of common ground and be like, I, you know, I feel, uh, like this can be a balanced way versus like, you have to be doing this thing. Um, but it's also hard to get people to pay attention Yes. With that [00:52:00] message. Um, and I think that's in the social media era that we're in, it's hard to win with nuance.

Mm-hmm. It's also like semi like a product of like post covid, where I just feel like everyone's so extreme. And so v we got like, put through that period where I think we were just like all like fairly vulnerable to like, what's happening, what's going on? Like no one could really predict what was gonna happen a month from now.

So like we were all kind of just put through like this, almost like borderline traumatic experience. And then we're all like, looking at our phones for answers. Like, you know, the no one's really, I, I don't know, we're all disjointed and isolated, which I think is just such like a, just as, as people like very toxic for, um, our wellbeing.

So like, it's kind of interesting watching it all play out. 'cause I do feel like the power of the internet right now, it's like, it, it's at the extremes, which is kind of, it's a dangerous place to be. Yeah, totally. Um, and I, I think that like everyone does kind of have a [00:53:00] microphone and like you said, people have cured their autoimmune or whatever, uh, you know.

Symptoms they may have had through really shifting their diet to this extreme way of, of being. And it's really changed their lives and that's amazing. Um, and so they're gonna tell that story and people are gonna buy into that story because there are a lot of messed up things that have been going on in our food system.

Um, so I think it's important not to like discredit that mm-hmm. Or, you know, dismiss it. Um, but I think just the way that we're talking about it, um, as a larger like industry and society, I think yes. Could be a little more balanced. Definitely. It's like, you know, what reminds me of is, um, when you see a.

Poppy sell to a Pepsi or a Prime Kitchen, sell to Kraft Heinz. It's like, see, they, you know, the big guys, the, the even big guys got another one and these guys, sellouts and stuff like that. And I'm like, well, number one, these [00:54:00] are family run businesses. The founders literally gate everything. They put their heart and soul into this thing, remortgage their houses, et cetera.

They built an amazing product. And these companies are, you know, they're, these founders are able to change their lives and there's certain benefits to them actually having, like, the distribution power of a large company. Yeah. There's obviously arguments against it too, but again, like this stuff is much more nuanced than we realize.

But that's something I'm seeing a lot of is when a small high integrity brand sells to a larger brand. It's like, yeah, see they're, they're sellouts and it's, it's really interesting. Like there's no nuance there at all anymore, it seems like. Yeah, I saw that a lot with, uh, Ste when they got acquired.

Mm-hmm. Um, awesome company. Um, and do like real pioneer in, you know, in what they've done. And, and with Poppy too, uh, a lot of similar comments of like, people being sad and mad at, at the ste uh, com, like, you know, the family that runs the [00:55:00] business for selling. And I, like, I get, you know, I, I understand the fear of what the conglomerate could do and, and change to the company and the, and the brand and the products.

Um, but also like to not understand why. So, and to be mad at the, the owners and the family for doing that just is so backwards to me. Um, but yeah, and maybe it points to just like distrust of these big companies and how messed up everything has gotten in a lot of ways, um, that people even have that. Got reaction and maybe it's a covid thing of everyone being on their phones all the time and just being so extreme and people almost looking for the negative in anything versus looking for the positive.

Um, but yeah, I mean, I like, I think if you anyone gets in those [00:56:00] shoes and says, Hey, Pepsi wants to buy you for $2 billion, like, it's hard to say no, you know, see if you turn that bill. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I don't think they should be forced to say no. Like, I think you put your, your hard work into it, um, and you get offered that sort of light, like you said, that life changing amount of money, um, like no one's gonna say no to that.

Um, and I don't think you should, should feel obligated to say no to it. And I think also, like you said, I. Now those products are gonna get proliferated out into way wider distribution, have the resources to really continue to grow and make waves within the industry and like change what people are buying.

Um, and so like, if it's handled correctly, can really be impactful for the greater good of what we're trying to all accomplish here in, in changing our system. Hmm. Yes. [00:57:00] Yeah, I totally agree. Especially when you look at like health outcomes for the most part, it's like the disparity is at like the lower end of the socio economic totem pole.

So it's like if those prices of those higher quality goods come down. That's where like the real impact is happening. You know, you're actually able to get marginally healthier or like, even like much more healthier packaged goods in, in, uh, more people's hands who actually need it. Like that might actually really change lives at that point.

Yeah. Like looking at like the whole food, food deserts. Yes. And how do, how do we get, um, you know, okay we have this food desert and this low income community, and now all of a sudden they're getting, uh, STE chips in their convenience store. That's a total game changer for the people who are otherwise buying these GMO corn, really crappy ingredients, uh, potato chips that, uh, are not great for [00:58:00] them.

Um, and so now to be able to have the, even maybe the price accessibility, uh, being able to leverage those big company resources to bring pricing down, like. Again, it's the nuance of like, this could all happen or it could all like, you know, supply chain quality could degrade and they could say like, okay, we're gonna cut a corner here, we're gonna cut a corner there, get a few more points of margin.

Um, so I'm not just like having blind faith in the, in the big company to quote unquote do the right thing. But, um, I think just to say like, oh, this is bad. Like, it could also be really good, you know? Totally. Yeah. You make, you make a good point. I, I would be curious. I kinda wanna ask like, the, on a transaction like that happens and someone gets upset about it.

I'm like, well, what do you, what do you actually think is the right solution then? Like, I understand that like, I, I really do understand a demonization around like a Pepsi or some of these really short brands or why you might be frustrated with them just like historically based on things that have happened.

But [00:59:00] isn't it a good thing that they see viability to actually like. Buy these healthy brands and keep the integrity, like if they don't do that, they're just gonna keep pushing more of their, you know, vegetable oil related products. They're choosing to buy these better for you brands. Yeah. And now, like you're saying, you're gonna be able to access them at scale, you know, at Costco or Ralph's at HEG, et cetera.

But, so like that is a good thing. So like, if you don't think that's a good thing, what actually is a solution? Should ste get as big as PepsiCo? Like, I don't think a lot of people have solutions. I think it's more of just flying the ocean. Yeah. Just wanting to be angry about something. Um, yeah. It's, it's a great point.

Um, and I, I think that like, the more that these products can get, can get out into the world, um, and grow and, you know, be, uh, available to more people, just the, the better it's gonna be. So what can we do to, [01:00:00] to make that happen? Mm-hmm. So what's got you guys excited over at Alex right now? You guys have the cultured cups coming out.

Yeah. What else you guys got going on? Oh, man. So, culture Cup, uh, we're very, very excited about that. Culture Cup is a probiotic ice cream, uh, made with our regenerative organic grass fed a two dairy each cup. It's, uh, under 160 calories under 10 grams of total sugar, uh, made with billions of probiotics, prebiotic fibers, and has a chocolate magic shell layer on top.

The, they're just like, it's really showing that you can have ice cream that tastes amazing and is better for you and the planet. Um, those just launch nationwide at Whole Foods, but you can find them rolling out at retailers like Wegmans, um, fresh Thyme. It'll be in select target stores in May. Um, so really excited about that.

Um. We also have a couple new of our Pint Flavors that just came out, um, at Whole Foods. So we have, uh, pistachio Crunch, which is actually a collab [01:01:00] with Graza Olive oil. Um, so it's a pistachio olive oil ice cream with, uh, dark chocolate flakes and Candi pistachios. Um, and then brown butter peach cobbler, which is a brown butter ice cream with pist, uh, with a peach swirl and, uh, oat cookie crumble pieces.

So that's super exciting. Um, and just, you know, continuing to grow into more stores and grow the business and, and see more people really, um, discovering the products, um, and just like kind of buying into what we're trying to create in the world. Um, so yeah, we're, we're very excited about what's to come, man.

So much amazing stuff going on too. Thanks. I'd have to be, I would've to imagine. It's really exciting doing everything you guys are doing, releasing these new flavors, these new skews. On the back of like the Make America Healthy again movement where there's more people that are interested in regenerative, regenerative than ever before.

That has been a really, uh, cool thing to see this larger shift within our country around evaluating [01:02:00] the choices that we're making, um, with our food and, and what we're buying in stores. Um, and so, you know, we're here to offer an ice cream that can, you know, for all the people who are looking for that we're there in the freezer for you.

Mm-hmm. Um, and if you're also just looking for a great tasting ice cream, we're there for you too. Check both. And, and we, yeah. And you may not know it, but you're doing something that's better for you and the planet. So, um, yeah. It's, it's very, uh, cool to see. You know, to go back to the beginning of our conversation like this, bet on better dairy and dairy in general, becoming a thing that people are gonna come back to and swing back to.

Um, and now seeing it actually play out and has been, you know, through the whole journey. There's a lot of a, like we talked about a lot of challenges, a lot of times where you have this crazy confidence in yourself, but you also have a lot of doubt and a lot of, like, am I, why [01:03:00] am I doing this? Like, what, why am I putting myself through this?

And it's really, really hard. Um, but to see these bets start to pay off has felt very validating, very rewarding. Um, and so I'm excited to see where that continues to go. Man, we're so pumped. We're, uh, we're just huge fans of the brand. It's great to build a friendships with you and have you on the show.

Yeah. And just excited to see, you know, what the next year plus holds for you guys. But thanks so much for doing this, man. Yeah, no, thank you for having me. A little die doey steak tonight too. Okay. Be there we go all up to this in for a treat. Yeah. Good way to celebrate. Cool. Thank you man. Awesome. Thanks.

Cool.